Trump announces a troop withdrawl...

lithy

Most Prominent Member of Chat
20 Year Member
And on queue, both parties jump up and say we should instead be preparing an exit strategy, whatever is announced is always too abrupt, too poorly thought out, and a bad move for American leadership on an international stage (whatever that means).

More time, more delay, more presence of troops around the world.

When do endless wars end? There would be a power vacuum 10 years ago, 5 years ago, today, 5 years from now, 10 years from now. So what does it really matter?

Do these conflicts even register as wars for Americans?
 

mjmjr25

went home to be a family man
10 Year Member
I agree the pundits and politicians respond with this righteous vitriol while being taciturn up until a decision is made. It's a combination of maddening and sickening. Lipspeak garbage and/or populism. In this very specific case - it is disheartening the way it occurred.

Leaving is okay, but set up some recourse, a permanent no-fly zone, a UN peace keeping force...SOMETHING. To your point - that should have started day 1 with this president. Maybe it was thought out day 1 - if that's the case, it looks like he's allowing the Turks to make us make a choice, and he's choosing to back off...at the same time threatening to destroy their economy. The Turks are allies in name only. They've been on the opposite side of most geopolitical issues since end of cold war and are now just more open about it. I imagine Incirlik has an immense amount of value militarily to be allies of any type at this point.

To that end, while the Turks have openly disavowed the US and EU on most critical issues, the Kurds have been allies and in many cases when it wasn't their interest to do so, but only because we HAVE BEEN allies. They are not the only peoples without a country, but they are a peoples who has allied with us and us the consistently for 30+ years. It's sad to me this is the decision made.

Back away from North Korea and follow the will of South Korea. Leave if asked, do drills if asked, but follow their lead.
Back away from China trade and let ANY other country pick this fight. IP is being stolen from nearly all countries. We don't need to pick the fight, if you truly want an America First agenda.
Back away from Israel. Let Russia and India who Israel claims as allies come to their diplomatic or financial aid.

I can support any of those and many others, but this is one that strikes me as disgusting a decision as our government can make and I am embarrassed by it.
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
And on queue, both parties jump up and say we should instead be preparing an exit strategy, whatever is announced is always too abrupt, too poorly thought out, and a bad move for American leadership on an international stage (whatever that means).

More time, more delay, more presence of troops around the world.

When do endless wars end? There would be a power vacuum 10 years ago, 5 years ago, today, 5 years from now, 10 years from now. So what does it really matter?

Do these conflicts even register as wars for Americans?

When did you join ISIS?
 

lithy

Most Prominent Member of Chat
20 Year Member
When did you join ISIS?

lol fuck off with that shit. Although their technicals are pretty rad, right?

ISIS/ISIL only exists because of another endless conflict courtesy of the United States in Iraq anyway. Tell me how ISIS would realistically attack this country before I worry about considering them an 'enemy'.

The US has done enough for Muslim extremist recruiting in the last 20 years, maybe we take a break for a while and let someone else earn their ire.

People don't even know what we're attempting to accomplish but they're all gung-ho for it because American troops need to be in every country on the planet I guess otherwise our foreign policy is failing.
 

lithy

Most Prominent Member of Chat
20 Year Member
Leaving is okay, but set up some recourse, a permanent no-fly zone, a UN peace keeping force...SOMETHING.

It's sad to me this is the decision made.

But like you said, that is never the conversation that comes out of this. It is only ever, "We can't/couldn't/shouldn't because". More time, more stalling, more years of war.

The decision will always be sad, because people will get hurt and killed. People will be displaced, people will get well and truly fucked in ways that as an American I will never face. The problem is that it is happening now, except with the added cost of lives and money from our country. It is no easy solution so maybe a simple but ugly end is the requirement.

I guess put this way, I don't care if we stay for a hundred years, we are not leaving Syria, Iraq, or Afghanistan looking like even Ireland, Greece, or Spain. Ever. So what additional goal does a delay accomplish?
 

wataru330

Mr. Wrestling IV
20 Year Member
This is a bad move. Instant propaganda machine for our enemies; ‘assist America, and they’ll bail on you’ is not the right message to send.

What a boneheaded move-the Pentagon didn’t even know it was coming.

We are just going to let the Turks pull up, and slaughter the Kurds that helped us?

Gross.

Because, Trump Towers in Istanbul.

Fucking gross.
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
lol fuck off with that shit. Although their technicals are pretty rad, right?

ISIS/ISIL only exists because of another endless conflict courtesy of the United States in Iraq anyway. Tell me how ISIS would realistically attack this country before I worry about considering them an 'enemy'.

The US has done enough for Muslim extremist recruiting in the last 20 years, maybe we take a break for a while and let someone else earn their ire.

People don't even know what we're attempting to accomplish but they're all gung-ho for it because American troops need to be in every country on the planet I guess otherwise our foreign policy is failing.

The reason ISIS exists is because we took the foot off the gas when we should have been burning al Qaeda members alive and feeding them to their wives and children, anally.

Pulling out doesn’t work. Ask your dad if you don’t believe me. No half measures.
 

lithy

Most Prominent Member of Chat
20 Year Member
The reason ISIS exists is because we took the foot off the gas when we should have been burning al Qaeda members alive and feeding them to their wives and children, anally.

Pulling out doesn’t work. Ask your dad if you don’t believe me. No half measures.

On that, I agree with you, but the US has no stomach for total wars with vague notions of an enemy. And a point I have made before on these forums is that leadership doesn't want to end wars anyway because it brings in the bucks.

We certainly have the capability to 'win' a war, any country except a couple on this planet could be reduced to rubble in a week with little resistance if the notion of civilized warfare didn't interfere, but when you go in on the premise of liberating people, bringing them democracy, educating their girls and burning their opium fields or whatever, then you're going to have to make friends or at least try. Which means you can't level city blocks, women and children included to drive out the half dozen fighters holed up in some building.

Although pulling out worked just fine for us for 5 years until we were officially 'trying'. So that's one data point.
 

lithy

Most Prominent Member of Chat
20 Year Member
This is a bad move. Instant propaganda machine for our enemies; ‘assist America, and they’ll bail on you’ is not the right message to send.

What a boneheaded move-the Pentagon didn’t even know it was coming.

We are just going to let the Turks pull up, and slaughter the Kurds that helped us?

Gross.

Because, Trump Towers in Istanbul.

Fucking gross.

Honest question. What enemies?
 

SML

NEANDERTHAL FUCKER,
20 Year Member
Justin Amash has pointed out this isn't really a withdrawal.

But treating it like one for a moment, it's a weird path out of "entangling allaiances" to demonstrate that you aren't worth bothering with, and multilateral and bilateral arrangements are equally meaningless to you.
 

StevenK

ng.com SFII tournament winner 2002-2023
10 Year Member
Whether or not it's the right decision is well out of my remit, but you do always get the impression that Trump makes these decisions, completely alone, because he was bored while taking a shit.

It doesn't fill you with confidence.
 

Heinz

Parteizeit
15 Year Member
I hope for the worlds sake that Trump doesn't get his extra 4 years. Great and unmatched wisdom... I can and can't believe he said that. :spock:
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member

SML

NEANDERTHAL FUCKER,
20 Year Member
Apparently Turkey ended up bombing some of our special forces anyway.
 

oliverclaude

General Morden's Aide
Do these conflicts even register as wars for Americans?

Maybe not the conflicts, but the vicious compost piles left behind after a withdrawal. Leaving things unfinished is a powerful move, by those with power. Entering, then leaving the square root of 3 of disturbance behind.
 
Top