Dude you know what, and being straight shooter here with you Raz. Do whatever you want. It's your baby, you need to justify nothing. You've clarified yourself more than once, also more than once in video format too. It's goddamn amazing you got all that rolled up into one overly pretty package. If you want to leave it as is fine. If you want to make one for yourself, cool too. And if you care to make money on it, that's an option as well but you don't owe anyone dick. Do what suits you best. The fact you pulled that off is good enough as it as a proof of concept proved solidly it can be done, and it has been done, and that's what matters in the end. If you're happy with it, fine, that's who it was ultimately made for you, and it just so happened to be shared with everyone else who wanders by.
Your proof of concept is such an achievement, Raz. I mean, truly great work.
I can't properly cover all the different ways in which I find this insanely impressive, but I did want to comment back on your thought about not being a pixel artist: I think your extreme attention to detail doesn't show only in the capabilities of this software, but also in the interface you have laid out for it.
When I first saw the original video, and I still believe this, the first thought that ran through my mind was that this featured the most beautiful multi-cart interface I had ever seen. By far. It's brilliantly set up, and the way you're borrowing font and graphics makes it feel downright at home on this platform. It's crisp, pleasing, easy to read and navigate, and most of all: welcoming.
The only tweaks I'd ever consider would be in terms of background graphics (I think we can find many more beautiful options) and maybe background music (seeing this twice now, it's always the same song that actually plays in my head: https://vgmrips.net/packs/pack/garo...-and-push-till-the-end-of-hell-bonus-game-bgm). Also, I'm a big fan of the pop up version of the menu. The Neo Geo Land logo sits rather nicely on top of the window! I think it looks even better than the main instance on top of the window border.
I truly hope this project makes it to physical form some day. It is an incredible love letter to the Neo Geo in more ways than one.
Here is a youtube video of how NeoGeo Land now sits. Be sure to read the discription. remember to view at 720p60.
This is how this proof of concept stands currently (7th October), it has been this was for a few months. Bear in mind I am not a pixel artist so most is ripped including the sound fx, remember to view at 720p60 also. Game swapping is hilighted in this video and a couple of different configurations are shown to give a real feal of whats happening. Acting like a single game cart or a multislot system. Automatic game swapping (end of game attract mode), manual swapping and also swapping using the popup menu are shown. I guess changing games via the main menu is also shown.
A few people did not believe what they saw in the last video which I guess is not surprising given how well the proof of concept works. But to clarify: game swapping in this proof of concept is triggered by and coded at the 68000 level only. It is not trickery using PC and techniques to fake something that is impossible on real NeoGeo hardware. This is running on an emulation testbed (not MAME) emulating banking and port mapping as it would be on the physical hardware and nothing more.
If this was ever made, it would not be the first neogeo device to do banking or port mapping in this way. There are physical bootleg NeoGeo games and converters that do this in the same way already. It is not any new magical mojo on the hardware side. The logic controllers needed are custom bank switches to compliment the bankswitches already on the PROG and CHA boards.
The real magical mojo as I mentioned before is happening on the 68000 code side. Code acts as a interface between any bios type on the host system (MVS/AES) and games on the would be cart. This means the Bios believes there is only one game and will not overload MVS backupRAM and other bios features with data every time a different game is selected. Everything needed by the games is stored on the carts internal memory (softdips, highscores etc) and is controlled accordingly.
As I mentioned in the previous video, this may never come to anything more than it is now. This still stands. I started work on this really to simply confirm to myself that my vision of how a multicart should work on a neogeo system could actually be done. In this respect I have been 100% successfull as the potential obsticles I saw have been overcome. Everything needed to turn a single SLOT NeoGeo (MVS or AES) into a truly multi onboard game system acting identical to the MVS multislot is covered, even on the AES. All by simply plugging the cart in, no other hardware modification required.
The whole concept may stay in this state permanatly.
Best not underestimate the task, though. While the software might essentially be ready, it's a whole other project to design and manufacture the hardware and ultimately the finished product.
Leaving aside the 'check your expectations' disclaimer, I'd be downright thrilled to see this project start. Clearly, Raz will not be wanting for support and encouragement to advance this even further.
To answer the design question I think its best to say as I have said in the comments on the video. Hardware wise, this is not something that has _not_ been done before in NeoGeo bootlegs from China or a converter I could mention. For some HW geeks it would be beyound their knowledge, for others it is a peice of cake, but do they want to work on what is illegal unless it is licenced?
For me personally the hardware is not something I can do myself, I have always been open about where my talents lie. On the other side however I know exactly what the hardware must do and the way it must do it in relation to the extra parts needed over standard NeoGeo boards. Many people with greater HW experiance than myself may never think of using hardware in such a way this design would. I guess I can follow that all the way back to CPS2, there were people with far greater experiance with hardware than me saying the way I was trying to attack CPS2 was impossible. It just showed me that sometimes people lack the understanding on how hardware is utlisied even if they have a great understanding of how it works.
It all comes back to what I have said before really. Planning a product, designing that product hardware, and writing the product software are three different areas. I would class myself excellent in two of those three areas. Two out of three is good enough for me.
There's one reliable way to emerge a vision from its chrysalis, namely cutting it down to the costs of the finished product. So, at what possible price are we looking here? The more it leaves a ballpark figure, the more real it becomes. Great work so far, indeed.
That is a question I cannot answer (cost) because that is totally dependant on hardware etc. What I would say is because everything that can be done in software is done in software it greatly cuts down the need for some things that would otherwise require hardware. For example, the design does not require any type of connection between the PROG and CHR pcbs. This not only removes some production and assembly costs for example, it also removes what is a known area where faults can happen, espicaiily if their is no allowance for both PCBs to move independantly of each other. It also helps that everything is known and what is expected from the hardware is known. This means the cheapest parts can be found to do the job rather than putting something in that would maybe be more exspensive and overkill for the job it needs to do.
This means the cheapest parts can be found to do the job rather than putting something in that would maybe be more exspensive and overkill for the job it needs to do.
Rot, the software side is done complete finished. It would only be new features being added like say a jukebox player for example and better gfx/sound on that side of things or even a better UI. I feel there is no point doing this kind of addition though unless its sure the project goes forward in some way as I can spend the time doing other things.
Guys, continuing to ask when it's coming or how do we send money is not helpful at this point.
Raz is being crystal clear: for this project to go forward, he needs a partner that can actually design and make the hardware.
There must be a suitable partner somewhere who's both interested and isn't among the shady usuals. Would Krikzz be open to this, I wonder? And from right here, say Xian Xi and NeoTurfMasta, is something like this within your capabilities?
Raz, would it be possible (in terms of hardware/speed) to detach the flash content i.e. to a daughter card or socketed chip(s)?
That way the cart can be called "dev kit" instead of "illegal multicart", leaving the buyer the burden/layability of copyright infringment.
It is my understanding that keeping costs down would require flashing all the content during manifacturing but how about a daughter card which users could flash autonomously?
...an acceptable trade-off in order to keep you out of legal issues.
There are various ways things could be done. For example it could be made as a converter type device. IE sits between the NeoGeo system and 161in1 (or other multicart). You'll be limited to the games on the multicart though and what ever bugs come with that.
