If Metal Slug 4 was a fan-hack would you like it more?

[8 1/2]

I just got Metal Slug 4 (English AES) and at first I was hating it. It seems clunky and just about anything that was added looks pasted on, like the second arm drawn on for the double-heavy-machine gun. The second boss is just the freaking rocket from Metal Slug 3 with some turrets attached and the big gun from that boat-like boss of Stage 4 in Metal Slug X thrown on top. A mess. But then, somewhere, I started thinking how if some fan got ahold of the graphic files of the first 4 games and used them (as Playmore did) to create a new episode, that I would be in love with it. If this was all the work of one lone fan, working covertly in some dark basement, then my respect for what's there would soar. So in that, as a fan-hack I think it's great, as though it were an expansion pack to all the existing games and therefore wasn't real. Too bad is has the same price a real game though. There are some good ideas working here, but it lacks a lot of the polish of the original games. I do like the return to a more "real world" setting, and the guns they give you in certain situations (like giving you the iron lizard with Snowmen above and below) can make for some tense situations. It feels like one big "what if we did this?" where the programmers were fans of the series and just sat around together making up random things. Get in enemy vehicles? Put it in. Actually BE the monkey? Put it in. Replace original sound-effects with annoying pings? ugh.. put in in.

Anyway, just a thought, but if the game was made by one of the forum members here instead of an actual team of programmers, would it change your opinion?

 

[Baseley09]

Id be mightily impressed if it was a fan effort, as as a proper product, i was very unimpressed...

In its defence, ive never played past level 2, ive heard things get a lot better, true??

 

[Rade K]

Of course I would. A 'fan' on this board would not have accesses to the resources that Playmore would/did/has.

It's fucking sad that MS4 turned out the way I did. It was a quick cash in from Playmore looking to get some quick bucks coming in on the short term. MS is a name.

 

[8 1/2]

Baseley09:
Id be mightily impressed if it was a fan effort, as as a proper product, i was very unimpressed...

In its defence, ive never played past level 2, ive heard things get a lot better, true??

I definitely think it gets better. I'm trying to play on one credit only, so I've only been to stage 4 so far, but there are some nice effects and backgrounds later on. Some things remain silly throughout, like Morden in his Dr. Robotnik (straight of of Sonic 2) Robo tank, complete with saw. The little walking robot you get on is pretty cool though, and there's a nicely difficult mummy part in stage 4 that has shades of later Slug 3 stages to it. I would say to at least see it through even if that meant just credit-feeding it to see the ending.

 

[Tarma]

What do you mean if MS4 was a fan hack...?

I've started to like it more than I did tho... loco

 

[Zeekade Zarathos]

I think every game would be more appreciated if it was a fan hack, simply because it's very difficult to make a full game that could pass for a company's. You'd have to be good at the art, the design and the programming and somehow be able to put it together in your spare time while maintaining a job.

So, yeah, Metal Slug 4 would be considered amazing if it was a hack. As it is, I say it's just good.

 

[Electroman]

I also cannot help to think also that MS4 is after all walking in MS3's E-normous shadow.

What if MS3 was a flop? Would you like/respect MS4 more?

Just a philosophical thought.

Oop just another thought here after I posted, so how do you like the music in MS4? What kind of music, techno, rock, metal, what? How's the quality? (Keep in mind that I don't expect many games to rival MS3's music however)

<small>[ April 27, 2003, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: Electroman ]</small>

 

[8 1/2]

The music isn't too bad overall. The first few stages are pretty forgettable, but the stage 4 theme goes well with the action. The level has a split in it, where you can either go up into a delapidated town overrun with zombies, or you can go down into a crypt with mummies. The music here is haunting, like a cheesy horror flick, and sounds great. This stage is so far the best in the game.

BUT, and it's a big but, the sound-effects have been killed. They redid most of the sound effects for collecting things and gaining points. I don't understand why they would do this, but the first time I heard the new effect for the game tallying up the number of hostages saved I just about spit some soda on my TV. It's tinny and terribly annoying. Plus, someone thought it would be a good idea to have some text flashing over the heads of hostages that says, "help me," and when you save them it says, "thanks." Totally unneeded, and especially stupid considering the guys actually say "thank you."

 

[TheBigBB]

Come on, man. First of all, I think you misused the word "clunky". It plays EXACTLY the same as the others. There's nothing clunky about Metal Slug gameplay. Second, every slug has had some level of "cut and paste". For example, you think that the enemy chaser was brand new in Slug X? Nooo, actually, it's just the fat rocket launcher from MS2 tweaked up a bit. Don't forget that 50% of the enemies have always remained exactly the same all they way through the series and before 4. Now, truly there is more "cut and paste" in 4 than in the other new installments (not counting X) but it's mostly in mission 2. Let me guess, you didn't play all the way through? The last mission is really a fucking awesome mission and there's as much new in that mission alone as there ever was in any other slug. You have a totally new multiform boss, the new blue soldiers, the terminator soldiers, the monkey, and the rope lowering part all in that mission.

And don't forget the music... The music is all new and a lot of it is really good.

I wish people wouldn't judge the entire game by mission 2.

 

[DinoX]

The game isn't so bad, but it's definitely the weakest one of the series. But I give it a fair chance because after you beat the game and see the credits, you see korean names not Japanese names like the previous Metal Slugs.

That tells you the game was made by people with no previous experience with the series. But when you see MS1 and how well it was made, that's proof of the level of talent from the Japanese developers, because it was the first one, unlike the developers for MS4 had 4 games before to take notes on what to improve and in general to make a better game, but it still wound up as the weakest ones.

My opinion, they should have just hired the developing team from the previous games. I mean I do enjoy the game but that's when I have some coors light in my system.

 

[8 1/2]

dmhawkmoon:
Come on, man. First of all, I think you misused the word "clunky". It plays EXACTLY the same as the others.

Maybe you have a really great game that I've never played, but I have some medium-grade cart sitting in a box labeled "Metal Slug 4" and it certainly doesn't play "Exactly" like all the other Slug games. Case in point: How many times can you just inch up the screen and plug tanks before they even know you're there? I can do this repeatedly throughout the five levels I've played. The enemies don't "turn on" unless you get about halfway across the screen. This is just a minor part of a much larger problem. In the original games, you were often given a situation and given a number of ways to deal with it. Take level 4 in Slug 3. You can take the level straight up, take an easier sub route but sacfifice some hostages or go up top for the ostrich-slug. If you take the inside route, and wind up getting the walking mech slug, you again have a ton of choices. You can just blast through and kill everything, thus using up your ammo, or you can stategically hop in and out of the thing and kill the boss while still inside of it and get massive bonuses.

Metal Slug 4 never gives you this sort of freedom in its gameplay. Often it comes down to simply memorizing which little square of ground to stand in so you don't get killed. This is true of the first boss (with its gattling gun), the second boss (with the big turret), and the third boss (with its sawblade).

The point to all this, is that this sort of memorization is exactly what the Slug games have always avoided. Gone is the insane, but controlled, mayhem of blasting into an area at full speed and deftly dodging all that comes your way. Instead you have to memorize the layout and inch forward, thus tricking the enemies into not attacking.

And, as far as cut-and-paste goes, there is a world of difference between reusing the same character and weapon sprites, and literally just sticking old graphics together to make a new enemy. They even left the numbers on the sections of Metal Slug 3 rocket parts for that lame level 2 boss. All throughout the game, I just get one big deja-vu. Very little feels original, and what IS new is obviously added. The animations for the new walking slug, the monkey-transformation, the forklift and the new second arm for the double machine gun all look really homemade compared to glory of the older sprites sitting next to them. It's like someone used Mario Paint to draw all the new things.

All that said, the game is not a total waste, but it's FAR behind the old games. Hell, I'm out $200 and I don't feel sorry for my purchase, but I can't pretend it's on the same level as its younger siblings.

 

[TheBigBB]

Are you kidding? Nothing you said there makes any sense at all. Every slug game allows you to do the things you were talking about. You're talking to a guy who can get up to the final mission of any slug game on a single credit.

You want some examples of strategies in other slug games? Any boss in MS3. On the first boss, you cannon his ass for about 5 seconds and in the second form you sit all the way to the right and you never get hit. Second boss? I get to him with 40 bombs, kill the aliens with the bombs before they can shoot more than 2 times, and then run back and forth shooting the next thing. Third and fourth bosses? I get to them with a lot of laser (or shotgun) ammo and blow them up before they can attack more than 3 or 4 times. Last boss? Sit in him and knife him, jump at the right moment to avoid the shockwave, then jump off to the side to avoid the bullets that fly up. Repeat.

The screen scrolling thing can also be done a whole lot on the other slugs. BUT quite frankly, you seem to be missing the point. On Slug 4, if you scroll the screen and run into the traps, you can get a higher score because you'll get more guys to kill. Just because you and I play for lives doesn't mean that some people can't play for score. For example, why else would they put the combo item at that tank part towards the end of mission 2? They want you to do a score combo in the next part! If you just sit there and shoot the tanks before you get there, you can't do that. Now, I can get max combo score before that part so I don't do it, but certainly if you died you might want to or if you messed up the first one. Maybe it's also good for 2 player games.

Come on man, your arguments are ridiculous. I am good at the slug games partly because I have skill and partly cause I've memorized them all. You can't avoid the memorization part. I suppose you would say that Ikaruga sucks because you have to learn the levels and they don't change ever. Whatever. It's all about learning the game then being skilled. If you don't like it, fine, but you can't bash slug 4 for it and then say that the others were any different. Clearly you never mastered the others.

 

[Takumaji]

8 1/2:
[...] And, as far as cut-and-paste goes, there is a world of difference between reusing the same character and weapon sprites, and literally just sticking old graphics together to make a new enemy. They even left the numbers on the sections of Metal Slug 3 rocket parts for that lame level 2 boss. All throughout the game, I just get one big deja-vu. Very little feels original, and what IS new is obviously added. [...]

Actually I like the level 2 boss in Slug 4. Yes, the rocket is recycled from 3, but if you know the Amadeus story of Slug 4, the recycling makes sense.

 

[candycab]

I would say no , since a poor game is just that, poor no matter who created it. Personally its just too much of the same old song and dance for my tastes.

 

[8 1/2]

dmhawkmoon:


Come on man, your arguments are ridiculous. I am good at the slug games partly because I have skill and partly cause I've memorized them all. You can't avoid the memorization part. I suppose you would say that Ikaruga sucks because you have to learn the levels and they don't change ever. Whatever. It's all about learning the game then being skilled. If you don't like it, fine, but you can't bash slug 4 for it and then say that the others were any different. Clearly you never mastered the others.

Well, I suppose I'm no real master, but I've one-credited Metal Slug 1, I can make it to stage 5 in X on a credit, and I can make it pretty deep into the mothership of Slug 3 on a credit (I usually die somewhere before or after the zombie clones). So, I'm no MS ninja, but I can hold my own well enough to at least know what I'm talking about. The point isn't that memorization sucks, but rather that in a lot of parts it's the only option. The old games seem to have a lot more flexibility in the way they let you play, where in Slug 4 you're often forced to go through the motions precisely.

Ikaruga has this sort of flexibility too. Sure, to get all the chains you'd have to do some hard memorization, but you can also just play for survival and simply react to what's happening, or even beyond that, you can do the pacifist-play Dot Eater and never fire a shot.

I'm not saying that Slug 4 is total crap. It's a worthy enough game, but I think it's lacking a lot of what the older games had in terms of personality and freedom of movement. The Metal Slug series is my favorite game series ever. I bought a Neo Geo just to play a real version at home, but 4 is much like the recent Star Wars movies--all the parts are there, but the inside is just much more hollow than past efforts.

 

[TheBigBB]

Hmm, I don't know, I can't think many areas where you are forced to do it one way only...