Breaker's Revenge!

[Neo Bomber Man]

Now come, I can't be the only person playing this. Since I am limited to PC & keyboard for the moment I decided Dao Long with his charge moves would be ideal. Well I got obssessed with 1-crediting the game, and Sunday night, finally did.

What I discovered along the way is that while it has its shortcomings this game can produce some serious action which was quite surprising honestly. As much as I used to like it for the very brief period the arcade had it in '98 I have never been able to appreciate what a good fighting game it is until now.

The juggle system is a bit limited I think, being that you can really only super juggle your opponent -which will also cancel the dizzy if you catch them after the final hit of the combo that stuns them. No matter, it's far from the end of the world.

Most characters seem capable of some fairly decent combos and even the computer acts as a good instructor on how to inflict some major damage on your opponent.

My biggest complaint about the game is -and perhaps this is simply due to keyboard play- the almost non-ability to punish a missed super move which I can see in vs competition can lead to a lot of block damage kills, and which when facing the computer, is just irritating.

Everyone has their high & low priority moves, their rather too damaging specials and half the supers do crap damage but everyone seems capable of stringing together a decent combo and mounting some offence, so it's all good in the end.

So what am I saying? This is what I think of the game, tell me what you do and where I might be wrong with my line of thinking based on what you've experienced playing it. I seriously wish I had taken replay movies of a few of the matches I had en route to my victory: seeing that much action come out of a fighter most people ignore was really quite eye-opening to say the least.

Let the discussion begin!

Edit: 4418500 if anyone wants some score competition. Level-4 though.

 

[Average Joe]

Breakers and Breakers Revenge are the kind of games that I can only really appreciate after I take a break from playing more "competitively favorable" fighters

you know... games you like, but don't really take all that seriously

games along the like of WW7, ROTD, Double Dragon, Matrimelee, etc...

can't say I care much for the character designs, which are pretty generic overall, but all the characters are really fun to use in their own right -- I also really dig the bright, colorful graphics and really flashy over-the-top supers that the characters have

the gameplay itself feels a bit simplistic, but I think that's why I like it, since it's really easy to just pick-up, play and not really have to worry about all that other advanced stuff you see in more "modern" fighters

oh yeah, Sho rocks -- the best shoto clone (well... he's sort of a shoto clone) ever

after I eat a quick breakfast I'll pop it in for a high score run

 

[Takumaji]

Okay, here we go again...


I have Breakers (the first one) on NGCD and have played it quite a lot (mostly with Sho and Tia), it's an easy-to-learn fighter with a rather limited but solid engine. As you already mentioned, action can be quite intense due to the high speed and a relatively big combo window between two moves, and the CPU opponents sometimes fight quite aggressively, I like that.

However, I don't dig the unbalanced damage ratio between supers, specials and normals. It gives the game a "sloppy" feeling, at least for me... can't really put my finger on it. It's also very string combo-dependend, which isn't bad per se but the limited engine lets many fights look the same, a bit of pokeing, string combos + specials to open up your opp., then a lil' trap + super = end of story.

Graphics are colorful and quite well done but a bit too generic for my taste. Tia is a straight Chun-Li ripoff, she even has Chun's signature yata! winpose... IIRC, Capcom sued Visco for stealing ideas and graphics from the SF series, and you have to admit that the similarity is very obvious.

The differences between the first one and Revenge are minimal, tho. AFAIK, there are no new gameplay/engine features in it, only additional characters and updated graphics, but I could be wrong here.

Oh, and Pielle definitely has the weirdest/gayest voice evar.

 

[beelzebubble]

breakers rev is great. not the deepest game but like tak said solid enough to enjoy mastering and i like the speed combined with the simpler older style system (no rolls, etc).

im not a big fan of the damage system though, not sure at this point how it works but ive seen the big grappler guy do a third of a bar in some cases with one command throw but others something like a sixth... seems as tak mentioned, "a little sloppy".

i love juggling the ninjas qcfx2+KICK after his dp+PUNCH move

 

[COMEDISDEGNO]

The juggle system is a bit limited I think, being that you can really only super juggle your opponent -which will also cancel the dizzy if you catch them after the final hit of the combo that stuns them. No matter, it's far from the end of the world.

Nope, juggling is far from being as limited as it seems.

Rule 1:
-you can juggle anytime with a DM but after another DM.

Exceptions:
-some specials don't allow this (usually interrupted ones)
-DMs into DMs are possible, and i'm not referring to Saizo only...

Rule 2: you can juggle with a normal -> special, just like it was a ground combo

Notes:
-this rule has a wide array of applications, but not ALL specials are granted to enter, the slower ones will simply whiff
-the rule above applies to dizzy too, but the timing to get it to work is stricter, meaning that some moves won't connect (ex: Pielle's st cl A -> qcb+P --- it works on an airborne opponent, but if you stun him with the st cl A the other move won't connect)

Rule 3:
Some moves, in particular situations, allow to juggle not only as the opponent is in the air, but even after they rebounce on the ground - excluding TWO SINGLE CASES in the whole game, this works only if you use specials or DMs

Rule 4:
Some specials, under certain conditions, juggle the opponent allowing to continue with whatever you prefer, normals, commands, specials or, obviously, DMs.
The various cases follow different rules...

Rule 5:
Some normals have to property of:
A) juggling, allowing to continue with any move
B) hitting an opponent after they've been sent in the air with a generally non-juggling move

Examples of case A:
Tia's vertical jump (first hit only)
Alision's jump B\d+B
Bai-Hu's f+D

Examples of case B:
Tia's st far D
Condor's st cl D

This leads to various interesting combos, multiple juggles, multiple air chains etc...
And no need to say, some moves belong to both categories A and B.

My biggest complaint about the game is -and perhaps this is simply due to keyboard play- the almost non-ability to punish a missed super move which I can see in vs competition can lead to a lot of block damage kills, and which when facing the computer, is just irritating.

Eh, practice a bit and you'll see how much punishable most blocked or whiffed DMs are. See Sho, Saizo, Rila...
The only DM in the game that can be considered totally safe (and with a tick damage that'll make you like WTF) is Bai-Hu's ABC, abusable to death.

Edit: 4.418.500 if anyone wants some score competition. Level-4 though.

23.400.000, more or less. But using Bai-Hu it's not hard to reach 24 millions...

 

[COMEDISDEGNO]

By the way:

B=BR. Same engine, same combos, same game, not difference wahetsoever out of Saizo, graphics and sounds (???? - not sure, i usually turn off the audio, both soundtrack and voices suck).

Colors in BR are WONDERFUL.

 

[Takumaji]

[...] The only DM in the game that can be considered totally safe (and with a tick damage that'll make you like WTF) is Bai-Hu's ABC, abusable to death.




23.400.000, more or less. But using Bai-Hu it's not hard to reach 24 millions...

wOwzaz, 23 mill... nice one.

IIRC, you can unlock Bai-Hu by connecting two sticks and simultaneously perform a 360 deg. with each, is that correct?

Good to hear that Revenge isn't different to Breakers... makes me wonder why Visco released it at all.

Will see what I can do score-wise, but I doubt that I will reach your score.

Man, all this fighter-playing-for-score is really cool, I never did that before. Takes different skills than doing 2P fights... I just hope all those patterns don't get "burned in" in my brain too much...

 

[COMEDISDEGNO]

wOwzaz, 23 mill... nice one.

IIRC, you can unlock Bai-Hu by connecting two sticks and simultaneously perform a 360 deg. with each, is that correct?

Good to hear that Revenge isn't different to Breakers... makes me wonder why Visco released it at all.

Will see what I can do score-wise, but I doubt that I will reach your score.

Man, all this fighter-playing-for-score is really cool, I never did that before. Takes different skills than doing 2P fights... I just hope all those patterns don't get "burned in" in my brain too much...

Impressive, uh? Well, you'll be surprised to know it's not such a great achievement once you know the tricks.

Months ago i wrote a faq about the BR score system, translating it would take too long but here's a quick summary to maximize your run:

- don't lose any round -> no miss = 21.999.000
- conclude every round with a DM -> 20.000 x 20 = 400.000
- ALL PERFECT! -> (30.000 + 40.000 + ... + 120.000) x 2 = 1.500.000

Total = 23.899.000

Plus:
use as many DMs as possible (3.000 bonus points each)
dizzy when possible (again, 3.000 bonus points more)


Now consider that Bai-Hu against CPU = GOD (AC all the way, baby) and you'll understand how i got that score despite my lack of actual practice (unless you consider recording combos as a way to become a champion, nothing more wrong...).

My better score without Bai was, er, don't remember exatly, but something like 22.600.000 with Dao Long. Give me a couple of weeks and i could improve it dramatically, tough.

About the B - BR differences, don't trust me too much. I know a lot about BR (at least combo-wise), but the time i spent on the first chapter is rather little.

A way i used to test the differences was to try some peculiar 'key combos', they all worked without faults but i can't be 100% sure that the games are photocopies...
Just as an example, BR is incredibly well debugged, not a single glitch appereared after 2 years of playing, but i can't tell the same about Breakers, it may be broken as hell afaik.


EDIT: the faqs are wrong, the cheat to make Bai-Hu appear is:

press UP on both controllers at the same time in the chars select screen

 

[DanAdamKOF]

I like BR a lot, but I hate how some characters in it seem to not be able to do any worthwhile combos (Rila and Maherl come to mind... maybe that's it?).

I've seen Maherl do some weird attack I can't seem to pull off... I think it was some kind of overhear butt smash or belly smash or something. How do you pull it off?

Also, do the CPU controlled Shelly, Liu-Khai, or Jin have any advantages over the normal characters? I think they might be a bit faster than the standard Tia, Dao-Long and Sho but I'm not totally sure.

BTW, I've seen combo videos where Sho does one of his crazy poke combos (like jump D, stand A, B, B, C, fireball, air kick super)... I can never get the kick super to follow up the fireball unless I throw a fireball from across the screen and then start the kick super. Do I have to kinda cancel the fireball into the super or do I do the super after the full fireball? I could swear there's some kinda super-cancelling in BR, been a while since I played it though.

 

[Neo Bomber Man]

Nope, juggling is far from being as limited as it seems.

Rule 1:
-you can juggle anytime with a DM but after another DM.

I actually realized this via some more playing after I first posted this in another thread by accident then couldn't find the post to edit.

My complaint mainly arises from the inability to juggle with a normal move, or perhaps it's just the particular case I am plagued by: Catching an opponent in the air with Dao Long's jumping D. You can special/super juggle them when they land, but not hit a normal move which would be rather useful given that he is a charge character. Really I am longing for the KoF '97 juggle system, but anyway.

I'm surprised to see the scores getting up to that high though. It is a bit of a diabolical way of getting people to play more, having that much potential difference between numbers and forcing people to play enough not to lose even a round.

Amazing post I must say! Very appreciated too. And I am going to run off and see what more I might get out of Dao Long.

Edit: And yes, I neither think the damage ratio of all the different moves is the best. It's pretty easy to hit two standing hard blows and do as much as a super move, or have the supers do nothing. One thing I can't confirm is that it seems the less life one has, the more damage one's moves do. I notice this especially when I have the opponent dizzy and near death, I decide to try a simple jump-in combo to save my DM for the next round but this normally damaging attack leaves them alive! And so then half the time I blow a perfect victory as a consequence.

 

[COMEDISDEGNO]

I like BR a lot, but I hate how some characters in it seem to not be able to do any worthwhile combos (Rila and Maherl come to mind... maybe that's it?).

BnB combos:

Rila

jump C\D, cl st C, ch b,f+C
jump C\D, cr A\B (x2 if you're close enough), ch db,df,db,u+K (DM), tap K (note that the opponent can tap too to escape the super, just like Alision's qcfx2+P or Condor's multihitting grabs)

Maherl

jump C\D, cr C or cl st C\D, qcb+C\D or qcbx2+P

I've seen Maherl do some weird attack I can't seem to pull off... I think it was some kind of overhear butt smash or belly smash or something. How do you pull it off?

ABC (or any other 3 buttons combination). Unless you mean his AC command. Or his vertical jump C.

Also, do the CPU controlled Shelly, Liu-Khai, or Jin have any advantages over the normal characters? I think they might be a bit faster than the standard Tia, Dao-Long and Sho but I'm not totally sure.

They're the same. I suspect there's a cheat to select them but no faq or site mention something about it...it'd be cool, some of them have the best colors combinations out of the five outfits.

BTW, I've seen combo videos where Sho does one of his crazy poke combos (like jump D, stand A, B, B, C, fireball, air kick super)... I can never get the kick super to follow up the fireball unless I throw a fireball from across the screen and then start the kick super. Do I have to kinda cancel the fireball into the super or do I do the super after the full fireball? I could swear there's some kinda super-cancelling in BR, been a while since I played it though.

Now as now there're only 3 Breakers combo videos on the net. The crappy one from Akumacombos, the good (but too much incomplete) one on Cyberfanatics and Slow Burn, the video i released in 2003 and unfortunately went online after a few days. The combo you're referring is in the Cyberfanatics one, and it goes like this:

(jump attack, brief chain) cl C x 2 (the first two hits of Sho's chain combo), enemy juggled, substitute the third punch with a fireball, now follow with a DM...

Nothing hard, you simply missed the last C

Supercancels? Well, yes and no. There's one case only, and it is Saizo's qcb+P, cancellable after any hit with a DM.
Quite bizarre, an interesting addition to BR, i wonder what Visco could have done with a third installment in the series.

 

[COMEDISDEGNO]

My complaint mainly arises from the inability to juggle with a normal move, or perhaps it's just the particular case I am plagued by: Catching an opponent in the air with Dao Long's jumping D. You can special/super juggle them when they land, but not hit a normal move which would be rather useful given that he is a charge character. Really I am longing for the KoF '97 juggle system, but anyway.

You're lucky, Dao's jump forward (or back) D is one of the juggling normals i was mentioning above. The trick is to make at least one of the five hits whiff (just like Sho's jump Ax5, after 5 hits the enemy gets knocked down to avoid abuse).

So (with enemy jumping, of course):

jump forward D (less than 5 hits), any attack
air attack (but even ground ones, you'll see what i mean), jump forward D)

In detail:

jump D (4 hits), juggle, cl st C, juggle and knockdown, DM
jump D (3 hits), jump D (2), DM
vertical jump C (any attack works, but the v. jump C stuns longer), land, jump D (4), DM
etcetcetc

I'm surprised to see the scores getting up to that high though. It is a bit of a diabolical way of getting people to play more, having that much potential difference between numbers and forcing people to play enough not to lose even a round.

BR follows an incremental score system that prizes who doesn't lose rounds.
Here's the chart for match bonuses:

1 - 100.000
2 - 300.000 (100.000 + 200.000)
3 - 600.000 (300.000 + 200.000 + 100.000)
4 - 1.000.000 (400.000 + 300.000 + 200.000 + 100.000)
5 - 1.500.000 ...
6 - 2.100.000
7 - 2.800.000
8 - 3.600.000
9 - 4.500.000
10 - 5.499.000

If you lose a round the series resets:

1 - 100.000
2 - 300.000
3 - 30.000 (YOU LOSE A ROUND)
4 - 400.000
5 - 900.000 (500.000 + 400.000)
6 - 1.500.000 (600.000 + 500.000 + 400.000)
7 - 70.000 (YOU LOSE A ROUND)
8 - 800.000
9 - 1.700.000 (900.000 + 800.000)
10 - 2.699.000 (999.000 + 900.000 + 800.000)

Dig it? If you lose even a single round you better restart the game...

Edit: And yes, I neither think the damage ratio of all the different moves is the best. It's pretty easy to hit two standing hard blows and do as much as a super move, or have the supers do nothing. One thing I can't confirm is that it seems the less life one has, the more damage one's moves do. I notice this especially when I have the opponent dizzy and near death, I decide to try a simple jump-in combo to save my DM for the next round but this normally damaging attack leaves them alive! And so then half the time I blow a perfect victory as a consequence.

Error, error. That's what i was thinking too, but oh, if i was wrong. The system is something like Samurai Shodown 0, every time you attack your damage decreases while a hidden timer starts to run. The differences are:

this works only if you hit the enemy (whiffed moves don't count, i'm not sure about blocked ones)

the timer takes forever to reset, something like 30 in-game seconds (default settings). The more time passes, the more the damage you'll do, til you'll get back the 100% of your offensive power if you don't attack for long enough.

An example? Start a 2P game and try Condor's command throw as the round starts, immediately after you hit him with any attack (a weak jab, for example) and then 30 seconds after. The difference is crazy...

There's a lot more to be said about the damage system...

 

[DanAdamKOF]

Now as now there're only 3 Breakers combo videos on the net. The crappy one from Akumacombos, the good (but too much incomplete) one on Cyberfanatics and Slow Burn, the video i released in 2003 and unfortunately went online after a few days. The combo you're referring is in the Cyberfanatics one, and it goes like this:

(jump attack, brief chain) cl C x 2 (the first two hits of Sho's chain combo), enemy juggled, substitute the third punch with a fireball, now follow with a DM...

Nothing hard, you simply missed the last C

Supercancels? Well, yes and no. There's one case only, and it is Saizo's qcb+P, cancellable after any hit with a DM.
Quite bizarre, an interesting addition to BR, i wonder what Visco could have done with a third installment in the series.

Thanks! (Jump) dn+D, (ground) B, C, C, qcf+A, qcbx2+K works awesome. I think it works because the enemy is in the air a little with the second C. (edit: well you said it above lol)

And thanks for telling me about Maherl's attack too.

 

[COMEDISDEGNO]

Thanks! (Jump) dn+D, (ground) B, C, C, qcf+A, qcbx2+K works awesome. I think it works because the enemy is in the air a little with the second C. (edit: well you said it above lol)

And thanks for telling me about Maherl's attack too.

No problem, in case of new doubts just ask
Another way to setup the FB -> DM is by using the crouching C, btw. Better range, decent priority, a good AA useful to surprise the enemy.


I was wrong, after all. There are at least other two moves that can be supercancelled.
Don't trust the first impression, this game is deep.

 

[Neo Bomber Man]

You're lucky, Dao's jump forward (or back) D is one of the juggling normals i was mentioning above. The trick is to make at least one of the five hits whiff (just like Sho's jump Ax5, after 5 hits the enemy gets knocked down to avoid abuse).
etc.
etc.
etc.

I am actually still testing out some of what you said as well as searching for another good gamepad. Thanks though for another superb post. It's funny how you disprove almost everything I think I know about the game and I actually like it. Needless to say I am enjoying it evermore with all that is proving to be possible.

 

[Takumaji]

I've tried tried to find out about differences between Breakers and BR last night - most of them center around graphics and a few minor gameplay tweaks. Standard/signature combos are all there as far as I can see, but the scoring system seems to be different in Breakers.

Visco also enhanced the juggling rules in BR, I've tried some stuff posted here in the first one but it didn't work, maybe I should give it another go to rule out timing errors on my part. Overall, I have to admit that the engine has a certain depth while still being accessible and comparably easy to use at the same time.

Condor and Maherl are damn strong, btw. I love Condor's DMs, very usefull stuff. Maherl has some nice 3-in-1's like AC -> f+C -> qcb+P, bit slow but cool. I always think of Karnov when I see him... uhm... Karnov's Revenge... another game that could need a bit of attention.... but I digress....

So, Sho is my man at the moment, his strings + versatile specials are a great toolbox for all sorts of crazy stuff... well, nice game, if only the characters would have a bit more "personality", most of them are quite generic.

 

[COMEDISDEGNO]

I am actually still testing out some of what you said as well as searching for another good gamepad. Thanks though for another superb post. It's funny how you disprove almost everything I think I know about the game and I actually like it. Needless to say I am enjoying it evermore with all that is proving to be possible.

Lol, you're making me look like a sadic
Knowledge comes from doubt etc, you know the say.

This discussion made me go back on things i thought certain. Gonna test the differences between B and BR, i'm damn curious now.

 

[Neo Bomber Man]

Lol, you're making me look like a sadic
Knowledge comes from doubt etc, you know the say.

This discussion made me go back on things i thought certain. Gonna test the differences between B and BR, i'm damn curious now.

It's all for the greater good though, don't feel bad.

For example:

I totally blew it on Bai-Hu.

 

[Neo Bomber Man]

Can anyone tell me, am I too slow with the keys or is it simply impossible to corner juggle with Dao Long from a super fireball into either other super?

 

[COMEDISDEGNO]

The latter you said.
Afaik, excluding Saizo's Musou-Shinra, all the juggling\combo starting dms have to be interrupted...