Help with AES / best way to output to HDTV

[streetwaves]

Hey guys, I don't want to mod my AES just yet but I'd like to get better picture than the crappy composite. I see there are RGB SCART cables on ebay, but my HDTV doesn't seem to have a SCART input, but it does have VGA/HDMI/S-Video/etc. Is there some way I can buy the RGB cable and use an adapter to something else and will that screw the picture up or anything? Newb question maybe, but thanks in advance!

 

[Fritz]

There are tons of upscalers and converters our there, but I don't know if its a good idea to go composite -> s-video / component. Wouldnt that degrade the video quality somewhat by using composite first? I think you want to tap the RGB signal directly, ie like the JROK encoder. I am no expert so someone can correct me on that if I have it all wrong.

You said you dont want to do any modding, but I suggest the s-video AES mod. It takes advantage of the onboard sony encoder, so all you have to do is buy the kit Xian XI sells for $14.99 and follow the step by step guide on his site.

 

[Xian Xi]

For HDTV the best option is an XRGB but it comes at a price. From what others have said you will spend about $300 minimum for something plug and play.

 

[Mr.Kevums]

You really don't have many options when it comes to outputs on a non-modded console.

 

[streetwaves]

I'd consider modding it but I've never soldered anything before. It looks like from what you guys have said that modding would probably be the most cost-effective by far, though.

 

[Fritz]

Problem is still you may need an upscaler like the xrgb even with a JROK/NEOBITZ modded console. Depending on your specific HDTV it may or may not like the frequency and give you display issues like a blinking screen.

On my specific HDTV the JROK and Neobitz wont work. The s-video mod did work, although with a very small graphical glitch.

 

[FusionITR]

I'm not sure why so many people want to do this.

Neo Geo (or any low res console) going to look like shit no matter what even if you feed pure rgb into you TV due to the fact that your HDTV has to scale the image to fit it's fixed pixel resolution. Built in TV scalers generally are on the cheap.

Your best bet is XRGB as its scaler is made for low res content.

 

[Hewitson]

I don't agree with that at all. My Panasonics have a lovely picture with old consoles and computers.

 

[ghibben]

I was obsessed with getting it working on my HDTV. Never found anything that worked. So I just kept my CRT set up on another stand, its easier that way.

 

[Hewitson]

I reckon everyone who complains about the picture on a decent quailty LCD/Plasma has been too stupid to turn down the sharpness.

ghibben: What was the problem? A sync cleaner should fix most issues.

 

[Artemio]

Properly upscaled/upscanned RGB looks awesome on an LCD, I use an XRGB-3 and it is indeed vastly superior to composite. You would need an XRGB, a Neo Geo RGB-21 cable (japanese one) and a VGA or DVI cable.

Another cheaper option (but without scanlines and other options) is using one of these, they are nice enough and cheap. The only mod you would need to do is to an RGB-21 RGB cable, you would need to tap those lines (RGB and S) and plug them in, it works ok and outputs VGA.

http://www.jammaboards.com/store/cga/ega/yuv-to-vga-converter-pcb-gbs-8220/prod_291.html

Here is a link to the XRGB wiki that we've been creating:

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB-3

The excellent http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/ which has all teh info on 240p signals and playing them on progressive displays.

An article i wrote (in Spanish, but pics should be enough in order to compare the different signals on a Samsung LN46a950 LCD/LED)

http://snatcher.typepad.com/blog/20...actual-sin-que-se-vea-horrible-y-sin-lag.html

And a flickr pool with screenshots of the XRGB-3 in action with several consoles and arcade boards:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/artemiourbina/sets/72157618847413089/

 

[shadows]

There was a post on a german forum talking about another new piece of hardware, that some members were working on that would cost around 100$
Anyone knows if that went anywhere?


Another option if you want to keep things cheaper is to buy one of these.
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=220698772855&index=3&nav=SEARCH&nid=36477560571

Works really well, imo.

 

[supergoose]

a full blown "aes" (i prefer ngh) mod would cost you at least $100 to $150 in parts alone. you'd probaly have to add another $50, if you didn't want to do the mod yourself.
i would just get a xrgb instead. i like scanlines.

There was a post on a german forum talking about another new piece of hardware, that some members were working on that would cost around 100$
Anyone knows if that went anywhere?

can you post a link please? i'm german and could try to translate or at least post a short summary in engrish.

Another option if you want to keep things cheaper is to buy one of these.
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=220698772855&index=3&nav=SEARCH&nid=36477560571

Works really well, imo.

that's the hd box pro? Fudoh (member of the shmups forums) said they were good.

 

[ChuChu Flamingo]

As others have mentioned, some HDTVs do not like 240p over Component and misinterpret it as 480i, thus deinterlacing a progressive source causing a plethora of problems.

Great way to check if your TV can do 240p over component is to pop in a PS1 title on a PS2 hooked up through component.

If it can do 240p over component, then a simple CSY2100 is all you will need, which converts RGB to YUV.

I would go S-video route as that will probably be the cheapest.

 

[shadows]

can you post a link please? i'm german and could try to translate or at least post a short summary in engrish.

ill try to find the link again

that's the hd box pro? Fudoh (member of the shmups forums) said they were good.

its a clone of the CSY2100 But its really well made

 

[Xian Xi]

The Neo via Component is 480i just in case some people didn't know.

 

[rcantor77]

The Neo via Component is 480i just in case some people didn't know.

Is that the same as a Neo using an RGB Euro Scart or does that output at 576i?

 

[Artemio]

Is that the same as a Neo using an RGB Euro Scart or does that output at 576i?

The Neo via RGB-21 is 240p...

 

[FusionITR]

The Neo via Component is 480i just in case some people didn't know.

Not possible as native neo is "240p"

(I use 240p in quotes since it's not an official resolution/standard. It's really a non-standard 480i mode that newer tvs don't know how to handle).

 

[Xian Xi]

Not possible as native neo is "240p"

(I use 240p in quotes since it's not an official resolution/standard. It's really a non-standard 480i mode that newer tvs don't know how to handle).

So then my 2 TVs and projector are wrong?

I know it should be 240p but I'm guessing it's upscaled or just converted to 480i.

 

[FusionITR]

So then my 2 TVs and projector are wrong?

Yes or you're mis-reading the information.

How are you even getting component out of your neo? It naively puts outs rgb @ "240p". If you're using a straight converter (no upscaler) it's still going to be 240p as component.

Your tv may say "480i" because 240p is just 480i with just the the odd fields showing instead of both even and odd fields.

 

[Xian Xi]

Yes or you're mis-reading the information.

How are you even getting component out of your neo? It naively puts outs rgb @ "240p". If you're using a straight converter (no upscaler) it's still going to be 240p as component.

Your tv may say "480i" because 240p is just 480i with just the the odd fields showing instead of both even and odd fields.

Ya I'm guessing it converts to the lowest signal input, maybe all of them don't have 240p and 480i is the lowest one available.

Component via Neobitz and JROK.

 

[FusionITR]

Ya I'm guessing it converts to the lowest signal input, maybe all of them don't have 240p and 480i is the lowest one available.

Component via Neobitz and JROK.

Ive seen the neobitz and jrok board (but never used it) and I'm 99% sure they don't do any scaling since both boards dont have any uprocessors on them. Hook up your neo to a standard definition crt, if you see scanlines it's 240p.

 

[rcantor77]

So any RGB output Component or 21-pin Scart is outputting at 240p... I never realized it was that low a resolution.

But doesn't a Jamma MVS output at 640x480 or is it the same as the AES system?
If it is true VGA, then a Consolized MVS would output at a higher resolution than the home system?

 

[FusionITR]

So any RGB output Component or 21-pin Scart is outputting at 240p... I never realized it was that low a resolution.

From what I understand RGB is SCART is always 240p because it uses composite video for the sync. If it's just component by itself (not from a neo) it can be any resolution from 240p to 1080i.

But doesn't a Jamma MVS output at 640x480 or is it the same as the AES system?
If it is true VGA, then a Consolized MVS would output at a higher resolution than the home system?

From what I understand JAMMA is only 15.7KHz and 24KHz. I don't think there are any JAMMA games that output 640x480 at the JAMMA connector (usually they use a DB15). All MVS output 240p.