Official A/V Thread

[T.A.P.]

I'm converting a spare 10' by 12' (roughly) bedroom into a tv room. Pricewise, my max is around $2000.

 

[Neo Ash]

I'm converting a spare 10' by 12' (roughly) bedroom into a tv room. Pricewise, my max is around $2000.

That’s a pretty small space for HT. 5.1 is defiantly all you need. You may want to start with a 3.1 setup and add the rear speakers at a later time. The rear speakers in a surround setup actually do very little when compared to everything else in the system. Concerning AVRs look at something like the NAD T-758 or the Anthem MXR-310. Either one is defiantly a cut above what you will find at Best Buy. For speakers the PSB Image series and the Paradigm Monitor series will allow you to purchase new and stay relatively near your budget. I consider PSB and Paradigm to be equals; you cannot go wrong picking one over the other. Also, it’s very likely that the Paradigm dealer you visit will have Anthem gear on display. I’m a big Paradigm fan and have owned a few of their speakers over the years. Don’t go crazy with a huge subwoofer in that room, it’s not necessary. Most people have their subwoofer setup incorrectly; this is mostly due to the “wow factor” of thunderous bass. The reality is in a room that size you’re more likely to end up with bloated bass very quickly. The over emphasized bass only serves to distort the sound and smear the midrange. A smaller, faster, sub is a better way to go and will be more accurate for music; especially, considering your room size.

In my experience I have seen OK speakers sound fantastic with excellent electronics. I have never experience OK electronics making excellent speakers sound fantastic. By not going with a home theater in a box, you can take your time and put together what you want. Hell, just start with a 2.1 setup and build from there until you reach your 5.1 goal. But remember to match the center channel with your right and left speakers if you add that at a later time.

 

[T.A.P.]

But remember to match the center channel with your right and left speakers if you add that at a later time.

What do you mean by this?

 

[Neo Ash]

What do you mean by this?

Having matched speakers for left, center, and right is crital in home theater. What this basically means is the the speakers are "voiced" the same and timbre matched. For example you wouldn't want to have a PSB for your left and right and then later add a random Klipsch speaker. The result is as the on screen movie action moves across the front sound stage it will not sound correct, the differences between the speakers will be audible. Also, be prepared to spend some money on a good center channel. The center channel plays a huge role in home theater. For example, if you love the sound of Paradigm Monitor series bookshelfs, you MUST use a Monitor series center channel. With *some* brands you can mix it up with their different product lines; however, it is best to stay within the same product series. Again, that all goes back to voicing, and not all manufactiers have the same voicing across their different product lines. Also, do not use the center channel as area to get cheap and cut corners. The center channel can make or break a home theater system. If more than one center channel option exists in a product line, it's OK to go larger (within reason) than your left/right channel as the center does a large portion of the work.

 

[Teddy KGB]

Ash is spot on. I see too many HT set ups with a pair of giant tower speakers up front with a grossly mismatched (and often undersized/driven) center channel. If your main goal is a HT set-up (vs. a bumpin' stereo) that center channel will and should be getting most of the work. But for whatever reason, a lot of folks cheap out on that piece of a HT.

Most brands have a center, fronts and surrounds matched in certain lines they offer but I'm all for stepping up to a better center channel speaker if it makes sense, which often it does depending on what you're looking at. Happy hunting!

 

[T.A.P.]

I've noticed there are a ton of different surround sound formats. Are newer receivers backwards compatible with older formats?

What formats do the older consoles (PS2, Gamecube, Xbox, Wii, etc) support? I want to make sure I get a receiver that can work with those and my newer stuff, if possible.

 

[Kristian Meller]

Just get a new model and it'll do what you need it to. Whether it sounds good or not depends on make and/or price.

 

[Wachenroder]

Just got a matching pair of Sony 270W speakers from the Goodwill. I say matching because they happen to match the set I already have so now I 2 pair of these same speakers. 8 ohms each

I've got another newbie question.

My amp has 4 channels total. The channels are rated to accept 8-16 ohms each so I want to run the above 4 speakers in series as the primary speakers. Then for the surround sound speakers I have another set from Panasonic. 5 speakers total. 4 are thin 6 ohm speakers and one is the center piece also 6 ohms. I only have 2 channels left. Is there anyway to put all of these speakers to use without damage. Would a resistor work and if so what kind? What happens if I exceed the maximum impedance?

 

[Neo Ash]

Just got a matching pair of Sony 270W speakers from the Goodwill. I say matching because they happen to match the set I already have so now I 2 pair of these same speakers. 8 ohms each

I've got another newbie question.

My amp has 4 channels total. The channels are rated to accept 8-16 ohms each so I want to run the above 4 speakers in series as the primary speakers. Then for the surround sound speakers I have another set from Panasonic. 5 speakers total. 4 are thin 6 ohm speakers and one is the center piece also 6 ohms. I only have 2 channels left. Is there anyway to put all of these speakers to use without damage. Would a resistor work and if so what kind? What happens if I exceed the maximum impedance?

2 speakers at 6 ohm, wired in a series, will give you a total impedance of 12 ohm. If the two speakers are wired parallel the impedance will be around 3 ohm. The series option is the only safe way to do what you're trying to do. I'm not sure what amp you are using, but keep in mind that as the ohm load go up ( 8..to...12..to....16) the amount of watts drops. The parallel option will likely burn that amp to the ground with too much load...especially if you drive it hard. Once you get into 4 ohm loads and lower you must have an amp that is capable and stable into those loads. Also remember that speakers do not have an exact ohm load, there are impedance ranges for all speakers. For example a single 6 ohm speaker is probably 6 ohm nominal with a +/- impedance swing...1 to 3 ohm swings is fairly common. You could use resistors to modify the impedance load presented to the amplifier. However, I would advise against it as the performance will suffer...the crossover was design to work correctly at the intended impedance.

 

[Wachenroder]

Thanks Neo Ash. That's kind of what I figured but thanks for spelling it out for me.

Guess i'll have to just not use a speaker or get another amp with more channels.

 

[Yodd]

Heya folks!

Putting together a new audio setup in my new home for the game room. I am looking for a really solid 2 channel integrated amp. I am a 2 channel kinda guy...not interested in multichannel surround sound. The system will be for retro games and music listening. Maybe some newer games in the mix later on.


Couple desires:

1. Multiple analog inputs. At least 2, but 3 or more preferable.
2. Plenty of power. At least 50wpc.
3. Remote control (this rules out most of the T-Amps).
4. Would like a subwoofer out and good bass management. This will probably be the hardest request to satisfy.


I realize I might be better off with an AVR, but I am not sure how well most of them do with just 2 channel material especially with regards to bass management. They just have a lot of features (and over complications) that I don't need or want.

Budget: $400ish? Not opposed to buying used.

I have had my eye on a Cambridge Audio Azur 651A, but that's out of my price range even used. The Azur 351A is in my price range, but doesn't have the bass management and sub out.


Would like something that doesn't have a harsh sounding top end as I will be using this with a pair of new Klipsch Reference RF-62 II towers.


Thanks!

 

[Neo Ash]

$400 is a tight budget when buying new. I think you’ll be better served going pre-owned; your money will go a lot further. Cambridge Audio makes good quality products that sound great. You really can’t go wrong with any of their stuff; it all represents a fantastic value for the price point.

Your speakers are extremely efficient. 50 watts is more than enough power to drive them louder than you will most likely care to listen. What you will want to consider is, how do you like the sound of your current speakers? Most people consider horn loaded speakers a bit on the bright side. If you would like to have a smoother more laid back sound look at Rega. The current Brio-R, new, is out of your price range. However, you could pick up the older Brio 3. The Brio 3 also has a phono stage built.

Don’t get too worked up over bass management. Bass management is more of a home theater thing. Tone controls are often missing from higher end 2ch equipment, because most people set them flat (as they should). I haven’t had a preamp with tone controls in years. Also, don’t worry if there is no subwoofer output. You can simply connect the subwoofer via the high level inputs, sometimes referred to as speaker level inputs. You’ll then manage the bass with the subwoofers setting. These setting, found on the amplifier plate, will allow you to set the crossover, volume, phase, etc…etc. As you move up to the subwoofer food chain, the amount of setting options typically increases, adding options such as delay controls and extension filters.

Heya folks!

Putting together a new audio setup in my new home for the game room. I am looking for a really solid 2 channel integrated amp. I am a 2 channel kinda guy...not interested in multichannel surround sound. The system will be for retro games and music listening. Maybe some newer games in the mix later on.


Couple desires:

1. Multiple analog inputs. At least 2, but 3 or more preferable.
2. Plenty of power. At least 50wpc.
3. Remote control (this rules out most of the T-Amps).
4. Would like a subwoofer out and good bass management. This will probably be the hardest request to satisfy.


I realize I might be better off with an AVR, but I am not sure how well most of them do with just 2 channel material especially with regards to bass management. They just have a lot of features (and over complications) that I don't need or want.

Budget: $400ish? Not opposed to buying used.

I have had my eye on a Cambridge Audio Azur 651A, but that's out of my price range even used. The Azur 351A is in my price range, but doesn't have the bass management and sub out.


Would like something that doesn't have a harsh sounding top end as I will be using this with a pair of new Klipsch Reference RF-62 II towers.


Thanks!

On a side note, I’m planning on some major home theater changes. I haven’t really given the HT much love in a while. Seeing how the HT sees a lot of use for TV and movies, it’s well overdue. While I’m by no means getting rid of my Plasma TV I love, I do plan to setup a ceiling mounted project. I’m also going for a clean setup. Therefore, all the cables will be run in-wall with wall jacks to minimize the amount of visible cables. I will be moving all the equipment out of the room; I hate glowing lights, displays, and fan noise. Everything will be rack mounted in a closet. Of course the audiophile in me has kicked in; the plan is to go with electrostatic speakers. Usually, this is a bad idea for home theater due to the serious amplification requirements. But I’ve got a plan in the works for that; a big stack of amps….with balls.

 

[Yodd]

$400 is a tight budget when buying new. I think you’ll be better served going pre-owned; your money will go a lot further. Cambridge Audio makes good quality products that sound great. You really can’t go wrong with any of their stuff; it all represents a fantastic value for the price point.

It's kinda sad. You can buy 5 and even 7 channel receivers with features out the wazoo for under $400, but a good 2 channel integrated amp is hard to come by. I have found a couple that meet most my needs including a Pioneer Elite A-20 which sells new for under $300.

Your speakers are extremely efficient. 50 watts is more than enough power to drive them louder than you will most likely care to listen. What you will want to consider is, how do you like the sound of your current speakers? Most people consider horn loaded speakers a bit on the bright side. If you would like to have a smoother more laid back sound look at Rega. The current Brio-R, new, is out of your price range. However, you could pick up the older Brio 3. The Brio 3 also has a phono stage built.

I've been a Klipsch fan for over 20 years, so I am very familiar with their distinct sound. I have owned the KLF-20, RF-25's in the past. I currently own a pair of B-20 bookshelves (computer desk speakers), and even a pair of classic Forte II's. In the new place the Forte II's are hopefully going in the living room. Too bad Klipsch hasn't brought back the Forte II's as part of the Heritage line. Very underrated speakers and just fucking phenomenal dynamics. Also good at pissing off the neighbors.

Don’t get too worked up over bass management. Bass management is more of a home theater thing. Tone controls are often missing from higher end 2ch equipment, because most people set them flat (as they should). I haven’t had a preamp with tone controls in years. Also, don’t worry if there is no subwoofer output. You can simply connect the subwoofer via the high level inputs, sometimes referred to as speaker level inputs. You’ll then manage the bass with the subwoofers setting. These setting, found on the amplifier plate, will allow you to set the crossover, volume, phase, etc…etc. As you move up to the subwoofer food chain, the amount of setting options typically increases, adding options such as delay controls and extension filters.

I have never been a huge fan of attaching subwoofers via high level speaker inputs. I have always preferred a low level pre out for the sub. I have found a couple integrated amps with sub out, but most are just a mono pre-out with a fixed low pass filter (and no ability to adjust or disable it) and no bass management for the stereo speakers. Still full audio range to them with zero filtering. However the Outlaw Audio RR2150 2 channel receiver (gotta have that fm tuner i guess) does offer sub out and bass management.





Ohh and by the way Neo Ash, have you had a chance to listen to any of the T-amps? I have owned a couple for the computer setup. Fucking amazing sound considering the typically low price and low wattage.

 

[BryLmoo]

Hey guy's, long time no talk. I'm having an issue with headphones. I'm using a pair of rocnation aviators. these headphones have a volume control built into the cord. this volume control also has a center button that I THINK is used to answer a phone call? Anyways, the main problem arises when I try to use an extension cord to the mix. the extension cord makes the sound hollow, distant and tinny. The only thing that seems to remedy the problem is holding down the center button on the volume control thingy. what gives? lol

 

[BeefJerky]

Ohhhhhh snap! It's Bryan! Buy from teh Neostore, lulz.

As for your headphone problem, I think your best bet is to tape down the center button while you use the extension cord. Ghetto rig it, mang.

 

[BryLmoo]

Ohhhhhh snap! It's Bryan! Buy from teh Neostore, lulz.

As for your headphone problem, I think your best bet is to tape down the center button while you use the extension cord. Ghetto rig it, mang.

lol yes, for godsakes buy that shit from the neo-store lol
i'm an ocd motherfucker, so taping something will drive me to drink, if you catch my drift lol

 

[BeefJerky]

i'm an ocd motherfucker, so taping something will drive me to drink, if you catch my drift lol

I'm the same way dude, shit without spinecards = freak out.

But I digress, I'm not too too versed in electronic repair, but what are you plugging the extended headphones into? Also are they Skullcandies?

 

[BryLmoo]

They're skullcandy brand, yes. I'm plugging the thing into the headphone jack on my rotel amp.

 

[BeefJerky]

They're skullcandy brand, yes.

Okay, I know this won't be that helpful, but get a different brand of headphones, get some Audio Technicas, Sennheisers or Shures. I have gone through THREE sets of Skullcandy earbuds in the last 2.5 ears, shit is overpriced garbage.

 

[BryLmoo]

meh, i've been thinking about buying another pair. get's expensive, though!
edit: the phones i'm using are the nicer over the ear model that they offer. i know what you mean about cheap skullcandy stuff, but these sound great... it's bummer about the extension cord, though

 

[Neo Ash]

I've been a Klipsch fan for over 20 years, so I am very familiar with their distinct sound. I have owned the KLF-20, RF-25's in the past. I currently own a pair of B-20 bookshelves (computer desk speakers), and even a pair of classic Forte II's. In the new place the Forte II's are hopefully going in the living room. Too bad Klipsch hasn't brought back the Forte II's as part of the Heritage line. Very underrated speakers and just fucking phenomenal dynamics. Also good at pissing off the neighbors.

Those Forte II's are real classics. I went through a Single Ended Triode (SET) phase for a while. I think everyone that has been in this hobby for a while goes down that slippery slope at least once. I spent some time auditioning the Heresy III and the Cornwall III speakers at a dealer. I was very impressed with the demo. The speakers were demoed with a McIntosh 275 as I was/am very familiar with the McIntosh sound having consistently owned McIntosh equipment for the past decade. Additionally, it was the closet approximation to the tube monoblocks I would pair them with. Everything was great until I left the store. Then it hit me...man I'm glad that's over. Yup, even on that amp the highs were too bright for my taste. Needless to say I was glad I didn't immediately fork over the cash. And that is why there are so many options, everyone has different tastes.

Ohh and by the way Neo Ash, have you had a chance to listen to any of the T-amps? I have owned a couple for the computer setup. Fucking amazing sound considering the typically low price and low wattage.

You must have been looking at the Tripath based stuff. Class T was simply their variation of Class D. I'm not yet sold on Class D. Now does that mean I am turning up my nose to it? No, I simply prefer a pure Class A or Class A/B amplifier. For A/B amplifiers, I like to see a strong bias toward Class A, lets say the first 10 or so watts. I think there is a lot of great research being put into Class D. In the past I looked very closely at Bel Canto. More recently, I nearly purchase an Audio Research DS225. However, even as nice as that amp is, I still could not see my self with a Class D amp in my main dedicated listening room. Additionally, the recent issues I ran into with my other ARC amp (see the previous page in this thread) forced me to rule out the ARC. I'm sure one day I'll own a Class D amp; there are some excellent sounding amps that have come out in the last few years. The biggest problem with Class D is most people do not have a solid knowledge, or even a basic understanding, of that amplifier topology. Consequently, there's a lot of misinformed information floating around concerning Class D.

They're skullcandy brand, yes. I'm plugging the thing into the headphone jack on my rotel amp.

Yeah dude, just replace those headphones. Your Rotel will thank you.

 

[BeefJerky]

Yeah dude, just replace those headphone. Your Rotel will thank you.

Serious. You can get good Sennheiser's for about $85-100, less if you go used, and I've seen the prices on some of the Skullcandy headphones, Sennheiser can be in your price range.

http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD...9&sr=8-1&keywords=sennheiser+black+hd+280+pro

 

[GohanX]

Sounds like the extension cord isn't making full contact, it sounds like even you have the jack plugged mostly on but not all the way in. Also, if it does have a Mic it would have a three conductor cable, the extension is probably two conductor, which may be an issue.

 

[BryLmoo]

the headphone connector has 3 rings, while the extension cord only has 2. i think the remote is causing interference bc they sound perfect when i hold down the center button on the remote.

 

[Yodd]

You must have been looking at the Tripath based stuff. Class T was simply their variation of Class D. I'm not yet sold on Class D. Now does that mean I am turning up my nose to it? No, I simply prefer a pure Class A or Class A/B amplifier. For A/B amplifiers, I like to see a strong bias toward Class A, lets say the first 10 or so watts. I think there is a lot of great research being put into Class D. In the past I looked very closely at Bel Canto. More recently, I nearly purchase an Audio Research DS225. However, even as nice as that amp is, I still could not see my self with a Class D amp in my main dedicated listening room. Additionally, the recent issues I ran into with my other ARC amp (see the previous page in this thread) forced me to rule out the ARC. I'm sure one day I'll own a Class D amp; there are some excellent sounding amps that have come out in the last few years. The biggest problem with Class D is most people do not have a solid knowledge, or even a basic understanding, of that amplifier topology. Consequently, there's a lot of misinformed information floating around concerning Class D.

Yep, the Tripath stuff.

You really should pick up one of them. I have a couple of them and they really sound fantastic. I use mine with the computer. Even the cheapo $50ish ones sound great.


I think I have decided on the integrated amp. I am leaning towards a NAD C 316BEE. No sub out or bass management, but I can live without (and work around) it. I have been a NAD fan since the 80's and this looks to be a great entry level integrated amp. Stereophile, The Absolute Sound and CNET (Steve Guttenburg) have all raved about this units sound quality and value for money.