Playing 'back ups' on Neo geo CD

itsofrustratin

Rasputin's Rose Gardener
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Anybody have any experience with this, i heard its really bad for the laser to play back ups. Has anybody encountered any problems using back ups on the neo geo cd? i know alot of the games are cheap but the desirable games with little loading tend to be fairly pricey.
 

GohanX

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If a CDR kills a laser, it's because the laser was dying to begin with. The Neo CD is fine with CDR copies.
 

Syn

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I sold all my cds a couple years ago and only use backups now.
 

goombakid

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Anybody have any experience with this, i heard its really bad for the laser to play back ups.
If a CDR kills a laser, it's because the laser was dying to begin with. The Neo CD is fine with CDR copies.

This. The whole thing with CDR's killing the lasers are old tales, probably even more so so resellers can jack up the price on your favorite disc based game to make more $$.

The main thing is to use quality media.
 

GohanX

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One thing worth noting, if you have a CDZ there are a few games like AOF3 that have a very basic copy protection that only affects the Z. It's really easy to break, if you do a Google search you can find a guide that shows you how to break it from one of our own members.
 

ChuChu Flamingo

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Theoretically pressed disc are easier to read than a burned disc but if your laser is going to die, its already dead like GohanX stated.

For dreamcast games it is a real concern as some rips are not done right. Downsince86 explains it way better than I could ever hope to although I disagree that it doesn't do more wear and tear due to laser seeking more as they don't behave and read 1:1 like the original games.

I'll chime in since I know a little about the subject.

First off; _Proper_ backups are no risk to your Dreamcast. With that said it is important for you to understand that _a lot_ of the backups floating around the internet are not "proper".

I'll try to explain the situation as best I can.

To start with you need to understand that the Dreamcast was designed to load data from CDs. Most games were released in GD-ROM format but the Dreamcast's disc drive was also able to load what are called "MilCDs" which were originally used for karaoke software. Several other MilCDs were sold on the retail market, the most well known is the bleemcast series of emulators. All new Dreamcast games are also released in MilCD format.

Backups of GD-ROM games, bootdisks, and all homebrew are also released in MilCD format. The only difference between them and retail MilCDs are the fact that they are usually burned to CD-R.

So why do so many people claim backups are bad for the disc drive?

Well what it boils down to is this; A lot of the early scene releases and releases done by individuals that don't know any better were not properly converted over to MilCD format. The most common error in nearly all releases are files not begin placed in the correct order in backups.

Basically lets say the GD-ROM has the following file order: a,b,c,d,e,f. This file order is optimized so that when the game has finished loading "b" and is in need of the data in file "c" that file should be close to the laser. Now lets say someone converted this game to CD-R but didn't bother to correctly order the files, now the order is: a,f,e,c,d,b. Now when the game needs the data from file "c" after loading "b" the laser will have to move further leading to longer seek times.

In other words if the files are not in the correct order you would expect: Longer loading times, hearing the laser seeking more often, and probably things like laggy loading of menu music and cutscenes.

The second problem with a lot of backups is the lack of a proper dummy file (padding). You see the Dreamcast will always read data faster from the outside of the disc, and slower from the inside of the disc. So if you have a small game (300MB or so) like Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 it is important to make sure that all the game data is at outer edge of the disc. You *could* burn this game like any regular CD and all the game data would be near the inside of the disc. It would work but it would have longer loading times and delayed music if you compared it to the original GD-ROM.

To get around that problem you use what is called a dummy file. This file is basically just a file full of garbage data that is placed at the start of the file order (it should always be the first file). By doing this you push all the important game data to the outside of the disc. This is why you see backups that are around 200-300MB when compressed in .rar format but expand to 700MB+ when extracted.

If your making Dreamcast backups there are several other gotchas. Some are found in all games, other are specific to a few games or one game. All of them require hex editing or using a pre-made tool to get around. There is a lot more to making correct Dreamcast backups than dumping a GD-ROM and packing the data in to a .cdi image.

For that reason I can not recommend making backups yourself to avoid the problems I mentioned simply because the process is far more technical when compared to making PSX/PS2/Other disc based system backups. However if you want to know more here is a good place to get started: Making GDI files bootable on real Dreamcast with perfection.

If your looking to find _proper_ backups for use on your console the author of the tutorial I linked has released several selfbooting backups over the last year or so. There are other people like him that are re-dumping and re-releasing selfbooting backups and doing it properly. So if you can't find a proper dump for the game you seek just keep looking around, no doubt it'll show up soon.

Finally don't worry so much about running the "improper" backups from CD-R. They might have increased load times and cause the laser to seek more often but they won't damage the console any more than playing retail games all of the time. You'll probably go through multiple fans before you have to replace the GD-ROM. I've been using mine non-stop since '99 and have never had to replace or repair the GD-ROM.

What kills lasers in my opinion is constant laser seek from one edge of the disc to another (you usually hear the laser click when doing so/become more noisy). My purple gamecube got destroyed piping over and over in Phantasy Star Online Episode 1 & 2 for rare enemies since the data was not sequential (when you load from Pioneer 2 to an area) and thus had to seek every time I loaded. Swap tricks for console also have this, and I think that is why people say burned games kill their lasers, not the actual playing. So I say relax, play burned games and if a laser dies just replace it or get a new one.

Like how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop, we may never know.
 
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DNSDies

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The laser itself in the Dreamcast (and other consoles) is usually fairly robust and able to withstand hundreds of thousands of hours of use.

The motors are what will fail first.
The sled motor in my dreamcast failed last year, but I was able to buy a replacement motor brand new off Mouser by taking measurements of the old one and finding a new one that fit the specs and dimensions.
As a bonus, the newer motor is actually much quieter than the regular one.

It did require some more advanced skill though. You have to disassemble the laser assembly, unmount, and desolder the old motor and put the new one in properly.
 

itsofrustratin

Rasputin's Rose Gardener
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This. The whole thing with CDR's killing the lasers are old tales, probably even more so so resellers can jack up the price on your favorite disc based game to make more $$.

The main thing is to use quality media.

Ya i had a feeling that was the case. The neo geo cd is a pretty rare console so i think alot of people on the internet are just parroting what they heard.
 

GohanX

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The last I checked you could still get new lasers for most models of the CD, so I wouldn't worry about it.
 
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