Open Apology to Community

[evil wasabi]

Because if the guy flipping the bottle of 1982 Petrus was the same guy that had authenticated it, then it would like like an obvious conflict of interest. If cash was John's endgame then he surely could have secured this without undermining such an elaborete conspiracy by flipping the cart he just gave the thumbs up.

Also, I don't know anything about a TonK personal copy.

Tonk didn't tell me how much he paid DavidG for his AF3, but he said that what he sold to the Italian was his own personal copy. I was under the impression it was a gift.

 

[evo7_31]

It should have rang a massive alarm bell when:

1) Geddon_jt was asked to 'authenticate' a dubious new 'discovery' based almost entirely on his goodwill and name rather than any perceived expertise,
2) Geddon_jt wrote a sparkling report on this dubious discovery (I read through all 3 parts and there was definitely some skilful use of language to gloss over any possible perceived areas of doubt),
3) Geddon_jt was then offered a 'deal' on said dubious discovery?

As an obviously intelligent individual, how all this happening in sequence (not by themselves mind you) would not alert him to some massive conflict of interest is pretty mindboggling to me.

And while refusing to disclose the sale price is also understandable to some degree, it only serves to further muddy the waters. Unfortunately, while Geddon_jt's explanation certainly sounds sincere (and he is likely the least culpable of any scammers involved, if at all), I'm of the opinion that he can certainly do much more to separate himself from whoever is going to get in deep trouble for this matter.

No point staying on the sinking ship anymore, even Tonk (who seemed to back both AF2 and PS2 carts to the hilt) has disappeared.

 

[Comrade Porn King Mikhail]

I don't think they colluded. Besides, we have Mikhail Kiselgof who took part in this (Tonk mentioned he asked him like John and Billy to check the cart and give his opinion)

Simone, don't talk out of your ass. I have no home carts in my gaming library, haven't had them since 2003. I had one or two pass through my hands as part of trades and have promptly gotten rid of them. I don't care about home carts.

I did no authentication, have never touched/seen/smelled an AF3/PS2 other than the pictures everyone has seen in this and the other threads. I have never spoken to DavidG although I have e-mailed him asking for explanations to questions posted in the reveal thread, with no response back.

Mike is my friend and I have spoken to him on a regular basis for years. He shared information with me as he was bringing Geddon and SuperGun on board and I told him he was doing the right thing involving long time Neo Geo collectors (and owners of numerous rare titles) to help with any authentication and verification of new finds. I told him to find as many serious home cart collectors to discuss this with as possible, and I think he did, a couple of whom ended up being buyers apparently (or so I was told).

I firmly 100% believe that neither Mike, nor John, nor Billy, colluded or were in on any kind of scam. They may have been misled and may have lent authentication and expertise when they didn't have the authority to do so. None the less, I believe that they are telling the truth about their involvement and all three of them believed at the time of the transactions that these were/are real items. I've known each of these guys for over 10 years, and in all that time they have been passionate for the Neo with the best interests of the community in mind. Sure, there have been situations where the desire for a proto or a rare item superceded public disclosure and led to secrecy, but they have always been trustworthy Neo collectors.

I would equate them all to you Simone. Some of them may have personalities that irk people and/or perform transactions that involve monetary gain. But they are all as passionate and honest as you despite whatever the trend of the Neo mob mentality may be.

Sincerely,

Mikhail

 

[malignantpoodle]

Not really. We're talking about a hobby here, read, playing & collecting Neo games, not a vital service such as the healthcare system, the law or electric installations which may or may not involve the risk for both the operator and customer/patient/client of getting inadvertedly killed or mistreated, guiltlessly imprisoned or roasted alife. During the last 12 years I've been here, I've been asked on numerous occasions to comment on the authenticity of carts or NGCDs and was always willing to oblige, helping your fellow Neo fans out is what a community is all about, after all. However, I always made sure to tell people that I can only give them hints, the final decision is up to them.

This wasn't a simple one buddy helping out another by throwing a few comments down on a cart's authenticity via some posted pics. This was a 3 page report on the heels of the announcement of a new release that he was given rather exclusive access to.

To be clear; what I mean about licensing is that someone of his level of education and understanding with regard to the caveats of service should know the risks of becoming any part of that. Going by what I can see for myself or rather, what I can read on these forums, I do not believe he was knowingly and intentionally trying to screw anyone over. But despite his role as the unwitting pawn in the rip-off, his involvement may very well have facilitated the process. I don't for a second believe that the idea that the carts were fake and that could negatively affect him never crossed his mind. To the contrary, the report is filled with double talk on some of the gray areas to cover his ass in the case it was just that.

So, the bottom line was that he knew the risks of his involvement, admits that he was not an expert, yet decided to play the part anyway.
My guess is that he honestly felt the carts were real, and he wanted to help out and be a part of their new legacy. I'm with you, I believe he had good intentions, but good intentions don't absolve people of accountability when shit hits the fan like it has here.

 

[FTL]

Simone, don't talk out of your ass. I have no home carts in my gaming library, haven't had them since 2003. I had one or two pass through my hands as part of trades and have promptly gotten rid of them. I don't care about home carts.

I did no authentication, have never touched/seen/smelled an AF3/PS2 other than the pictures everyone has seen in this and the other threads. I have never spoken to DavidG although I have e-mailed him asking for explanations to questions posted in the reveal thread, with no response back.

Mike is my friend and I have spoken to him on a regular basis for years. He shared information with me as he was bringing Geddon and SuperGun on board and I told him he was doing the right thing involving long time Neo Geo collectors (and owners of numerous rare titles) to help with any authentication and verification of new finds. I told him to find as many serious home cart collectors to discuss this with as possible, and I think he did, a couple of whom ended up being buyers apparently (or so I was told).

I firmly 100% believe that neither Mike, nor John, nor Billy, colluded or were in on any kind of scam. They may have been misled and may have lent authentication and expertise when they didn't have the authority to do so. None the less, I believe that they are telling the truth about their involvement and all three of them believed at the time of the transactions that these were/are real items. I've known each of these guys for over 10 years, and in all that time they have been passionate for the Neo with the best interests of the community in mind. Sure, there have been situations where the desire for a proto or a rare item superceded public disclosure and led to secrecy, but they have always been trustworthy Neo collectors.

I would equate them all to you Simone. Some of them may have personalities that irk people and/or perform transactions that involve monetary gain. But they are all as passionate and honest as you despite whatever the trend of the Neo mob mentality may be.

Sincerely,

Mikhail

I never stated you colluded.

I stated that Tonk asked your opinion and you were clearly siding with the source.

So, instead of dropping lines about other arguments, why don't you just answer my simple question:

did you swallow all the lies from davidG? did you actually believe he worked for SNk and helped design the neo geo chips?

I don't have any authority to authenticate carts myself but I would smell BS out of all that story the source said immediately.

 

[Tinieblas]

no it wasn't

OK, but now that u mention it, it wasn't 30k but 31k, so we know it wasn't John,Billy, Chamane, so it has to be one of the other 3

 

[Comrade Porn King Mikhail]

So, instead of dropping lines about other arguments, why don't you just answer my simple question:

did you swallow all the lies from davidG? did you actually believe he worked for SNk and helped design the neo geo chips?

I didn't swallow anything and I wasn't asked for my opinion. I was informed about what was happening and I suggested getting as many Neo home cart experts as possible, proceeding with caution and vetting the source, and informing all potential buyers of all the information at hand. As far as I know, Mike did all of that.

Did I believe the source's stories myself? Not really, because I don't care about Neo Geo stories, they're all just entertainment to me like watching TMZ. I also require a much higher burden of proof that most people. Nor do I believe your stories, or Shawn's, or Dion's, or Vinh's. Everyone has an agenda of some kind, and that's their prerogative.

I don't care what these stories are because they do not affect me in any way, they're all drama and entertainment to me as I have no stake in home carts or collecting Neo Geo. If they lead to potential fraud, as has happened in the past with Dean/Battlesmurf, then I'll involve myself as far as I can offer to assist the parties involved. I have similarly made myself available to Matthieu/Waku7 as he is a friend and I will help him in any way he requests of me.

 

[Takumaji]

So, the bottom line was that he knew the risks of his involvement, admits that he was not an expert, yet decided to play the part anyway.
My guess is that he honestly felt the carts were real, and he wanted to help out and be a part of their new legacy. I'm with you, I believe he had good intentions, but good intentions don't absolve people of accountability when shit hits the fan like it has here.

Geddon made a mistake (he obviously wasn't the only one...), admitted it and stepped down from his mod position, in other words, he drew the consequences of his actions in a way which goes beyond what I would have expected (in fact, I haven't expected anything). I've read the report as well but contrary to other people who couldn't wait to shove tens of thousands of bucks down David's throat (with or without having read Geddon's report, mind you), I didn't fully buy it, and that's coming from someone who is way less proficient in Neo collecting lore than many other people here. Still, let's not confuse cause and effect, it's not Geddon who is to blame, despite his unfortunate involvement with the issue (and notwithstanding any new development in the case), but Da Sauce.

Any punishment for the well-meaning hobbyist beyond what has already happened would be a very bad precedent. Let's not pull the rug out from under out feet.

 

[Tacitus]

Let's not pull the rug out from under out feet.

What color is the rug?

 

[Takumaji]

What color is the rug?

A delicious Mauve.

 

[evil wasabi]

I didn't swallow anything and I wasn't asked for my opinion. I was informed about what was happening and I suggested getting as many Neo home cart experts as possible, proceeding with caution and vetting the source, and informing all potential buyers of all the information at hand. As far as I know, Mike did all of that.

Did I believe the source's stories myself? Not really, because I don't care about Neo Geo stories, they're all just entertainment to me like watching TMZ. I also require a much higher burden of proof that most people. Nor do I believe your stories, or Shawn's, or Dion's, or Vinh's. Everyone has an agenda of some kind, and that's their prerogative.

I don't care what these stories are because they do not affect me in any way, they're all drama and entertainment to me as I have no stake in home carts or collecting Neo Geo. If they lead to potential fraud, as has happened in the past with Dean/Battlesmurf, then I'll involve myself as far as I can offer to assist the parties involved. I have similarly made myself available to Matthieu/Waku7 as he is a friend and I will help him in any way he requests of me.

I don't think you're connected to DavidG, or whoever he is.

The fact is, a lot of people are friends with Tonk, and Tonk cares about a lot of the people he's made friends with. Defending Tonk doesn't mean that someone is in DavidG's pocket, but that they care for Tonk too. That's fine. Don't sweat it.

Unless you're OrochiEddie

 

[Colorado Rockie]

OK, but now that u mention it, it wasn't 30k but 31k, so we know it wasn't John,Billy, Chamane, so it has to be one of the other 3

Ya DavidG allegedly told Shawn that 1 of the AF3's sold for 31K.

So Chamane paid 25k, not 30k for his at the airport.

I guess 30k just has a better ring to it and it probably makes it the single most expensive neo cart. I remember seeing several game related websites with the headline "this game just for 30K" or something like that)

So telling everyone the game sold for 30k at the airport is just another of DavidG's lies

 

[evil wasabi]

Ya DavidG allegedly told Shawn that 1 of the AF3's sold for 31K.

So Chamane paid 25k, not 30k for his at the airport.

I guess 30k just has a better ring to it and it probably makes it the single most expensive neo cart. I remember seeing several game related websites with the headline "this game just for 30K" or something like that)

So telling everyone the game sold for 30k at the airport is just another of DavidG's lies

Maybe, maybe not. There were 3 buyers who were not tied to davidg. Chamane was one of them. That leaves 2 others.

 

[Colorado Rockie]

Maybe, maybe not. There were 3 buyers who were not tied to davidg. Chamane was one of them. That leaves 2 others.

I was just saying that Chamane himself did not allegedly pay 30k, but rather 25k. I am still very open to the possibility that other undisclosed buyers paid 30k or 31k.

 

[Comrade Porn King Mikhail]

Maybe, maybe not. There were 3 buyers who were not tied to davidg. Chamane was one of them. That leaves 2 others.

The four known people are Chamane, Mike, Billy and John. Mike did not keep his, which means there are three people who have not come forward.

EDIT: I don't mean to imply they "must" come forward. It's certainly their prerogative to remain private and not state themselves on the forums.

 

[evil wasabi]

The four known people are Chamane, Mike, Billy and John. Mike did not keep his, which means there are three people who have not come forward.

EDIT: I don't mean to imply they "must" come forward. It's certainly their prerogative to remain private and not state themselves on the forums.

I have already tried to pass along the message to one of them that he should come forward.

 

[malignantpoodle]

Geddon made a mistake (he obviously wasn't the only one...), admitted it and stepped down from his mod position, in other words, he drew the consequences of his actions in a way which goes beyond what I would have expected (in fact, I haven't expected anything). I've read the report as well but contrary to other people who couldn't wait to shove tens of thousands of bucks down David's throat (with or without having read Geddon's report, mind you), I didn't fully buy it, and that's coming from someone who is way less proficient in Neo collecting lore than many other people here. Still, let's not confuse cause and effect, it's not Geddon who is to blame, despite his unfortunate involvement with the issue (and notwithstanding any new development in the case), but Da Sauce.

Any punishment for the well-meaning hobbyist beyond what has already happened would be a very bad precedent. Let's not pull the rug out from under out feet.

Yes yes but let's keep this in perspective. I was commenting on aria's position that he felt that Geddon didn't have to take the actions he has. I disagreed with that. That is all. He did play a part, and it was a mistake, and he was letting the community know about that.

I wasn't saying anything other than that I disagreed with aria's statements with regard to geddon's posting.

 

[aria]

This wasn't a simple one buddy helping out another by throwing a few comments down on a cart's authenticity via some posted pics. This was a 3 page report on the heels of the announcement of a new release that he was given rather exclusive access to.

To be clear; what I mean about licensing is that someone of his level of education and understanding with regard to the caveats of service should know the risks of becoming any part of that. Going by what I can see for myself or rather, what I can read on these forums, I do not believe he was knowingly and intentionally trying to screw anyone over. But despite his role as the unwitting pawn in the rip-off, his involvement may very well have facilitated the process. I don't for a second believe that the idea that the carts were fake and that could negatively affect him never crossed his mind. To the contrary, the report is filled with double talk on some of the gray areas to cover his ass in the case it was just that.

So, the bottom line was that he knew the risks of his involvement, admits that he was not an expert, yet decided to play the part anyway.
My guess is that he honestly felt the carts were real, and he wanted to help out and be a part of their new legacy. I'm with you, I believe he had good intentions, but good intentions don't absolve people of accountability when shit hits the fan like it has here.

Generally speaking in regards to the report: It's easy to say he shouldn't have got involved to being with, but the temptation's there. It's hard to say what a person will do when offered such an opportunity. There are so many motivating factors. Some respond to greed. Others reputation. Still others just want a chance to be a part of a historic find in a scene they've been a part of for a very long time. It's flattering to have someone ask your opinion about something so valuable. For example, it was neat that Geddon was asked by that English rag to write an article after their mess with their previous Neo-related article.

Years ago I visited Shawn and he asked me to take a look at the English Kizuna when it was in his possession. I was flattered but I really couldn't say much about it other than it "seemed authentic from touch"*, etc (it was never a planned part of the visit, he just wanted another casual opinion). For me, that underlined how little I knew about that stuff. Thankfully I've never been a high end collector.

Throughout the current DavidG-drama, I've had opportunities presented by various parties to either talk to the source, examine a game in person, hold onto things, or similarly get in the middle. I've declined it all: It never seemed like a good idea to get in the middle. It was certainly tempting, but I decided to play things conservatively--mostly because of the dollars involved and, knowing how I can be, I really didn't want to be the one getting into heated arguments with people (I can only imagine how a phone call with DavidG would've gone; it would've been close to a deposition and probably unpleasant--I wasn't interested in that aspect).

As for examining the cart itself or even holding onto one, allow me to adapt a line: "Don't tempt me! I dare not take it. Not even to keep it safe. Understand, I would use this Cart from a desire to do good. But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine."

* Wolf, I touched your insert, it felt lovely. Smooth, silky, sensuous... Call me! XOXO​

 

[evil wasabi]

 

[chamane]

We have to stay on the topic .
I have paid 25000 USD for this game and I can prove it .
I know the 2 other REAL buyers of the game and if they want to stay anonymous , it is their Right .
I am working on the report . It Will be available in the next few days...

 

[Geddon_jt]

We have to stay on the topic .
I have paid 25000 USD for this game and I can prove it .
I know the 2 other REAL buyers of the game and if they want to stay anonymous , it is their Right .
I am working on the report . It Will be available in the next few days...

I'm sure your report will be much more objective than mine, since you don't have a dog in the fight, right? Are you going to include all the ways the game is IDENTICAL and proper with SNK releases while you are at it, or acknowledge everything I saw that is CORRECT, before accusing me of being "part of the fraud," as you and others want so desperately to believe?

Why didn't you do a report 4 months ago when you bought the game, before you posted that it I was RIGHT, and that it was "insanely genuine" (to use your own words)? And why didn't you or the other "unhappy buyer" contact me at ANY TIME prior to your purchase, or anytime before last week, around the time when public opinion started to shift, resulting in your game being devalued? If your answer is because you didn't know of an !Arcade! link, did you ask TonK where the game was coming from before you bought it? If you did, and he said Canada, you would have known what to look for right away to address your concerns. If you didn't, how is that my fault? I didn't talk to you at all before you spending your $25k, nor do I have any idea what questions you asked Mike or David before spending your money to ease your mind.

The answer is, because you and your friend Waku7 were originally GIDDY to see this game in person, much like I was when I saw it for the first time. As I told you privately, I investigated the possibility of an !Arcade! link by comparing the game to a Strikers insert I own and other materials I had pictures of. They were leagues apart in quality... Now you want to spin this and say that I "intentionally left things out" so you can point the finger at me and anyone else you can...

If DavidG did make this game, then he fooled both of us. Are you just too angry to accept that? Because it is the 100% truth! And if that is the case, YES you were defrauded by HIM, JUST LIKE ME, and yes, you deserve your money back, FROM HIM.
Anyone, you included, that says I intentionally left things out to move games is just flat out wrong, regardless of what your report ends up saying.

Nevermind that I have tried to help you privately, then you still slam me publicly, and I STILL try to help you... and DavidG then agrees to a settlement proposal YOU made... and I am STILL here willing to help you in whatever way I can, since you are still not happy, whether it is my responsibility to do so or not.

I've admitted that I shouldn't have written the report and apologized for it (just as I said I would do in the original report), but based on the facts I knew at the time I was totally sure. Just like you were, until 5 days ago.

If you post that report as a way of "proving my involvement in the scam," I'm not going to respond to it. If you can acknowledge what I've said here, we can have a civil public discussion and I'll take the time to compare your observations to my copy. My copy does differ in certain ways from what waku7 emailed me...

 

[chamane]

I'm sure your report will be much more objective than mine, since you don't have a dog in the fight, right? Are you going to include all the ways the game is IDENTICAL and proper with SNK releases while you are at it, or acknowledge everything I saw that is CORRECT, before accusing me of being "part of the fraud," as you and others want so desperately to believe?

Why didn't you do a report 4 months ago when you bought the game, before you posted that it I was RIGHT, and that it was "insanely genuine" (to use your own words)? And why didn't you or the other "unhappy buyer" contact me at ANY TIME prior to your purchase, or anytime before last week, around the time when public opinion started to shift, resulting in your game being devalued? If your answer is because you didn't know of an !Arcade! link, did you ask TonK where the game was coming from before you bought it? If you did, and he said Canada, you would have known what to look for right away to address your concerns. If you didn't, how is that my fault? I didn't talk to you at all before you spending your $25k, nor do I have any idea what questions you asked Mike or David before spending your money to ease your mind.

The answer is, because you and your friend Waku7 were originally GIDDY to see this game in person, much like I was when I saw it for the first time. As I told you privately, I investigated the possibility of an !Arcade! link by comparing the game to a Strikers insert I own and other materials I had pictures of. They were leagues apart in quality... Now you want to spin this and say that I "intentionally left things out" so you can point the finger at me and anyone else you can...

If DavidG did make this game, then he fooled both of us. Are you just too angry to accept that? Because it is the 100% truth! And if that is the case, YES you were defrauded by HIM, JUST LIKE ME, and yes, you deserve your money back, FROM HIM.
Anyone, you included, that says I intentionally left things out to move games is just flat out wrong, regardless of what your report ends up saying.

Nevermind that I have tried to help you privately, then you still slam me publicly, and I STILL try to help you... and DavidG then agrees to a settlement proposal YOU made... and I am STILL here willing to help you in whatever way I can, since you are still not happy, whether it is my responsibility to do so or not.

I've admitted that I shouldn't have written the report and apologized for it (just as I said I would do in the original report), but based on the facts I knew at the time I was totally sure. Just like you were, until 5 days ago.

If you post that report as a way of "proving my involvement in the scam," I'm not going to respond to it. If you can acknowledge what I've said here, we can have a civil public discussion and I'll take the time to compare your observations to my copy. My copy does differ in certain ways from what waku7 emailed me...

Tonk didn't want to give us the source until we paid, and he was so putting pressure, we were having a urgent emergency travel to get the game. he gave us the name when he was at the airport, where money was alredy cashed, and let me tell you, after 10h of plane, you're in condition to take the game more than when you receive it in the postmail.
You should know these detail,s you were in copy in the emails as you were " the friend and attorney" during this deal, even if you say you " don't know why Tonk putted you in it".

We started to worried when PS II were released.
We started to cry when the !arcade! link was told, then we checked.

For other things regarding you, I prefere quoting the part of Xandercrew, as english is not my native langage, and he explains better than us which is, for us the reason we said you are into it. And we LOVED the way you wanted to hide everybody you had purchased the game. I hope you got it for a good price fellah !

About the things you didn't say, a buyer reported me last week that he sent you a lot of things BEFORE your reports, and you were " shocked". But nothing appeared on your report. Alright ?

Let me tell you, I over-estimated you. I thought for such a amount, you would have taken the neo geo cd game US and jap, the neo geo jap game, and did a decent report. Why I didn't do it after I got it? I was in trust.
About the relations with !arcade!, I let you see this topic, and see who reacts and how they react.
For me they knew since the beginning.

About your copy compared to us, you will all be able to compare when we will post the copies of it. We found a major thing in the analysis of the game. There were parts of the reports ( work in progress), some people like Xian xi could say " it's a sample, it does not have to be like regular" even if we don't agree.
But there is a " human" action. clearly a human one. Not easy to explain when you don't have the game in hands. We do your best because it's probably the key.

Doing this report is not easy, because there are a lot of things you see with X4 or X10 magnifier, but you can't " share " it so easily. Same for the color of the paper. etc. It needs to be very clear and the scanner is the only way.

This Aerofighters 3 US, since the release of the PS II is for me like the deny of pregnancy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial_of_pregnancy
The deny of scam.

It's too late to chance your role in this operation and for me your payment for this is :
the price I paid - the price you paid. Xander crew explained it well.

That's life.
Rest is blablabla.

About Tonk he seems not even answering to email. It's sad because he is probably a manipulated nice guy who wanted to prove things. He failed.

 

[aria]

 

[Tinieblas]

John, were you aware before your AF3 report of the Source's original plans about the possible release of KOF2K?

 

[Rot]

Not to poke fun at a seemingly serious situation BUT...

...and...

Seriously guys... there's WALLS of texts in some of these posts....

I prefer something more succinct or at least humorous...

xROTx