Magician Lord cart owner, please read and answer this

Ok guys, the time has come.

I've finally confirmed that two different romsets of Magician Lord actually made it into AES.

Big difference is in some gameplay tweaks, particularly the re-spawn pattern.

Version1 - Elta re-spawn in the very point he got obliterated, some invincibility time is given to him.

Version2 - fixed re-spawn points are set throughout the stages.

Another tweak seems to lie with the presence or absence of the story intro.

This differences are by no means triggered via bios, dip-switch, whatever.
Just as with Shock Troopers, that's the case of an actual game code revision.

This, I would be really grateful if anyone actually owning one (or more than one) Magician Lord home cart could post here and report about his own copy, following a similar format:

Game package: (JPN-carton, JPN-plastic, US/EURO)
Game revision: (1 or 2, following the given naming)

Also, please let me know about the intro: is it in you own copy?

Thanks in advance to anyone who will be kind enough to contribute to this thread.

US - version 2

heh, you didn´t knew that?

and thats not the only game that it happens: burning fight, sengoku, ninja combat from the top of my head...

I came into conclusion that SNK 1st run of games with rental purposes: played the same as arcade version without difficulty change support.

Later when it was decided to sell it to final customer SNK tweaked the program run in the new batch of games so more could be done with them. Difficulty settings etc...

Most noticeable change is magician lord with intro, new lifebar and no re-spawn. Some other games just got a difficulty selection screen.

All these where actual changes in the game code.

So does the 2 versions of Shock Troopers btw, there are 2 programs revisions for that game, no way you can change it in bios.

I always wondered about this with some games. I am beginning to think that there is also a slight different version of Ninja Combat.

It might just be that I have a wonky kinda cart for my AES. It tends to bug up if you use unibios cheats, like the sound going out on a certain stage when using them.

metallizer said:

heh, you didn´t knew that?

and thats not the only game that it happens: burning fight, sengoku, ninja combat from the top of my head...

I came into conclusion that SNK 1st run of games with rental purposes: played the same as arcade version without difficulty change support.

Later when it was decided to sell it to final customer SNK tweaked the program run in the new batch of games so more could be done with them. Difficulty settings etc...

Most noticeable change is magician lord with intro, new lifebar and no re-spawn. Some other games just got a difficulty selection screen.

All these where actual changes in the game code.

So does the 2 versions of Shock Troopers btw, there are 2 programs revisions for that game, no way you can change it in bios.

Click to expand...

All of this I know, but is what I'm trying to confirm.

Having confirmed data is quite different that just 'knowing about'.

Your supposition was also mine. Yet, the fact that I confirmed both versions of Magician Lord in US cart format kind of slash it (rental-only released were actually Japan only).

This thread is to try and get some more accurate readings and figure about the matter.

(Yes, the case of Shock Troopers is quite possible the most documented one, but that's MVS-only to begin with...)

SNKNostalgia said:

I always wondered about this with some games. I am beginning to think that there is also a slight different version of Ninja Combat.

It might just be that I have a wonky kinda cart for my AES. It tends to bug up if you use unibios cheats, like the sound going out on a certain stage when using them.

Click to expand...

since you have an unibios do a crc check on the roms and compare it to the mame romset.

Shito said:

All of this I know, but is what I'm trying to confirm.

Having confirmed data is quite different that just 'knowing about'.

Your supposition was also mine. Yet, the fact that I confirmed both versions of Magician Lord in US cart format kind of slash it (rental-only released were actually Japan only).

This thread is to try and get some more accurate readings and figure about the matter.

(Yes, the case of Shock Troopers is quite possible the most documented one, but that's MVS-only to begin with...)

Click to expand...

Thats the only good reason I can think off why the programmers revisited older games instead of working in newer games.

The fact that some older boards rolled into later production carts does no disqualify this theory, it´s a very possible case considering SNK, it would only be a surprise if you find carton box games with the revised program roms.

I have both copies of Magician Lord and Shock Troopers. Ver.2 for AES cart and Ver.1 for MVS cart. As for Shock Troopers, the mvs cart I have is different from the version included in the SNK Arcade Classics Vol.1 in that separate life bars are given for each member in team mode.

I thought it was the difference between the MVS and the homecart versions. MVS being the one with the shortest intro.

I have magician lord NEO AEP, NGH - 005, US version, plastic box, it has the "long intro" and when you die you appear at some specific places.

The intro of Sengoku MVS vs. homecart is different as well.

Thank you for anyone who's contributing!

SNKorSWM said:

I have both copies of Magician Lord and Shock Troopers. Ver.2 for AES cart and Ver.1 for MVS cart.

Click to expand...

Is your Magician Lord JPN-carton, JPN-plastic or US version?

Magician Lord JPN-plastic.

Set respawn points, intro, 3+3 lifebar.

Great initiative, Shito.

I wonder if there is some external way of recognizing what romset could wear the cart.

So (for Neo-Geo AES): Magician Lord, Burning Fight, Sengoku, Ninja Combat seems they have or could have different revisions in homecarts.

Would be good too to know all the other games differences besides Magician Lord.

Shito said:

Thank you for anyone who's contributing!



Is your Magician Lord JPN-carton, JPN-plastic or US version?

Click to expand...

Both my AES and MVS carts of Magician Lord are US versions.

caren103 said:

So (for Neo-Geo AES): Magician Lord, Burning Fight, Sengoku, Ninja Combat seems they have or could have different revisions in homecarts.

Click to expand...

Could you quote the exact difference of for those game?

As for Sengoku's intro, that's just a matter of AES or MVS bios, not a different romset.

I've also been reported of a different romset for Raguy.

metallizer said:

since you have an unibios do a crc check on the roms and compare it to the mame romset.

Click to expand...

My cart,which is romset 2 on mame reads 8E9FOADD.

Romset 1 reads B45FCFBF on Mame.

Since my cart is a freaked copy, I have no idea whether it is a cardboard box or vinyl box version. Funny how the older carts have old style resistors and uses ceramic capacitors.

Can somebody post pics showing the differences (cart, intro screen shots, etc....)?

I'm still confused...............

Recycled Cartridges

caren103 said:

Great initiative, Shito.

I wonder if there is some external way of recognizing what romset could wear the cart.

So (for Neo-Geo AES): Magician Lord, Burning Fight, Sengoku, Ninja Combat seems they have or could have different revisions in homecarts.

Would be good too to know all the other games differences besides Magician Lord.

Click to expand...

Yes, let us not forget Ghost Pilots.
(as of yet to be confirmed?)
set 1 has 10 credits per player per side
set 2 has 04 credits per player per side

Nam 1975 has endless continues (until the final boss confrontation)
but others have 10 continues? (again unconfirmed)

Lastly, when documenting which version of Magician Lord you have, in addition to country region, cardboard or plastic box, etc. please note the cartridge sticker!
Remember that SNK took unsold "overstock" of Japan cartridges and slapped English stickers right on top of the Japanese stickers on the carts.
(many carts have this. just look CLOSELY at your cart stickers)

Also, I remember very clearly Chad telling me about World Heroes 1.
A BIG glitch was discovered with the character Brocken in the initial MVS release. His low kick (when used quickly and repeatedly) was unblockable and after the 4th or 5th kick it would "suck" the entire life bar of the opponent to empty! He told me that this was reported and removed from the second run of the cartridges.

Perhaps the JAPAN WH1 home carts and maybe the first batch of USA WH1 home carts still used that first run rom set?

Great work on this project Shito. Keep it up!
Regards...

Shito said:

Could you quote the exact difference of for those game?

As for Sengoku's intro, that's just a matter of AES or MVS bios, not a different romset.

I've also been reported of a different romset for Raguy.

Click to expand...

Hi Shito.

No, I only sumed it up what had been told by metallizer.

In Snes carts with different game revisions, I've been told it could be known by a LETTER in the sticker at the back of the cart, next to the numbers on it (NO LETTER=1ST version; A letter=2nd version; B letter=3rd version; etc.).

I wonder if it's some chance somewhere in a homecart game package or sticker it is a letter or number depending on which version it holds, although reading the refurbishing of carts by SNK, it seems complicated.

SuperGun said:

Perhaps the JAPAN WH1 home carts and maybe the first batch of USA WH1 home carts still used that first run rom set?

Click to expand...

the homecart release was months away from the mvs version, sure it got the corrected version by the time those were made.

Lets not mix up MVS revisions with homecarts that exist in different revisions.

The majority of the neo geo catalog got small revision in the mvs code during their production time but very few carts got revisions in their homecart format.

This is what I actually tested:

Burning Fight:
homecart romset has a difficulty selection screen (easy, normal, hard, mvs)
Version I have: Japanese old style plastic box (carton box height) with arcade romset.

King of Monsters:
homecart romset has a difficulty selection screen (easy, normal, hard, mvs)
Version I have: Dogtag release with homecart romset, no relabel.

Magician Lord:
homecart romset has new intro + re-spawn points + new energy bar
Version I have: none (actually the CD release)

Ninja Combat:
I´m pretty sure I briefly had a US homecart with difficulty selection screen (easy, normal, hard, mvs). ????Unconfirmed????
Version I have: Carton box with arcade romset

Sengoku:
homecart romset has a difficulty selection screen (easy, normal, hard, mvs)
Version I have: Carton box with arcade romset

SuperGun said:

Nam 1975 has endless continues (until the final boss confrontation)
but others have 10 continues? (again unconfirmed)

Lastly, when documenting which version of Magician Lord you have, in addition to country region, cardboard or plastic box, etc. please note the cartridge sticker!
Remember that SNK took unsold "overstock" of Japan cartridges and slapped English stickers right on top of the Japanese stickers on the carts.
(many carts have this. just look CLOSELY at your cart stickers)

Click to expand...

Both of my US version AES Magician Lord and NAM-1975 carts have one sticker over another. The NAM-1975 game had 5 continues for each player.

Both AES Magician Lord carts I've owned (US and JPN Plastic) were version 1.

Hi again all!

So, it seems that the majority rule hints us to the idea that SNK first released a first version romset for MVS and AES-rental (JPN, carton box of the first *12* titles,) games, and then revised the romset for any MVS revision or AES-consumer (JPN and US, plastic) purpose.

We're going to call ROMSET1 and ROMSET2, ok?

ROMSET1 is of course the original, both arcade and AES-rental version.
ROMSET2 is the one trimmed for AES-consumer release.

Neverless, I do emphasize the fact I witnessed both 1 and 2 in different US AES carts for Magician Lord.

Now, we have to remember the US AES distribution started *before* the JPN re-launch of the system for consumer sale purpose. The JPN relaunch was in fact on 1991/7/1, the US launch for the AES was indeed either in 1990/12 or 1991/1.

Thus, it's easy to guess the US production of the very first batch of AES titles still had the original ROMSET.

What would be interesting to find should be:

1) Any JPN carton box game with ROMSET2
2) Any JPN plastic game still with ROMSET1
3) Any MVS cart with ROMSET2, proving the revised romset also made it into MVS format.

Neverless, here is a collated list of the matter:


Magician Lord:
ROMSET1: AES mode has instant re-spawn, 2-2 energy bars
ROMSET2: AES mode has set re-spawn points, narrative intro, 3+3 energy bars
(note: I wonder if the two romsets also differs in arcade mode, were the differences may also occur according to dipswitch settings)
(xiao_haozi has a ROMSET2 US cart)
(holyver has ROMSET2 US cart)
(SNKforSWM has a ROMSET2 US cart)
(SuperDealLite has a ROMSET2 JPN-plastic cart)
(Micheal_Yagami has both US and JPN-plastic (!!!) ROMSET1 version)


Ninja Combat
ROMSET1: AES mode has no difficulty selection
ROMSET2: AES mode has difficulty selection?
(note: TBC, Metallizer has a JPN carton box with ROMSET1)


NAM-1975?
Different number of continues is AES mode?
(TBC)


Raguy
ROMSET1: AES mode has no difficulty selection
ROMSET2: AES mode has difficulty selection
(note: this is a JPN carton box only game)


King of the Monsters
ROMSET1: AES mode has no difficulty selection?
ROMSET2: AES mode has difficulty selection
(note: this is a JPN carton box only game)


Sengoku Denshou
ROMSET1: AES mode has no difficulty selection?
ROMSET2: AES mode has difficulty selection (easy, normal, hard, mvs)
(note: this is a JPN carton box only game. Metallizer has a JPN carton box with ROMSET1)


Ghost Pilots
ROMSET1: AES mode has 10 credits per player per side?
ROMSET2: AES mode has 4 credits per player per side?
(note: this is a JPN carton box only game)


Burning Fight
ROMSET1: AES mode has no difficulty selection
ROMSET2: AES mode has difficulty selection (easy, normal, hard, mvs)
(note: this is a JPN plastic box only game, no rental version was ever produce by SNK. Metallizer has a JPN plastic box with ROMSET1)


Let's keep adding and confirm data, guys!

Ok I have:

JPN Raguy (carton), no difficulty selections, unlimited credits.
JPN Sengoku Denshou (carton), no difficulty selections, limited credits but no credit counter (I think you get about 10?)

us/euro

version2 (with into)

Was Burning Fight only released in the taller plastic box that has the same height as the carton boxes or did it got a run in the standard old style plastic box as well?

US - Version 1