Cave has a new shmup on the way!

[Poison Sama]

http://kotaku.com/5039738/character-illustrations-for-caves-new-shooting-game

I love what I see.

 

[bay]

KAWAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!

 

[Weevus]

Doesn't do me much good. Who can afford these boards?

 

[Jesterzzn]

Doesn't do me much good. Who can afford these boards?

Well its not really much more than a severe coke habit.

 

[KagerouSama]

Coke habit? Pfft, that's nothing.

I had to have, like, 14 interventions for my $20,000 a day habit.

Thats right...


























Fabergé Eggs.

 

[Silky Johnson]

kimochi~~



kodomo... give me strenght!

 

[Professor Denim]

Hope they release it on console!but i doubt it...

 

[ironish]

Hope they release it on console!but i doubt it...

Well here's a good article about the whole Cave ports issue:

http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2008/03/28/2-of-the-greatest-shmups-rejected-for-xbla-by-ms/

With news of Ikaruga's imminent release, and the previous release of Triggerheart Exelica, it would seem to the casual observer that XBLA would be a great place for screen-scrolling shooters. Well, this is not quite so. In the most recent issue of Famitsu, 5pb, the developers in charge of porting Cave's Dodonpachi Daioujou Black Label X and Ketsui X, speak out about their experience with Microsoft's Live Arcade decision making division, and the account sounds eerily similar to the tale told by the developers of N+.

In a nutshell, Microsoft told 5pb that they could not put their games on Live Arcade due to the fact that Microsoft is "going to cut down on faithful arcade ports." So 5pb will have to put their two games out via traditional retail channels, but they're quite understandably frustrated and would prefer to bring these two arcade games, and more, to market via XBLA instead of via disc. And this is still horrible news in that it backs up Metanet's assertion that there are problems deciding what content makes it onto XBLA.

Hit the break for the full statement from Cave.


"Out initial plan was to port lots of good arcade titles to XBLA. We talked to IP holders of these titles, and persuaded them. We secured these licenses, and finally talked with Microsoft. There they rejected all of our proposals saying, 'We are going to cut down faithful arcade ports.' We felt so frustrated. We wanted to show them that their decision was wrong. So we switched our two most promising projects into retail."

Update: The comments were made by Masaki Sakari of 5pb, not Cave.

Frustrating, ...very frustrating. They should seriously reconsider doing PS3 ports, or at least make it for sure region free. IMO there will be less people willing to import a whole new system than those that were willing to mod their PS2s for imports.

Plus weren't Ketsui and Dodonpachi BL supposed to come out about now?

 

[lgb]

More like consider Wii ports.

 

[bokmeow]

I'm a tad disappointed.

I wish the character were more like Doki Doki Majo Shinpan and less like DearS super-deformed characters.

I'll firm up my assessment after seeing some vids of the schmup though.

 

[ironish]

More like consider Wii ports.

I think they aren't going with the Wii because it's not powerful enough. The PS2 started to run out of steam trying to run the latest Cave games. The 360 and PS3 could run even the latest ones no problem. There's more growth potential.

 

[Poison Sama]

Frustrating, ...very frustrating. They should seriously reconsider doing PS3 ports, or at least make it for sure region free. IMO there will be less people willing to import a whole new system than those that were willing to mod their PS2s for imports.

Plus weren't Ketsui and Dodonpachi BL supposed to come out about now?

I'm guessing that MS told 5pb to say that just to turn everyone's attention away from what's really going on, which is that MS is paying small (and sometimes no-so-small) Japanese game developers/publishers under-the-table to release successful arcade games that have never been ported before (Senko no Ronde, Ketsui, DDPDOJBL, Idolmaster, Otomedius) on the 360 as retail releases.

All the secrecy (and 5pb's "comment") is most likely due to MS not wanting to look like they're desperate in the public eye. Where did such a small and relatively unknown company like 5pb get the money/idea to license DDPDOJBL and Ketsui? Why release them only (supposedly) on XBLA, and not also on PSN/WiiWare? Wouldn't they have made far more money that way? So far, the only "modern" arcade shmups released on XBLA were already available on other consoles, and were also somewhat old (Ikaruga) or not all that popular to begin with (Exelica).

I don't think my theory would hold water if all those games I mentioned were multi-platform. But them being 360-exclusive makes me raise an eyebrow (especially Idolmaster). There's also a good reason why retail games like these are region-locked : because it pretty much forces people like you and me to buy Japanese 360s, which in turn boosts the ailing sales of 360s in Japan (what I think MS really wants). The fact that most US 360 games are region-free makes importing a JP console a very attractive option, plus the fact that MS in the US honors the extended warranty for 360's imported from Japan.

As for when these 2 ports are supposed to be released, 5pb still has them listed as "coming in 2008". Still a few more months left before the end of the year, though at this point a delay wouldn't surprise me. If that means we get quality ports, I don't really mind.

 

[alec]

Ketsui is so expensive because Bill Gates is hoarding all the circuit boards in his underground labrynth of doom.

 

[Poison Sama]

Ketsui is so expensive because Bill Gates is hoarding all the circuit boards in his underground labrynth of doom.

LOL

Let's not get too carried away now...

 

[ironish]

I'm guessing that MS told 5pb to say that just to turn everyone's attention away from what's really going on, which is that MS is paying small (and sometimes no-so-small) Japanese game developers/publishers under-the-table to release successful arcade games that have never been ported before (Senko no Ronde, Ketsui, DDPDOJBL, Idolmaster, Otomedius) on the 360 as retail releases.

....

The same thing ran thorough my mind. I have noticed that niche games are usually made for the least popular platform (RSGun, Ikaruga, Senko, etc.). Maybe MS is thinking the more niche hardcore titles they can get, the more the Japanese players will consider it as a good platform for them. So I can see why MS would do that.

However 5pb should realize that there are a lot of people who already own a US 360 which they probably paid about $400 for, and then to shell out another $400 for a new Arcade unit shipped is a bit pricey, and not many people are going to do it. Sure there are few diehard gamers out there, but they're really marketing to this small group of people who A) don't want to pay the expensive PCB prices, and B) who have enough money around to warrant getting another 360 for few shooters. That's not that many people. I honestly hope they reconsider, or at least get a publisher on board for a US release.

 

[Ajax]

I think they aren't going with the Wii because it's not powerful enough. The PS2 started to run out of steam trying to run the latest Cave games. The 360 and PS3 could run even the latest ones no problem. There's more growth potential.

I seriously doubt this. I've played Shikigami no Shiro III on Wii and the real thing in a cab and it's pretty close. I couldn't really tell a difference at all. Isn't that Type X2 software, too?

Dai Fukkatsu is probably about on the same level as SnS III, so I don't see why they wouldn't be able to port them to Wii.

Plus, if they did get ported to Wii, it's about 100x more probable that they would see the light of day in the states.

 

[Poison Sama]

The same thing ran thorough my mind. I have noticed that niche games are usually made for the least popular platform (RSGun, Ikaruga, Senko, etc.). Maybe MS is thinking the more niche hardcore titles they can get, the more the Japanese players will consider it as a good platform for them. So I can see why MS would do that.

However 5pb should realize that there are a lot of people who already own a US 360 which they probably paid about $400 for, and then to shell out another $400 for a new Arcade unit shipped is a bit pricey, and not many people are going to do it. Sure there are few diehard gamers out there, but they're really marketing to this small group of people who A) don't want to pay the expensive PCB prices, and B) who have enough money around to warrant getting another 360 for few shooters. That's not that many people. I honestly hope they reconsider, or at least get a publisher on board for a US release.

Well, in the cases of RSG and Ikaruga, they were running on Saturn-based and Dreamcast-based arcade hardware originally (respectively). So ports to those 2 particular systems was pretty trivial, I'd imagine. I'm also pretty sure that the Saturn and Dreamcast were more popular in Japan during their respective eras than the 360 is in this one. Also consider that those games came out rather late in the lives of those 2 consoles. Senko no Ronde (et al.), on the other hand, is a whole different story.

I'm sure 5pb and the other Japanese publishers are aware that there's a (small) market for these games outside of Japan. But it wouldn't surprise me if MS is pressuring them to keep their games region-locked to stimulate the import 360 market. As for publishing in the US, the unjust treatment that Senko no Ronde received here probably scared away a few potential publishers for these types of games. UFO is supposedly bringing Raiden IV over here, so maybe they'll take a chance.

I seriously doubt this. I've played Shikigami no Shiro III on Wii and the real thing in a cab and it's pretty close. I couldn't really tell a difference at all. Isn't that Type X2 software, too?

Dai Fukkatsu is probably about on the same level as SnS III, so I don't see why they wouldn't be able to port them to Wii.

I doubt it as well, for pretty much the same reasons as you. Of course, if they're being funded by MS, then that may explain a few things...

 

[ironish]

Well, what I meant is that Treasure went to Sega instead of using Sony arcade hardware. They probably did it because Sega cut them a good deal, and didn't charge them an arm and a leg in licensing fees. I suppose MS is doing the same.

I seriously doubt this. I've played Shikigami no Shiro III on Wii and the real thing in a cab and it's pretty close. I couldn't really tell a difference at all. Isn't that Type X2 software, too?

Dai Fukkatsu is probably about on the same level as SnS III, so I don't see why they wouldn't be able to port them to Wii.

Plus, if they did get ported to Wii, it's about 100x more probable that they would see the light of day in the states.

It would be better if it was on the Wii, and I agree it would probably get a US version if it came out on that instead. I'm no hardware expert, but I know you need a lot of memory if you're doing 2D, which I know the 360 and PS3 has more of. So maybe the Wii could pull off Dai Fukkatsu, but for games beyond that, I could see them running into a ceiling just like they did with the PS2.

 

[Spoonman1]

Well, in the cases of RSG and Ikaruga, they were running on Saturn-based and Dreamcast-based arcade hardware originally (respectively). So ports to those 2 particular systems was pretty trivial, I'd imagine. I'm also pretty sure that the Saturn and Dreamcast were more popular in Japan during their respective eras than the 360 is in this one. Also consider that those games came out rather late in the lives of those 2 consoles. Senko no Ronde (et al.), on the other hand, is a whole different story.

I'm sure 5pb and the other Japanese publishers are aware that there's a (small) market for these games outside of Japan. But it wouldn't surprise me if MS is pressuring them to keep their games region-locked to stimulate the import 360 market. As for publishing in the US, the unjust treatment that Senko no Ronde received here probably scared away a few potential publishers for these types of games. UFO is supposedly bringing Raiden IV over here, so maybe they'll take a chance.



I doubt it as well, for pretty much the same reasons as you. Of course, if they're being funded by MS, then that may explain a few things...

What was that unjust treatment? I may have missed whatever happened with SNR.

 

[Poison Sama]

What was that unjust treatment? I may have missed whatever happened with SNR.

Ubisoft released the game in the US/EU under the name "Wartech" (with a lame cover to match the equally lame name), with very little advertisement and didn't do a good job of describing the game (they didn't localize any of the DLC either). Being a low-profile Japanese arcade game, it was of course slammed in reviews by just about every mainstream videogame site/magazine. Mainstreamers, whom are known for sucking at arcade games, slammed it as well. All this in turn caused the game's price to fall like a rock (goes for $10 new now). Which then led to more mainstreamers buying it because it was so cheap and easy achievement points. Which then led to even more bitching about how much the game "sucked", how it's "too hard", how it's "not even worth $10", and that it "should have been an XBLA game". This is why we can't have nice things.

But to be fair, the game's gameplay is rather unique, so not everyone is going to love it right off the bat. On top of that, a gamepad really isn't the best choice for playing the game. The graphics aren't exactly "cutting-edge" either. Also, most games like these and shmups get more or less the same treatment when they're brought over here (look at Shikigami no Shiro 3, for example).

 

[Spoonman1]

Oh I see...that sucks!! not just shmups but the 360 seems to be taking notes from SAT/DC and PS2 in regards of its selection of quircky or "niche games" (which I love) and is a pain in the ass for people outside of Japan to get a hold on them