The 5 credit rule?

[oliverclaude]

Aim is and should always be to get very skillful in a very short time. Before save states & bios cheats, credit feeding & bugs left by programmers were the only possibilities to achieve mastery fast. Ending the game after one continue would certainly prolonged the inevitable 1 credit clear, which was only good for home players in order to get the most out of a $100+ game they purchased once a few months. Arcade players tho, just had to be quick, cause every repeat cost them their hard earned dough. Today, you practice via emulation and then get your scores right on the real thing.

 

[andsuchisdeath]

I'm reading lately however that I should be credit feeding in my shooters to get practice at the later levels and build a strategy in the early levels to get ready for the harder stuff later on.

Where'd you read this? Tigerbeat?

 

[FilthyRear]

Where'd you read this? Tigerbeat?

Nuffin' but white peepull.

 

[NERDtendo]

Where'd you read this? Tigerbeat?

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=30458

 

[andsuchisdeath]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=30458

Yeah, I've read that before. I understand that there are instances where continuing can beneficial as a practice/preparation method but…

I used to do one credit as well. I also read that credit feeding is better, so I switched to that and it definitely is. Instead of seeing how far you can get on one credit, switch your metric to number of continues and keep chopping that number down.

I don't see this method being "definitely better" at all.

 

[oliverclaude]

I don't see this method being "definitely better" at all.

There's also a self-evident example to support your opinion, from my own distillery, regarding R-Type Delta. If you use a continue in this game, you'll main concern will be getting through with low grade weaponry. At one point, I was so good at it, that I did not know, how to get through being fully armed. Flying on low weapons necessitates a totally different set of dodging moves and ship placement and ultimately destroys your rhythm to achieve a 1cc.

The solution was to use the full power-up cheat each time I lost a life. Without it tho, using continues would simply be the wrong choice.

 

[NERDtendo]

There's also a self-evident example to support your opinion, from my own distillery, regarding R-Type Delta. If you use a continue in this game, you'll main concern will be getting through with low grade weaponry. At one point, I was so good at it, that I did not know, how to get through being fully armed. Flying on low weapons necessitates a totally different set of dodging moves and ship placement and ultimately destroys your rhythm to achieve a 1cc.

The solution was to use the full power-up cheat each time I lost a life. Without it tho, using continues would simply be the wrong choice.

I am playing Shienryu right now and continuing with the basic weapons is brutal...

 

[FilthyRear]

I am playing Shienryu right now and continuing with the basic weapons is brutal...

IIRC, rank in that game is based on the power of your weapon, and that game starts to get brutal pretty quickly. I might also be thinking of Daioh so dont quote me.

 

[Chempop]

Today, you practice via emulation and then get your scores right on the real thing

Some of the best players do, and but many do not. Don't make it sound like everyone cheats
As far as credit feeding for practice versus single credit practice, both are useful.
It often depends on how much experience you already have with the game.

 

[oliverclaude]

Some of the best players do, and but many do not. Don't make it sound like everyone cheats

You did misunderstand my statement, which is only indebted to my bias towards abbreviations. The full sentence should read: You practice and exploit via emulation, using the benefits of save states et al, then do your 1cc run in circumstances appropriate to Arcadia principles. And I sure wouldn't call this kind of drill cheating, it's merely a handy catalyst. But we might differ...

 

[Chempop]

We do differ and I did understand your statement.
When I post these: I'm usually half joking.

I like to imagine that playing arcade games, you have to follow the game's rules, and that everyone who plays follows those same rules that the developer intended. For some people to practice the final patterns of the TLB for hours and hours until it is not trivial, well I don't view those players having followed the developers intentions, nor do I think the accomplishment is remotely similar to those who tough it out the classic way.

 

[city41]

I don't see this method being "definitely better" at all.

Care to elaborate?

I can see it depending on the game. Credit feeding through shooters that use check points or drastically reduce your weapons upon death probably offers little benefit. Credit feeding through something like DDP has a lot of benefit. You get to practice the entire game regularly, in conditions that are pretty close to what they'll be once you arrive at the later parts of the game on one credit.

 

[oliverclaude]

I don't view those players having followed the developers intentions, ...

Intentions, which you can't possibly know all about, as anybody else for that matter, besides those developers of course, though the plural suggest that in the end, there might have been more than one intention and maybe even contradict ones among them. There's also the lack of objective definition to your "classic way" of toughing it out, which makes your potentially righteous way to exercise a game even more of an enigma. But then again, legend has it that there are only two ways of doing things anyhow: the wrong way and the elitist one. And that ...is more of an answer one wishes for to receive .

 

[complexz]

one credit isn't the most efficient way to practice, it's just the most thrilling way to play. Sometimes I'll use a training mode or credit feed to practice. But I'm just grinding for when I'm going to pop just one quarter in and play with some stakes.

 

[oliverclaude]

one credit isn't the most efficient way to practice, it's just the most thrilling way to play.

And then some... won't ever forget my training sessions on one cred with MS1 & Daimakaimura. The former being even harder, because it offers no extensions at all. In both games you'll likely die over some absolutely harmless stuff, like a missed jump or a clearly visible obstacle, something that just couldn't happen without your nerves being tensed up about your own one credit restriction.

There are indeed STGs without the need of extensive memorazation, where this way of playing gives you the excitement you mentioned, AOSII is one of them for me. Here every penny counts or else you'll be stripped off your armor. And then you can just kiss your 1cc ambitions goodbye .

 

[andsuchisdeath]

Care to elaborate?

Switching "one's metric to number of continues" seems inferior to both 1-credit practice, and of course inferior to save state practice. You're ingraining unrealistic conditions with a fluctuating placement into your routine. Even if these unrealistic conditions are as simple as extra bombs in a game with negligible rank, making mental notes on these variables seems like a confusing hassle that will only lead to future trouble. The only thing I could ever see myself gaining from this approach would be a psychological disadvantge.

Again, continuing can be beneficial for practicing, game depending of course. Like Chempop said earlier, this often depends on how much experience the player already has with the game. I totally agree.

Approaching games right out of the gate with a "I'll use 4 credits, then 3, then 2, then 1" seems scary to me. I'd never be able to learn anything. If this has proved to be successful for you, that's cool.

 

[city41]

But each time you knock the credit count down, you get closer and closer to 1cc conditions. And you do so in a smooth, manageable way. For example my DOJ credit count has dropped from 6 to 3 over the past week. 3 credits is still not what the game really will be like when I finally 1cc it (1-all to be technical, I'm not attempting both loops), but it's pretty close. When I get it to 2, then it pretty much is 1cc conditions and the exact same thing as only allowing yourself one credit. Yet I have no doubt at all I'll arrive at 2 credits much faster than I would have if I only ever allowed myself one credit to begin with. Hell, I'd still be working on my previous 1cc if that was the case.

Accurate save states are probably the absolute best way to practice a game. But some consider it cheating, and others like myself just don't like playing on emulators.

I can't speak to R-Type style shmups, or Yagawa style shmups where rank changes drastically, etc, as I've never really played them. I do think my next clear game will be Jikkyou Parodius, and for that game I have no intention at all of credit feeding through it, doesn't make any sense.

 

[city41]

It's basically this

And I argue the practice credits are worthwhile and enable you to increase the 1cc portion faster. You seem to disagree, but we may just have to leave it at that.

 

[Pasky]

I need a better flowchart before I'll understand.

 

[Chempop]

for readibility: https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5740/24052026035_3250d8b133_o.jpg

 

[BanishingFlatsAC]

It's basically this

And I argue the practice credits are worthwhile and enable you to increase the 1cc portion faster. You seem to disagree, but we may just have to leave it at that.

Are you fucking kidding me right now..A flow chart to justify how you play a game. I think I'm getting to old for games.

for readibility: https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5740/24052026035_3250d8b133_o.jpg

 

[oliverclaude]

 

[FilthyRear]

for readibility...

 

[LoneSage]

GODDAMNED NERDS

NERRRDDDSSS

 

[pegboy]

Some games are just "impossible" (to me) without save state practice. I recently managed to 1CC both loops of Strikers 1945 II, but it took an enormous amount of save state practice, studying replays, single credit runs, credit feeding runs, etc. In some instances I had like 4 different save states on a single boss just to figure out what the fuck to do. I probably died 100 times+ on every single boss of loop 2 trying to find the right strategies.

In all, it took me 4.5 months to 2-ALL that game. It probably would have literally taken years if I didn't have save states to practice the second loop. I have no idea how in the hell anyone could clear the second loop of something like that or DoDonPachi in an arcade environment without any other ability to practice.

I'm currently undergoing a similar process in my attempt to 1CC both loops of Strikers 1945 Plus.