Ideas for Slug2 and other slowdowns

[Fluff_Daddy]

I got my slug2 MVS cart today and played it on my MV-1F. Now watching my brothers friends play this game I noticed all the slowdowns (who wouldn't?). There has to be a way to get around these! What I think might work would be to replace the Slug2 engine with the SlugX engine through some serious l33t h4xx0r skillz. Is this doable? Has it already been done perhaps? But then I thought that perhaps it's more than just the engine. Maybe it won't help...

So I came up with the idea of replacing the 68K with a faster model. Probably one at double its speed, as that probably won't make the BUSes and other stuff go rampage. Perhaps someone already tried this? If so, please do tell.

If I would run Slug2 on a 24 MHz Neo, would the game play at double its normal speed or will it go to 60 fps and then not go beyond that?

A higher speed would make Twinkle Star run without slowdowns too (if it works that is). Comments, please.

 

[RabbitTroop]

<a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/files/32bit/doc/prod_brief/MC68VZ328P.pdf" target="_blank">http://e-www.motorola.com/files/32bit/doc/prod_brief/MC68VZ328P.pdf</a>

buttrock buttrock

-Nick

 

[Reznor007]

You would probably have to replace the 68000 and the clock frequency crystal. I think the game would operate ok, as if you "overclock" the 68000 to double speed in MAME, the game still runs at the proper rate, but without the skips. I think the game bases speed on Vblanks/sec.

Replacing the 12MHz crystal on the board with a 24MHz crystal might work without needing to replace the CPU, but you would want to put a heatsink on the CPU. Also, don't do this unless you are ready to maybe damage a system and then repair it(or scrap it).

 

[Decepticon]

Fluff_Daddy:
I got my slug2 MVS cart today and played it on my MV-1F. Now watching my brothers friends play this game I noticed all the slowdowns (who wouldn't?). There has to be a way to get around these! What I think might work would be to replace the Slug2 engine with the SlugX engine through some serious l33t h4xx0r skillz. Is this doable? Has it already been done perhaps? But then I thought that perhaps it's more than just the engine. Maybe it won't help...

So I came up with the idea of replacing the 68K with a faster model. Probably one at double its speed, as that probably won't make the BUSes and other stuff go rampage. Perhaps someone already tried this? If so, please do tell.

If I would run Slug2 on a 24 MHz Neo, would the game play at double its normal speed or will it go to 60 fps and then not go beyond that?

A higher speed would make Twinkle Star run without slowdowns too (if it works that is). Comments, please.

There is no slowdown, its just bullet time on the Neo.

Hopefully SNKPlaymore does a raid of the Warner Brothers lot and holds them up for another conversion job.

 

[JAMMASLOT]

Reznor007:

Replacing the 12MHz crystal on the board with a 24MHz crystal might work without needing to replace the CPU, but you would want to put a heatsink on the CPU. Also, don't do this unless you are ready to maybe damage a system and then repair it(or scrap it).

I don't think it's possible because the mc68000 can't run at 24Mhz.. And what about the ram acces time?
oh_no

 

[GohanX]

Wouldn't it be easier to just buy Metal Slug X? It's almost the same game minus most of the slowdown.

 

[The Auction Sniper]

Geezus, we're talking about a 12Mhz system here, when the limits of the system are pushed, of course there's going to be slowdown.

Just look at Sengoku - one of the launch titles. There is a small amount of slowdown when you kil several enemies at once because they scale and shrink when they are killed (eats up a lot of processing power).

Just be thankful that they can still program magnificent games on such a small sized processor ;D

 

[Reznor007]

JAMMASLOT:

Reznor007:

Replacing the 12MHz crystal on the board with a 24MHz crystal might work without needing to replace the CPU, but you would want to put a heatsink on the CPU. Also, don't do this unless you are ready to maybe damage a system and then repair it(or scrap it).

I don't think it's possible because the mc68000 can't run at 24Mhz.. And what about the ram acces time?
oh_no

There actually are 24MHz 68000's. Some later arcade boards used them.

 

[JAMMASLOT]

Reznor007:

JAMMASLOT:

Reznor007:

Replacing the 12MHz crystal on the board with a 24MHz crystal might work without needing to replace the CPU, but you would want to put a heatsink on the CPU. Also, don't do this unless you are ready to maybe damage a system and then repair it(or scrap it).

I don't think it's possible because the mc68000 can't run at 24Mhz.. And what about the ram acces time?
oh_no

There actually are 24MHz 68000's. Some later arcade boards used them.

Yes, but the neogeo 68000 is 13 years old, and i don't thing THIS cpu is able to run at 24Mhz eek!

AND what about the ram acces time ?

edit: and also the timers and the hardware co-processors ...

<small>[ August 12, 2003, 02:47 AM: Message edited by: JAMMASLOT ]</small>

 

[RabbitTroop]

Reznor007:

JAMMASLOT:

Reznor007:

Replacing the 12MHz crystal on the board with a 24MHz crystal might work without needing to replace the CPU, but you would want to put a heatsink on the CPU. Also, don't do this unless you are ready to maybe damage a system and then repair it(or scrap it).

I don't think it's possible because the mc68000 can't run at 24Mhz.. And what about the ram acces time?
oh_no

There actually are 24MHz 68000's. Some later arcade boards used them.

Dude, no one read my link... shame on you all...

-Nick

 

[JAMMASLOT]

I read your link but this cpu is able to drive LCD screen and other things... I'm not sure this kind of cpu is 100% the same...

 

[RabbitTroop]

Well, the DragonBall CPUs should work since they are fully M68000 compatible. I don't think SNK used any custom chips, so, it should address properly. And... the DragonBall VZ is a cool 33mhz. I am not sure how the board would handle it, since the bus will not change, but it would be interesting... you may get 20mhz out of it or so. Will it be enough to make a difference... I have no idea, and will it work with all games... again, I don't know... You are bound to run into some oddness, hell even Playmore is having trouble coding for all the revs of the MVS boards... look at the ROTD problems, timing and some other factors may go to hell and will cause a game to completly take a shit. However, if someone wants to try it, I'd love to hear the results,

-Nick

 

[JAMMASLOT]

nruva:
I'd love to hear the results,

-Nick

Me too !
And you forgot there is also a Z80 CPU inside my favorit hardware!
The RAM must be able to run 3 times faster!!!
I don't think the neogeo RAM can do this. crying

 

[MrLonghair]

How fast is the 68k on the MV-1FZ compared to the MV-1?

 

[Atro]

MrLonghair:
How fast is the 68k on the MV-1FZ compared to the MV-1?

All the Neo Geo boards have the same cpu.

They don't change with models.

it's ALWAYS 12MHz.

 

[Fluff_Daddy]

Decepticon:
There is no slowdown, its just bullet time on the Neo.

Hopefully SNKPlaymore does a raid of the Warner Brothers lot and holds them up for another conversion job.

That's what I tell them too!

GohanX:
Wouldn't it be easier to just buy Metal Slug X? It's almost the same game minus most of the slowdown.

And exactly how cool would that be?


Someone was speaking of BUSes and stuff and I was thinking... What if this replacement CPU is justa faster model but with the same BIS speeds. Wouldn't that make it all a helluva lot easier?
And the new CPU doesn't HAVE to be @24 MHz... Just a little bit more so that most slug2 slow... er... "bullettime" dissapears

 

[Reznor007]

JAMMASLOT:

nruva:
I'd love to hear the results,

-Nick

Me too !
And you forgot there is also a Z80 CPU inside my favorit hardware!
The RAM must be able to run 3 times faster!!!
I don't think the neogeo RAM can do this. crying

Well, it's worth a shot to experiment. If anything you can replace the RAM with a faster equivalent. The Z80 shouldn't matter unless it uses the same crystal to base its clock on.

 

[JAMMASLOT]

I think you have to change the RAM yes.
Also the Z80 with a faster one: so 16 Mhz (i don't know if it exists)
And a faster 68k (24 Mhz of course)
Change the quartz too...

Who want to try this .? make_fac

edit: I'm sure the Z80 is inside the neo for displaying the level, energy, credits, the time etc. Perhaps also for the music.

<small>[ August 12, 2003, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: JAMMASLOT ]</small>

 

[Reznor007]

The Z80 is used only for music/sound effects.

 

[Razoola]

You wouldent necesarly need to change the ram though thats an option if there are still slowdowns once cpu is replaced. A 24mhz 68k should easily be enough to run games at full speed without any slowdowns. You will just need the new 68k and clock plus some tinkering if the z80 speed is calculated off the same clock so you dont overclock that.

Raz

 

[Fluff_Daddy]

Could someone enlight me to how this whole crystal thing works? I know I've heard it before, but I don't know how it actually works.

 

[Reznor007]

It's a small component on the board the controls how fast a chip operates at. Just look at some PCB's to get an idea. Look near a Z80 chip and you will often see a component with 3.57MHz marked on it.

 

[Fluff_Daddy]

You think it might work if I just switched that?

 

[RabbitTroop]

Fluff_Daddy:
You think it might work if I just switched that?

You can run the crystal at faster speeds... it sometimes has adverse effects, overheating... crashing, etc... but, you could try it and see what happens.. it wouldn't do any damage to the board to upclock the crystal clock.

-Nick

 

[hardware_hack]

How much smt is used on the aes boards? Is there a difference between revisions? What about the old old one slots? It might be worth a shot if I can get one of the boards cheap enough.

Also, can anyone check the package of the 68k in their mvs/aes? I.E. does the chip have pins going through the board or does it look glued on?