Dark Souls

[LWK]

Yeah, I didn't like Demon Souls at all. I can take hard games... Hell I like a really hard and challenging game, but 90% of the challenge in Demon Souls came from horrible controls and a bad controller layout overall. Not to mention it was bland and boring to me. I just didn't get into it at all. I think I went into it expecting way too much. I heard everyone on this site going on and on about how great it was, and then when I got it I just saw a run of the mill and average PC RPG that nobody would have even mentioned had it not been a PS3 exclusive. It put me off so much, I don't even know if I'll bother with renting Dark Souls... Yeah, Demon Souls was that bad for me.

Are you serious? That game is awesome. I didn't feel the controls were horrible.

The game isn't that hard actually. You need to learn the patterns of things. Its a highly rewarding game. The more you play, the easier it becomes. Just be ready to grind.

 

[Castor Troy]

Demon's Souls was awesome. I didn't like it at first, but then the game clicked. The final boss in Level 3-3 (no spoilers) was a pleasant surprise. It was one of my best video game experiences this generation. Fought for what seemed like hours and I barely managed to defeat the boss.

Spoiler:

Chatted with the guy who I faced off afterwards for a bit. Dude was pretty cool and gave me some valuable gaming advice. I wish more games took this multiplayer route.

 

[Jedah Doma]

Are you serious? That game is awesome. I didn't feel the controls were horrible.

The game isn't that hard actually. You need to learn the patterns of things. Its a highly rewarding game. The more you play, the easier it becomes. Just be ready to grind.

Nruva's sentiments are right on. Compared to other third person games, Demon's Souls controls terribly. It was only "difficult" because of archaic controls and poor gameplay. Beyond the piss poor controls, I'd say the game is very easy and requires very little skill.

It's yet another grind fest that merely requires time and mashing one button. No true skill besides the slow roll every now and again. It's all about stat bumping. For instance to kill a certain enemy, I had to grind to get my level up. It had nothing to do with skill and everything to do with dull and non-skillful grinding. No learning patterns or improving your skills as a gamer, just griiiiiind. Same issue Oblivion had. Just mash that button on an enemy until it dies. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I mean the fact I can hide from afar and kill a boss by spamming arrows with no fear of damage is pathetic.

I see this game as a simple ego boost. You're not really good at the game, you've just got a lot of time to grind and get stats up. Has nothing to do with skill.

Give me a game that requires actual hand eye coordination and skill like Bayonetta any day over Demon's Souls.

 

[Taiso]

I changed my mind.

Demon's Souls is an awesome action RPG. Very well designed and conceived from top to bottom.

I am all in on Dark Souls. See you all online in October.

 

[genjiglove]

Why is it considered a bad thing to have to level up in a RPG?

 

[HeartlessNinny]

I'm a little surprised people are saying the controls in Demon's Souls were bad. That's not the experience I had.

 

[Poonman]

I just watched 4 hours of a guy playing through the first area. The whole fucking thing is like cock and ball torture; and it doesn't really seem to let up that much either.

The player kinda sucked in the beginning, then cleaned up his act a bit and even then I was cringing at how bad the game railroaded him for all his time and effort.

I swear it was like watching 4 hours of a dude getting kicked in the nuts.


Anyway, here's a link to the vid(s): http://www.twitch.tv/vxds210/b/295530165
and don't worry too much about spoilers, he doesn't get much done lol.

 

[Eric]

I found it funny that when you parried and countered the enemy would be teleported to the correct spot for the counter animation.

 

[subcons]

It's yet another grind fest that merely requires time and mashing one button. No true skill [...]

It's fine if you don't like the game, but you simply couldn't be more fucking wrong. The game really doesn't require grinding at all. It rewards skill and knowledge of the game over everything else. Go watch speed plays of people finishing the entire game in 45-60 minutes and you'll see that this is in fact the reality of the situation and that you just blow at the game. Understanding the game mechanics and enemy patterns as well as a good sense of timing make all the difference in Demon's Souls.

Demon's Souls hands me my own ass, but I don't make lame excuses as to why it does. I just need to get better at the game through playing it more.

 

[cannonball]

Nruva's sentiments are right on. Compared to other third person games, Demon's Souls controls terribly. It was only "difficult" because of archaic controls and poor gameplay. Beyond the piss poor controls, I'd say the game is very easy and requires very little skill.

It's yet another grind fest that merely requires time and mashing one button. No true skill besides the slow roll every now and again. It's all about stat bumping. For instance to kill a certain enemy, I had to grind to get my level up. It had nothing to do with skill and everything to do with dull and non-skillful grinding. No learning patterns or improving your skills as a gamer, just griiiiiind. Same issue Oblivion had. Just mash that button on an enemy until it dies. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I mean the fact I can hide from afar and kill a boss by spamming arrows with no fear of damage is pathetic.

I see this game as a simple ego boost. You're not really good at the game, you've just got a lot of time to grind and get stats up. Has nothing to do with skill.

Give me a game that requires actual hand eye coordination and skill like Bayonetta any day over Demon's Souls.

No wonder you had to grind and level up...you just mashed 1 button. You were just doing it wrong, that's all. The controls were actually very responsive and it was very possible to beat all of the stages at extremely low levels. I only leveled up my pvp chars when I needed a specific stat number for a weapon I wanted to use for that build, keeping my char as low lvl as possible to wreck havoc on newbies.

But to not grind, you need to use the tools available and not just spam 1 button.

 

[Jedah Doma]

It's fine if you don't like the game, but you simply couldn't be more fucking wrong. The game really doesn't require grinding at all. It rewards skill and knowledge of the game over everything else. Go watch speed plays of people finishing the entire game in 45-60 minutes and you'll see that this is in fact the reality of the situation and that you just blow at the game. Understanding the game mechanics and enemy patterns as well as a good sense of timing make all the difference in Demon's Souls.

Demon's Souls hands me my own ass, but I don't make lame excuses as to why it does. I just need to get better at the game through playing it more.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you there. Compared to a game like Bayonetta, Dark Souls requires minimum skill IMO. Sure you can roll if you feel like it, but most of the time moving back and forth while hitting an enemy works just fine. Combine that with the laundry list of cheap and glitchy ways to kill enemies/bosses and you've got a recipe for sleep. Speed runs? I'm just talking about playing the game normally, not speed runs. And yes, this game is all about leveling up. It's a mindless grind fest for the next level. You wanna talk about tough and speed runs requiring skill in Demon's Souls? Give me a ring when you can beat Bayonetta on non-stop climax mode with pure platinum trophies and tell me about skill my friend.

I can play and or beat Demon' Souls with no problem. Like I said, it demands little skill.

No wonder you had to grind and level up...you just mashed 1 button. You were just doing it wrong, that's all. The controls were actually very responsive and it was very possible to beat all of the stages at extremely low levels. I only leveled up my pvp chars when I needed a specific stat number for a weapon I wanted to use for that build, keeping my char as low lvl as possible to wreck havoc on newbies.

But to not grind, you need to use the tools available and not just spam 1 button.

Then please, explain to me the infinitely deep and wondrous combat system Demon's Souls introduced to the gaming world that I have somehow missed.

 

[Taiso]

So Demon's Souls isn't your type of game. I respect that.

I don't see how that suddenly makes it a bad or poorly designed game.

And to compare it to Bayonetta? Man, that's like taking my little league home run numbers and comparing them to Babe Ruth's entire career.

Bayonetta is an action combat game designed by Hideki Kamiya, arguably the best in the biz at that kind of game. It is designed specifically to be an energetic, twitch based gaming experience.

Demon's Souls is an action RPG. It's an entirely different beast altogether, with a different type of mechanic and a different type of skill set.

So you prefer Bayonetta over Demon's Souls. No one can fault you for that. That's your thing.

But people like this game and have cited plenty of reasons why it's a sublime offering of its game type.

Jedah, I have nothing bad to say about you, but Ninny's right. You *do* tend to bomb into threads and drop needless hate. Not trolling, just an observation.

 

[subcons]

I'm not quite getting the comparison to Bayonetta either, but any who...

How is a speed run not "playing the game normally" exactly? You obviously haven't even bothered to look at one. But I can't really fault you for that because you apparently don't like the game, so I don't expect you to sit and watch an hour long video of it.

The point I was trying to make is that there is absolutely no need to grind in DS, which is a major thing you seem to be harping on. The game rewards knowledge and skill over everything else. But you claim the game doesn't require skill because you utilized grinding to make things easier when you played through it, in turn boring yourself in the process?

And people that understand the game and are skilled at it don't exploit the AI. They just steamroll through it because they're good enough to do that. They make it look easy when it's not. The reason people exploit the AI in any game is usually because it's too hard for them.

 

[Jedah Doma]

So Demon's Souls isn't your type of game. I respect that.

I don't see how that suddenly makes it a bad or poorly designed game.

And to compare it to Bayonetta? Man, that's like taking my little league home run numbers and comparing them to Babe Ruth's entire career.

Bayonetta is an action combat game designed by Hideki Kamiya, arguably the best in the biz at that kind of game. It is designed specifically to be an energetic, twitch based gaming experience.

Demon's Souls is an action RPG. It's an entirely different beast altogether, with a different type of mechanic and a different type of skill set.

So you prefer Bayonetta over Demon's Souls. No one can fault you for that. That's your thing.

But people like this game and have cited plenty of reasons why it's a sublime offering of its game type.

Jedah, I have nothing bad to say about you, but Ninny's right. You *do* tend to bomb into threads and drop needless hate. Not trolling, just an observation.

For me it has nothing to do with being my type of game or not. I certainly have those genres I personally enjoy and those I don't. I'm not into WoW, but I can certainly see the appeal the game has for others.

Sure, Bayonetta is a different type of game, but good games are good games. I feel Bayonetta is an example of a well designed game with perfectly implemented gameplay. Demon's Souls is an example or a poorly designed game with poor controls and gameplay.

Bomb threads? My friend I'm simply stating my opinion. Do I word my opinion strongly? Sure, but in these forums who doesn't? I feel the game is overhyped rubbish. Hey if someone wants to play the game, I'm not stopping them.

It seems folks around here aren't too keen on negative opinions of their sacred cows. The thread is titled "Dark Souls" not "The infinite Dark Souls praise thread". ^_^

I'm not quite getting the comparison to Bayonetta either, but any who...

How is a speed run not "playing the game normally" exactly? You obviously haven't even bothered to look at one. But I can't really fault you for that because you apparently don't like the game, so I don't expect you to sit and watch an hour long video of it.

The point I was trying to make is that there is absolutely no need to grind in DS, which is a major thing you seem to be harping on. The game rewards knowledge and skill over everything else. But you claim the game doesn't require skill because you utilized grinding to make things easier when you played through it, in turn boring yourself in the process?

And people that understand the game and are skilled at it don't exploit the AI. They just steamroll through it because they're good enough to do that. They make it look easy when it's not. The reason people exploit the AI in any game is usually because it's too hard for them.

My point was Bayonetta is a better made game IMO.

Past my complaint about grinding, there are a myriad of other issues with the game. I've not only played Demon's Souls for hours myself, but watched a good friend play the game for countless hours on JTV.

Part of the game is grinding. Getting your levels up, getting better stats, the world tendency you want, weapons, the whole nine yards. I personally tried the skill route and wasn't impressed with the gameplay system. Clicking in the right analog stick to lock on to someone? Awful idea when that same stick is used to control the camera. Like I said, that's just one of the issues with the game.

 

[Taiso]

For me it has nothing to do with being my type of game or not. I certainly have those genres I personally enjoy and those I don't. I'm not into WoW, but I can certainly see the appeal the game has for others.

Sure, Bayonetta is a different type of game, but good games are good games. I feel Bayonetta is an example of a well designed game with perfectly implemented gameplay. Demon's Souls is an example or a poorly designed game with poor controls and gameplay.

I think if you'd have said this from the start, exactly this, no one would have questioned your objectivity.

Bomb threads? My friend I'm simply stating my opinion. Do I word my opinion strongly? Sure, but in these forums who doesn't? I feel the game is overhyped rubbish. Hey if someone wants to play the game, I'm not stopping them.

I think it's one thing if you're a mouth breather who doesn't know how to express himself intelligently. But you're a smarter guy than that.

Furthermore, I think you know that your comments are going to invite a little fighting on the subject before you actually click 'Reply.' I think you're fully aware of that.

It seems folks around here aren't too keen on negative opinions of their sacred cows. The thread is titled "Dark Souls" not "The infinite Dark Souls praise thread". ^_^

People raise up a game like Demon's Souls because it provides them with an experience that they feel transcends the medium for reasons already cited. It's a noteworthy game to them, above the normal fare, for specific reasons. And while you have the right to disregard their thoughts, the game affects them on the same level that Bayonetta affects you.

You reach an apex of the action combat genre with Bayonetta. There is something about it that makes you elevate it to a special place. If I were to start shitting all over that game, calling it an overrated piece of crap and 'not all that' and a boring button masher, I am but certain you would defend it as a transcendent game and explain to me why I was wrong. The game is something that, five years from now, you will still look back on fondly because it made a mark with you.

These people are talking about Demon's Souls in the same way. And it's not just the opinion of a few people here at NG.com. The game has universal appeal in the niche the genre provides.

Much like Bayonetta is a stellar example of its particular niche.

 

[Jedah Doma]

I think if you'd have said this from the start, exactly this, no one would have questioned your objectivity.

I think it's one thing if you're a mouth breather who doesn't know how to express himself intelligently. But you're a smarter guy than that.

Furthermore, I think you know that your comments are going to invite a little fighting on the subject before you actually click 'Reply.' I think you're fully aware of that.

I'm not here looking for a fight, just simply stating my opinion. If I was here for the lulz I'd save myself some time and post something from 4chan.

People raise up a game like Demon's Souls because it provides them with an experience that they feel transcends the medium for reasons already cited. It's a noteworthy game to them, above the normal fare, for specific reasons. And while you have the right to disregard their thoughts, the game affects them on the same level that Bayonetta affects you.

You reach an apex of the action combat genre with Bayonetta. There is something about it that makes you elevate it to a special place. If I were to start shitting all over that game, calling it an overrated piece of crap and 'not all that' and a boring button masher, I am but certain you would defend it as a transcendent game and explain to me why I was wrong. The game is something that, five years from now, you will still look back on fondly because it made a mark with you.

These people are talking about Demon's Souls in the same way. And it's not just the opinion of a few people here at NG.com. The game has universal appeal in the niche the genre provides.

Much like Bayonetta is a stellar example of its particular niche.

And you would be totally in the right to have the opinion that Bayonetta was garbage. That's the wild wonderful world of opinions for you. I simply feel there are far too many bad things about Demon's Souls that outweigh the few good.

 

[subcons]

Soo... any ways. I just went ahead and pre-ordered the 360 version. Friend I've been playing through DS with went ahead and did so yesterday when he picked up Gears so I'm pretty much dedicated to that version now. Hopefully it turns out to being a good port. Most of the vids I've seen are making out to be quite comparable to the lead, PS3 version of the game.

This is it until Skyrim. I'm going to have to catch up on all these other games coming out after the holidays. Hopefully there will be a slight drought. I'm thinking there won't though with some stuff getting pushed back to '12.

 

[Taiso]

I am getting it for PS3. I'm really looking forward to getting in on the ground level with this one and experiencing it from the beginning of the community experience.

 

[cannonball]

Then please, explain to me the infinitely deep and wondrous combat system Demon's Souls introduced to the gaming world that I have somehow missed.

I never said it was deep and wondrous. It's simply more complex than spamming 1 button like you admitted to attempting to use to face roll through the game. Like most decent games, you have to know when to attack, dodge, defend, parry, use a specific spell, or simply run away. Is your ignorance towards these concepts just trolling or do you truly not understand them? What fun would a game be if you could be successful playing it how you are intending to?

 

[Average Joe]

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/119/1195770p1.html

hilarious

 

[Taiso]

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/119/1195770p1.html

hilarious

I love this. It shows a really playful and inventive side to the developer. They aren't issuing corporate mandates or denying people the right to sue anyone or demanding the IPs of anyone that accessed 'such and such' websites early.

They're basically shooting right back and saying 'Okay, assholes. You wanna cheat? We can cheat, too! Isn't this fun?'

Love it.

 

[cannonball]

They must be having fun over at From Software right now. I would have pulled an all nighter invading pre-release date games.

 

[subcons]

Black Phantoms with 99 stats across the board. That's fucking awesome.

 

[Jedah Doma]

I never said it was deep and wondrous. It's simply more complex than spamming 1 button like you admitted to attempting to use to face roll through the game. Like most decent games, you have to know when to attack, dodge, defend, parry, use a specific spell, or simply run away. Is your ignorance towards these concepts just trolling or do you truly not understand them? What fun would a game be if you could be successful playing it how you are intending to?

It's really not all that difficult. It's hit, move, hit, move. So two inputs, hitting one button and THEN moving the stick. My bad. That simple strategy got me through the game without fail. No ignorance, just a realization Demon's Souls is a game with weak game mechanics. Simple as that.

 

[BryLmoo]

I've had a 50$ GameStop gift card sitting in my wallet since April, I might bite the bullet and use it on this... or KoF13? decisions decisions...