Why does nobody like SS3?

tsukaesugi

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Just got back from Akihabara (the electronics district of Tokyo), where I picked up a copy of SS3 for the AES. For years now, I've just been playing the Saturn version, so I'm happy to finally have the homecart in my possession.

I bought a bottle of sake to celebrate, I'm going to get drunk and spend the next couple hours playing. Hopefully after doing so, I'll be able to add some of my own input to this thread...
 

JHendrix

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kernow:
fan-tastic.. downloading now

mr hendrix?


*runs off to find more*
Thanks for the link, it is much appreciated. :)

Got some SS3 move lists online today, gonna bring it with me to our pow-wow we're having later today, along with the Neo and a few carts.

Hopefully we'll get some quality time in before the alcohol gets to some of the others and they end up screaming NAKA-RU-RU every time we're at the character select screen (long story). Which then turns the match into Nakaruru vs. Nakaruru, which in turn makes me wish one of the characters had some old fashioned gun as a weapon so I could shoot that fucking bird out of the sky....

Peace

JHendrix
 

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One thing that helps against the constant CPU blocking is to learn how to pressure the CPU to its limit.

Using Hanzo, perform a bakuenryu that will at least reach the CPU, the CPU will either jump or block it. If it jumps, go underneat the CPU and hit it right before it lands. If it blocks, gaurd crush and score even more damage.

A similar technique can be achieved with Galford. Plasma Blade and then a poppy attack. If using bust, you have the most damaging anti-air attack with fwd+AB. If I can get the CPU to jump at me, it's like a heartbeat, fwd+AB and the CPU will eat it. Also, if using Galford, know that unarmed, he has one of the most powerful special moves (fwd+AB, lightning punch). Try to gaurd crush, close B from behind, fwd+AB. 80%.

Using Galford or Hanzo, I can at least ensure that I'll see Zankuro at level 8.

Using Genjuro, in slash, know and use his command throw (RUC+C). Any time the CPU comes near you, RUC+C. If you jump in, jump in with D, then RUC+C. This is a tick throw and it works quite well. Think Clark. Of course, using Genj, if you can get behind the enemy, you've won the match. Just do the infinite. Against the CPU in latter levels, all moral grounds against doing the infinite subside because the CPU is just very very good.

Using Haohmaru, in bust, the main thing is to always se QCF+D, and never use QCF_A,B, or C, as it's too slow. QCF+D will open almost any combo you can imagine. From the back, it's the opening for his infinite. From the front, against many humans, it could be the opening for an infinite (although it's not really).

For Amakusa, you have the single shortest and most deadly combo in the game. Full pow, gaurd crush, close C (from behind), desperation move. 100% damage. Sure, Amakusa sucks, but he can literally kick anyone into a dizzy within 3 seconds. I'm still not using him.

SSIII is in my home system right now. Been playing it for a few days.
 

rugal2000

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Posted by wasabi:Are you fucking kidding? Graphically SSIII has better sprites than SSI or SSII. Moreover, color depth was visibly improved from SSII to SSIII, and comparing SSIII to SSI is like comparing SSFIIX to SFIIWW - COME ON! If you think it looks like shit compared to SSI and SSII, then I think you have a screw loose.


I just cant in clear conscience say that samurai shodown 3 looks like anything other than shit.And that would be on a stand alone basis let alone comparing it to sam 1 and 2.

I do not see a single stage in sam 3 that compares with the majesty and sheer freakin awesomeness of charlottes stage in sam 2, or for that matter haomarus or Siegers.......and I could go on.

Plus the battles are more balanced and the story lines superior in sam 1, 2 and 4.

Its just my opinion, and I certainly respect yours. But I do recall most game mags and my mates who had the neo back in the mid 90's thinking much the same thing.


But I guess I am wrong since a lot more people here like it
 

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rugal2000:
Posted by wasabi:Are you fucking kidding? Graphically SSIII has better sprites than SSI or SSII. Moreover, color depth was visibly improved from SSII to SSIII, and comparing SSIII to SSI is like comparing SSFIIX to SFIIWW - COME ON! If you think it looks like shit compared to SSI and SSII, then I think you have a screw loose.


I just cant in clear conscience say that samurai shodown 3 looks like anything other than shit.And that would be on a stand alone basis let alone comparing it to sam 1 and 2.

I do not see a single stage in sam 3 that compares with the majesty and sheer freakin awesomeness of charlottes stage in sam 2, or for that matter haomarus or Siegers.......and I could go on.

Plus the battles are more balanced and the story lines superior in sam 1, 2 and 4.

Its just my opinion, and I certainly respect yours. But I do recall most game mags and my mates who had the neo back in the mid 90's thinking much the same thing.


But I guess I am wrong since a lot more people here like it
You are wrong. the only balanced SS game was 1. SS II - Ukyo, Gen-An (an infinite AND air priority?!) vs. the weakest Nakoruru ever.
SS III - Shizumaru, Rimururu vs. Amakusa
SS IV - Bust Galford, Slash Sogetsu vs. slow defenseless Gaira.

Moreover, Charlotte's stage from SS1 looks dated now. There is no majesty left in it. The stages I listed above have surpassed all the previous works. Of the previous stages, I'd only commend Gen-An's, Mizuki's, Seiger's, Hanzo's, and Nicotine's. But I wouldn't say they are more interesting than those in SSIII. Why? Color depth, action on the screen, layout of breakable items, matched with the music. Very few stages in the videogame world can even approach the complexities of Basara's stage in SSIII, where sometimes, the best strategy involves not breaking the screens.

And the truth is, game mags almost always review games that are new. And new games that stray from the origin are most often bashed. But retrospect is what matters. I love SSI~III. Initially I also loved SSIV - now it's just tough love, like what you have for a retarded child. Honest and deep retrospect have given me a POV that I guess I can't just offer to others to inherit. Only a few of you are willing to grasp it.

Here's something to try out:
Play SSIII, use Hanzo, throw a bakuenryu, dash forward, desperation.

Play SSIV and do the same thing.

What about Genjuro's Inoshikachou? Why is it missing 2 parts in IV that were added in 3?

Which feels better? Which game actually allows more flexibility for combos without the CD dail-a-combo initiator?

Mind you - SSI combos were very short. Jump in attack, low weak attack, special. That's the extent of Dan Hibiki's combo ability.

In SSII, combos didn't improve much. But re-dizzies made it interesting. Using Ukyo, a jump in AB, Close AB, QCF+CD, would allow you to do the same combo twice.

In SSIII, you could perform mad combos. Just using Haohmaru, jump in deep C, close B, QCF+D, UC+D, UC+C. You just linked 3 special moves - from the front even!

THEN in SSIV, the concept of combos was replaced by the CD system and a few "set combos", like Bust Kazuki's and I guess Bust Jubei's (although his relies on the opponent being brain dead). It's like they took the control sceme and made it stupid enough for the novice gamers of 1993 again. Capcom would never get away with that for Street Fighter. I guess SNK fans are just reflex challenged.

What I'm getting at is that the play system in SSIII was the pinnacle. The high point. And then suddenly, it's like, I don't know, Ted McGinley signed on to the cast to play the part of Kazuki and as fate would have it, the series went down, not to really get cool again until Asura Zanmaden.

I don't care if someone thinks SSIII isn't the best game on the system, but to say that SSIV is better than III - I just can't see an ounce of intelligence in that statement. You can't back it up.
 

SSS

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SS3 is by far the best looking SS game on Neo Geo. Ukyo's stage on the raft floating down the river at night with corpses floating by. Nakoruru's stage is beautiful. It's like the background artists in SS4 were taking a nap.

I also like the fact that each character has their own command for their DM. The fact that SS3 is one of the more difficult SS of the four, it makes mastering it so much more interesting. I have yet to search for the cart version, but the Neo CD version is amazing. I don't see any frames of animation missing. All background components seem to be intact. The musical score on the CD version is fucking amazing.

I do like SSIV better though, think it has to do with the dark atmosphere. SS3 would be my third favorite, SS2, SS4, SS3.
 

tsukaesugi

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tsukaesugi:
Just got back from Akihabara (the electronics district of Tokyo), where I picked up a copy of SS3 for the AES. For years now, I've just been playing the Saturn version, so I'm happy to finally have the homecart in my possession.

I bought a bottle of sake to celebrate, I'm going to get drunk and spend the next couple hours playing. Hopefully after doing so, I'll be able to add some of my own input to this thread...
Jush got back from drinking and playing my sake...

I mean drinking my sake... (hic)

Firsht Impreshuns are... (hic hic)


Seriously, first impressions...

a) high damage means a lot more double KO's; five in the last hour, more than I've ever experienced in any game

b) is it just me, or after selecting 'slash' or 'bust', does selecting 'beginner' not only give you extra autoguard, but also set the AI a little lower?

c)_tooshort_ was right, the Saturn port was far inferior sound/ sprite size wise
 

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SamuraiShodownSensei:
I do like SSIV better though, think it has to do with the dark atmosphere. SS3 would be my third favorite, SS2, SS4, SS3.
SSIV is dark, but it's thrown off by shit like "This place reeks of evil...and gym socks!" and anything about Tam Tam.

The darkness in SSIV really comes off as an excuse not to flesh out the BGs. The backgrounds that they borrowed from previous games looked a lot better in the previous games, and would still add to the darkness.

Namely:
Ukyo's stage, the beach at night
Genjuro's stage, with the storm and the children playing, only to be dragged away by Okasan.
The volcano - just badly drawn in IV
the bamboo forest - lacks the atmospheric effects from III
Zankuro's stage - just doesn't feel as right as before. more dry the second time around.

Had they imported the stages and improved them, instead of cropping shit around and stretching existing stages, while maintaining the color depth, I feel SSIV would still be as "dark" as it turned out. But I've heard people call SSIII dark.

The whole thing about character matchups or rivalries also let me down.

Ok - long time SS fans had to feel the same way when finding that Galford's story in IV had nothing to do with Nakoruru. COME ON!

And Gaira with Basara? What a dumb match.

Hanzo really should have had Amakusa a second time - the non-blue Amakusa.

And the endings - Hanzo's ending was balls. Complete balls. It sucked. "This father will... This father will..." Fucking complete your sentence. I thought ninjas were supposed to be smart and quick. Hanzo just managed to get slower and stupider by SSIV. Although I do like his UC+C in slash.

Anyhow, I can't stand to play SSIV anymore. I mean, sure, versus, because it's fun to make people upset against Sogetsu. But not playing by myself. It's just not rewarding. There's no sense of accomplishment.
 

tsukaesugi

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EvilWasabi:
The darkness in SSIV really comes off as an excuse not to flesh out the BGs. The backgrounds that they borrowed from previous games looked a lot better in the previous games, and would still add to the darkness.
The fact that the castle always remained in the background of all the different stages was a very nice touch though.

I agree with you though, SS3 was darker BG wise.

Even cute little Rimururu's stage had a miasma of frozen darkness to it.
 

rugal2000

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EW I said charlottes stage in sam 2 not sam 1!

I just think that whole mural scene depicting the impending boss as somehow more of a foe than the rest of the cast put together is simply unparalleled.

And its not just the painting that scores points in my book, its the historical accuracy, the gold furnishings and the quaint 16th century european music that accompanies all of it.

Add to this the siegar stage of Sam2 depicting the knights of templar massed en rank, and the awesome music which builds into a crescendo as the lighting flashes.........and you have an epic, my friend.

Still its all in the eye of the beholder and consensus taste does seem to indicate Im in the minority.
 

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tsukaesugi:
EvilWasabi:
The darkness in SSIV really comes off as an excuse not to flesh out the BGs. The backgrounds that they borrowed from previous games looked a lot better in the previous games, and would still add to the darkness.
The fact that the castle always remained in the background of all the different stages was a very nice touch though.

I agree with you though, SS3 was darker BG wise.

Even cute little Rimururu's stage had a miasma of frozen darkness to it.
if you pay attention, there's snow fall animation in that stage.

There were a lot of consistencies in SSIV. But part of me feels that no matter what, teh game was just not well planned. Also note the timing of the game - end of 1996. Like they had to get it out because SS64 was on the table waiting to be finished, SSRPG was under development for over a year, and they needed more man power on other projects.

After the release of SSIII, the amount of games made on the neo by SNK was huge. Can you imagine the strain on a company having to release SSIV after AoF 3, Real Bout FF, KoF 96, Kizuna Encounter, and help with Ninja Masters - all of which came out before SSIV - all except Ninja Masters, revolutionizing their series. And then SSIV is introduced as a "throw-back" to SSI... I can see it possible that they just couldn't finish it on time and rushed out the BGs and didn't fully play test it.

That's definitely the case right now at Playmore. Everythign is on a very limited budget it seems. Such that they cannot afford to get back Senri Kita.

That reminds me...

I should make a message out to playmore to request they re-acquire Senri Kita for the upcoming SS game. When I write it out, I'll just post it here for people to cut and paste into their emails and send to playmore. Probably the best idea for a petition in a long time.
 

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rugal2000:
EW I said charlottes stage in sam 2 not sam 1!

I just think that whole mural scene depicting the impending boss as somehow more of a foe than the rest of the cast put together is simply unparalleled.

And its not just the painting that scores points in my book, its the historical accuracy, the gold furnishings and the quaint 16th century european music that accompanies all of it.

Add to this the siegar stage of Sam2 depicting the knights of templar massed en rank, and the awesome music which builds into a crescendo as the lighting flashes.........and you have an epic, my friend.

Still its all in the eye of the beholder and consensus taste does seem to indicate Im in the minority.
I don't disagree that those stages are awesome. Although the knights mentioned are typcal Japanese fantasy knights - not templars, which had been routed for roughly 400 years before SSII took place. Although you gotta admit, De Molay was a very interesting guy, and it would be cool to see him in a game as a Templar knight. However, the knights in Seiger's stage are really just fantasy knights more likened to the Emporors Imperial Elite Guard in Star Wars, eh.

I also liked Charlottes stage in both games, but I still feel it just doesn't look as sharp as the stages in III. The mural was a great idea, and the story behind it was very cool and not matched in either of the latter games as a background with a story. Part of that comes from the fact that in SSIV, characters don't have backgrounds assigned to them. Who knows - maybe there couldhave been more a story. Or you could reference SSIII to find out which stage belongs t who.
 

SSS

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Sogetsu is a major flaw in ss4. His diving throw from the air, to his "water spout" attack is enough to piss off any 2p opponent. But the fact that kazuki is such a great character, out weighs any flaw with Sogetsu in my mind.

I like the way Kazuki can summon those three fireballs to add power to his moves. But the fact that only two of the three can be used at once is somewhat puzzling. My only gripe with Kazuki in SS4 is his DM. I like his bust DM much better than his slash, but I don't really like bust kazuki. They actually switched the DM's in SS2 for NGPC if I recall correctly. I just wish they would have done that to begin with in ss4.
 

tsukaesugi

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Who was 'Senri Kita'?

The only names I remember from any SNK credits are 'Kong Kuwata' and 'Takapyon' (if I remember correctly..)
 

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SamuraiShodownSensei:
I like his bust DM much better than his slash, but I don't really like bust kazuki. They actually switched the DM's in SS2 for NGPC if I recall correctly. I just wish they would have done that to begin with in ss4.
Actually, I think that's SS!, not SS!2.

In SS!2, bust Kazuki plays as Enja Kazuki (Kazuki possessed by the fire god Enja), and has the variable DM.

I also feel that Kazuki is a huge saving grace for SSIV. Out of all the characters, I'll always pick him first. Very fun. But that's it. Part of it is that his move motions make sense for him. You know, his DM is defensive, and can be performed from a defensive position. Bust Ukyo's and Hanzo's are offensive and must be performed from a defensive position? Forget it.

However, I play Kazuki in bust. His special combo just makes my day. Also dig the exploding pants, which really should have made it over to the SS 64 series.
 

Takumaji

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tsukaesugi:
Who was 'Senri-Kita'?
A character designer who did (most of) the Samsho chara design.

He still runs his homepage, haven't bookmarked it, but you can find it if you look for 'snk "senri kita" homepage' in Google.
 

kernow

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<a href="http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/9305/eiji.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/9305/eiji.html</a>
 

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Takumaji:
tsukaesugi:
Who was 'Senri-Kita'?
A character designer who did (most of) the Samsho chara design.

He still runs his homepage, haven't bookmarked it, but you can find it if you look for 'snk "senri kita" homepage' in Google.
Senri Kita is a female I believe.

I'd marry her, but since she refused to even sign my サムライスピリッツ剣客 book, then I figure she'd reject my marriage proposal too.

<small>[ April 12, 2003, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: EvilWasabi ]</small>
 

kernow

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Actually progressing with Bust haoh, seems I prefer him on bust.

ff, B, dp D, dp A..

I'm getting there .. :) Enjoying it considerably more too
 

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kernow:
Actually progressing with Bust haoh, seems I prefer him on bust.

ff, B, dp D, dp A..

I'm getting there .. :) Enjoying it considerably more too
ff, B, QCF D
repeat, or attempt to mix in his DM.
 

kernow

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QCF D is the dirt fling yeah? I haven't played with that much..

this shoulder barge is ruling my world at present though,

and yeah, I haven't chained the damn DM on the end yet.. :)
 

tsukaesugi

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<img src="http://www.planetps2.com/mmcafe/pics00/midthumbs/snkillust3.jpg" alt=" - " />

OK, found some info about 'Senri Kita', thanks guys.

Wasn't she credited as 'Kita-py' or something?
 

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tsukaesugi:
<img src="http://www.planetps2.com/mmcafe/pics00/midthumbs/snkillust3.jpg" alt=" - " />

OK, found some info about 'Senri Kita', thanks guys.

Wasn't she credited as 'Kita-py' or something?
Not sure about Kitapy. She currently uses the nickname Kuromaguro on her bulletin board.
 
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