Why haven't any of you doll fuckers started a Game of Thrones topic?

[Ip Man]

since we're talking about the books, i'm going to ask how well does the tv series follow them?. really well?, a lord of the rings kind of thing?, or loosely based on?.

the reason i ask is because things i read and told are always very different. some say the whole thing is based on the first book alone. and some say it's not based on the books at all. were as others say it follows the books really well.

 

[Taiso]

since we're talking about the books, i'm going to ask how well does the tv series follow them?. really well?, a lord of the rings kind of thing?, or loosely based on?.

the reason i ask is because things i read and told are always very different. some say the whole thing is based on the first book alone. and some say it's not based on the books at all. were as others say it follows the books really well.

It's about 60 percent accurate in my opinion. There are significant deviations but you have to be a super hardcore ASOIF nerd to get upset about them. The sixth and seventh seasons are the biggest spiritual departures, largely because it's all material that hasn't been established in the novels yet.

And the mishandling of Jon Snow in the TV show is almost inexcusable IMO. But that is an essay in and of itself.

 

[HDRchampion]

I really Jamie's character, how far off is he from the books?

 

[Ip Man]

It's about 60 percent accurate in my opinion. There are significant deviations but you have to be a super hardcore ASOIF nerd to get upset about them. The sixth and seventh seasons are the biggest spiritual departures, largely because it's all material that hasn't been established in the novels yet.

And the mishandling of Jon Snow in the TV show is almost inexcusable IMO. But that is an essay in and of itself.

john snow is way better in the book?. he's like my favourite character in the show. if he's being misrepresented in the show, then i can't wait to find out how he is in the books. but i guess this is all good because it gives me a reason to read the books. i don't want to read something where i know what exactly is going to happen.

 

[jro]

Jason Conception on The Ringer goes a little into the possibility that Arya is already using Littlefinger's face to test Sansa's loyalty. That would be dumb as shit, which is partially why I fully expect it to happen.

 

[LoneSage]

the last anybody knows of him, he was lost while ranging north beyond the Wall.

You mean pre-books, right?

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Brynden_Rivers

I wore many names when I was quick, but even I had a mother, and the name she gave me at her breast was Brynden.

- the three-eyed crow to Meera Reed

I really Jamie's character, how far off is he from the books?

In the books when he found out Cersei cheated on him and then she needed his help when she was imprisoned by the High Sparrow, his character diverged greatly from the show in fitting with his redemption arc.

 

[evil wasabi]

I really Jamie's character, how far off is he from the books?

I don't think he's far off. Main difference is that he doesn't travel with Bronn as much as Ilyn Payne.

 

[Taiso]

You mean pre-books, right?

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Brynden_Rivers


- the three-eyed crow to Meera Reed

I'm aware of this quote but I think it's a red herring Martin put in there to lead people astray. Many people have the same name in ASOIF and I'm not really embracing the idea of Bloodraven as 3ER. Martin has flat out stated that Coldhands is not Benjan Stark, but he's going to be someone important.

Unless 3ER is warging into Coldhands somehow.

I'm more of the opinion that 3ER is something different and that Coldhands is Brynden Rivers converted into a White Walker but somehow with the capacity to retain his identity.

 

[Taiso]

In the books, Jamie walked away from Cersei when she was a prisoner at the Great Sept. He was growing disenchanted with her by that point and he was also feeling shame over all of the underhanded things he'd done as a Kingsguard. Brienne reminded him of his knightly responsibilities and that, in addition to the scene in AFFC when he's looking through the book with the records of everything the Kingsguard have done and he realizes he's done nothing noteworthy except for stab a king in the back, sort of sets him on a path of redemption.

That is where book Jamie and TV Jamie branch off, but I think Jamie will still redeem himself in the TV show somehow before it's all said and done.

 

[LoneSage]

I'm aware of this quote but I think it's a red herring Martin put in there to lead people astray. Many people have the same name in ASOIF and I'm not really embracing the idea of Bloodraven as 3ER. Martin has flat out stated that Coldhands is not Benjan Stark, but he's going to be someone important.

Unless 3ER is warging into Coldhands somehow.

I'm more of the opinion that 3ER is something different and that Coldhands is Brynden Rivers converted into a White Walker but somehow with the capacity to retain his identity.

OK I understand you now. I think it would be shitty of Martin to somehow not make Bloodraven the Three-Eyed Crow when there are so many hints that he is (which can only be gathered if the reader has read the Dunk and Egg stories):

-His name's Brynden and was in the Night's Watch judging by his tattered clothes

-"How many eyes does Lord Bloodraven have? the riddle ran. A thousand eyes, and one." - this is what Dunk is thinking during The Mystery Knight. Bloodraven is known for having a thousand eyes, and one. And here's what Leaf says to Bran: "He has a thousand eyes and one, but there is much to watch. One day you will know."

-He has a winestain birthmark on his neck, as Bloodraven did.

-He has white skin, long white hair and one red eye, as Bloodraven did.

-3EC says he had a brother who he loved (probably Daeron, could be Daemon if GRRM wanted to be a little more tragic), a brother he hated (definitely Bittersteel), and a woman he desired (probably his lover Shiera).

-Leaf says that he has lived past his mortal span, and BR would be 125 years old.

So unless there's another ancient one-eyed albino with a winestain birthmark on his neck named Brynden who used to be in the Night's Watch...that's one hell of a red herring, Taiso! Especially considering some hints aren't in the main series. But I like reading about any ASOIAF theories, no matter how outrageous. I started a re-read in July, and with the new season out it's good to talk about this again with people.

 

[evil wasabi]

Reddit downvote.

 

[LoneSage]

https://np.reddit.com/user/evil_wasabi
https://np.reddit.com/user/uncle_charlie
https://np.reddit.com/user/GRIZZLYKINGMERCX99

aww shucks. guess I'll have to keep on guessing.

john snow is way better in the book?.

I think the worst part of the show in terms of Jon is the lack of Ghost. There are other differences with Jon but Ghost not being by Jon's side 24/7 is the biggest offender. In the book there's a deep connection with the Stark kids and their direwolves. Just shoving Ghost aside in the show to cut down on the budget is bad.

 

[Igakajook]

So there's a reason we don't see Benjan die, then?

 

[evil wasabi]

https://np.reddit.com/user/evil_wasabi
https://np.reddit.com/user/uncle_charlie
https://np.reddit.com/user/GRIZZLYKINGMERCX99

aww shucks. guess I'll have to keep on guessing.



I think the worst part of the show in terms of Jon is the lack of Ghost. There are other differences with Jon but Ghost not being by Jon's side 24/7 is the biggest offender. In the book there's a deep connection with the Stark kids and their direwolves. Just shoving Ghost aside in the show to cut down on the budget is bad.

I don't think you will simply guess it. But here's a hint: I am on the twin peaks and hearthstone subs. Fuck the berserk sub though. People there are shit.

 

[Taiso]

So there's a reason we don't see Benjan die, then?

Well, we can't really say whether it's a noble death offscreen or if he'll somehow escape and reappear. But Benjan's been able to conveniently and mysteriously show up precisely when he was needed to bail out a character in desperate need of rescue, so there's no reason to suddenly assume that his valiant 'sacrifice' is the last we'll see of him. I mean, he could be gone forever now, but would it really surprise you if he managed to somehow get away so that we can learn where he's been and what he's been doing?

 

[Splitt442]

Well, we can't really say whether it's a noble death offscreen or if he'll somehow escape and reappear. But Benjan's been able to conveniently and mysteriously show up precisely when he was needed to bail out a character in desperate need of rescue, so there's no reason to suddenly assume that his valiant 'sacrifice' is the last we'll see of him. I mean, he could be gone forever now, but would it really surprise you if he managed to somehow get away so that we can learn where he's been and what he's been doing?

For what it's worth, it's been established that Benjen can communicate with the 3 eyed raven.

 

[evil wasabi]

Syrio is also alive and lives with Benjen. They have a afghan-bedlington terrier mutt together, and a treasure trove of braavosi wine, pilfered from Robert's cellar. One time they gave some wine to the three eyed raven, and due to mass alcohol ratio, it got so drunk that it green saw back in time to the event where the children made the white walkers, and warged into the first one, and has been on a drunken rage for thousands of years since, although in real time, it's been like 5 minutes, which for anyone who has experienced LSD would make perfect sense.

 

[LoneSage]

Syrio is Jaqen is Benjen

 

[Igakajook]

Well, we can't really say whether it's a noble death offscreen or if he'll somehow escape and reappear. But Benjan's been able to conveniently and mysteriously show up precisely when he was needed to bail out a character in desperate need of rescue, so there's no reason to suddenly assume that his valiant 'sacrifice' is the last we'll see of him. I mean, he could be gone forever now, but would it really surprise you if he managed to somehow get away so that we can learn where he's been and what he's been doing?

I guess I wouldn't be surprised, no. And I don't really think the show makers are going to want to pass on the opportunity to exploit the mystery surrounding Benjan. I am worried, however, that lazy writing will step in at some point and answer ALL of the show's mysteries just by having Bran explain them.

 

[jro]

So the delay between this week's season finale and the start of season 8 is likely going to be 18 months. That would be roughly February, 2019. It's like Benioff and Weiss are switching to GRRM time.

 

[evil wasabi]

I guess I wouldn't be surprised, no. And I don't really think the show makers are going to want to pass on the opportunity to exploit the mystery surrounding Benjan. I am worried, however, that lazy writing will step in at some point and answer ALL of the show's mysteries just by having Bran explain them.

You mean like Battlestar Galactica? That would be hilarious.

 

[Taiso]

I guess I wouldn't be surprised, no. And I don't really think the show makers are going to want to pass on the opportunity to exploit the mystery surrounding Benjan. I am worried, however, that lazy writing will step in at some point and answer ALL of the show's mysteries just by having Bran explain them.

Right now, the series is backed into a creative corner. If 3ER can facilitate all these things, why are all the characters discovering all of this stuff just now, on the eve of destruction? Because they needed to see it for themselves first? That's similar to how LOST ended, when it was discovered that the 'real' reason everyone was brought to the island was because Jacob needed someone to be a zookeeper for the black mist creature but they needed to be 'tested' first. It's not that it's a bad idea for a story, but it's clearly not part of the original intention because of how it's not even foreshadowed and just seems to come out of nowhere. GoT has done a better job than all that, but this is not the time to be using 3ER to grease the story's grinding gears for expediency's sake.

So many stories fuck up the ending, and it would be nice if HBO and D&D took a deep breath and labored to put as much effort into giving the climax and conclusion as much body as the earlier seasons. A sloppy rush to the finish is never the answer, but that's what it feels like is happening IMO.

EDIT: I'd say a rush job is the complete antithesis of the earlier seasons, when the law of unintended consequences felt palpable and lethal. It doesn't mean that the series is destined to disappoint from here on out. I just hope that they right the ship and dock it without wrecking the harbor in the process.

 

[Igakajook]

It doesn't mean that the series is destined to disappoint from here on out. I just hope that they right the ship and dock it without wrecking the harbor in the process.

I'm hoping for the same. And I really hope all of the problems that have surfaced more recently aren't all because the show moved beyond the story told in the books, but it sure seems that way. Do we know just how much of Martin's plans/outlines for future writings were passed to the showrunners? The way they seem to talk on the post-show analysis, they are making most of this up.

 

[NeoSneth]

they are just afraid to kill people. There's no time to build more characters.
I'm sure someone serious dies tomorrow just to keep it rollin.

 

[LoneSage]

I'm hoping for the same. And I really hope all of the problems that have surfaced more recently aren't all because the show moved beyond the story told in the books, but it sure seems that way. Do we know just how much of Martin's plans/outlines for future writings were passed to the showrunners? The way they seem to talk on the post-show analysis, they are making most of this up.

d and d have, supposedly, the sparksnotes for the series. like major events that are supposed to happen, including the ending.

NOW, how they get there is totally different.

in thelast book, stannis is stranded ina blizzard...i am not surprised he'd kill his kid to get out of it. but how's it happen. well, who knwos. and fuck george the fat fuck. made a great story and then got wrapped up in the fame surrounding it after it made it big.