Biblical question (let's try not to start a flame war)

[evil wasabi]

Well, God gives us free will to choose whatever you want to do. But you can't deny that there is no God.

Believe or not believe, you are still God's child as He created and love us all.

This is only true if you are viewing this as a religious context. As an argument, your argument holds no water. Saying that something is just because it says it is is a logical fallacy.

 

[jaydubnb]

Does the book of Genesis actually say that Adam, Eve, Cain, and Abel are the only people? Perhaps the god of the story had other families created over different sections of the land. After all, the Garden of Eden isnt the entire globe.....

 

[MegaDrive20XX]

The Holy Bible is not meant to be argued over or meant to prove anything. It is GOD's word, and you either believe it or you don't. *Those who believe and try their best within their walk in HIS (GOD's) RIGHTEOUSNESS... not their own, will Live forever, those who do not will die twice. First of the flesh, going back to dust, and then cast into eternal damnation with all the others who had every opportunity to accept GOD's gift of salvation through Jesus Christ.

To answer you question GIGA POWER, as taken from the KJV Hebrew-Greek KEY WORD "Study Bible" explination notations:

Genesis 4:3-7:

---God is a respecter of persons or he is completely imparital. The first series of text implies that a righteous and benevolent "respect" based on proper discrimination as to the character of GOD exersices towards man. The second series of biblical refrences denotes a "respect" which is partial, arising out of selfish and unworthy considerations which GOD does not exercise because he is impartial. That GOD accepted Abel's sacrifice and rejected Cain's was not based on the fact tha Cain's sacrifice was bloodless. Many of the required OT offerings were bloodless (as meal and meat offerings). The basic difference was in the hearts of two men. Abel offered in faith (Heb 11:4) while Cain did not. This offering but onto Cain and his offspring he had not respect. Only when they are offered in faith do the sacrifices and service of men please GOD. (IS 1:11-17, Eph 6:5-7)

Genesis 4:13, 14

---Cain's cry was one of remorse but not true repenteance. He was overwhelmed by the severity of is sentence, but he was not sorry for his crime. There was no plea for pardon or expression of sorrow or regret. He was as selfish person who was about to be deprived of all material belongings and driven into the wilderness. Cain was afraid that some of the relatives of Abel would find him and kill him in revenge. Thus it is logical to assume that the population of the world had already multiplied considerably since the expulsion of Adam & Eve from the Garden of Eden.

Genesis 4:17

--- The Origin of Cain's wife had perplexed many ppl, Genesis does not answer the question directly, but Genesis 5:4 asserts that Adam had other sons and daughters besides the three sons whose names appear in the text. Given the longevity of people at that time, Cain could have married onf of his own sisters or even a more distant relative.

END QUOTAION OF KJV HEBREW-GREEK STUDY BIBLE

*Now remember GOD is the creator of all things, EVERYTHING. Thus stuff like inbreeding and being mentally retarded wasn't happening at that time. *By the time GOD had flooded the world it was because the fallen angels (of Satan's camp) had coupled up with the women of the Earth at the time, and nothing good came from ppl's thoughts, and deeds. Only NOAH was a man after GOD's heart, thus he was spared. As he built the Arch everyone thought he was an idiot, until 600 years later the rain began (it had never rained up until then) and then suddenly everyone wanted on the boat. Ooops... to late!

Some other stuff to think about and ponder over from scripture.



"In the begining was the Word ... and the word was with GOD and the word was GOD. The same was in the begining with GOD. All things were made by him, and without him was not anything made that was made. In him was LIFE, and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in the darkness... and the darkness comprehened it not.

---Book of John 1-1:5 KJV

Therefore being justified by FAITH, we have PEACE with GOD through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in HOPE of the glory of GOD. And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience... and patience, EXPERIENCE and experience, HOPE. And HOPE maketh not ashamed; because the LOVE of GOD is shed aborad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given onto us. (Believers in Christ) For when we were yet without strength in due time Christ died for the UnGODLY. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet Preadventure for a good man, some would even dare to die. But GOD commendeth his love towards us, in that, while were yet sinners, CHRIST died for us. Much more then, being now JUSTIFIED by His Blood we shall be saved from wrath through him.

---Romans 5-5:9 KJV

MD20XX / Storm Rider

 

[Diavle18]

We cannot deny the existance of God, we can only alter the meaning of the word.

Personally I believe in 'God' as just a creator, not a supreme being or any of that other mumbo jumbo. By God I don't mean an actual entity, if a chemical reaction is what it took to creat what is around us then that becomes our creator and so God. This concept is wide open.

Imo religion is made for us by us, nothing more. No offense to anyone but I always feel like laughing when people say 'the word of God'.

 

[RevQuixo]

Inbreeding.

Genesis 1:28 says that "Be fruitful and increase in number". God allows this to be happen.

Later in the Old Testaments God prohibits Inbreeding.

Oh I see...it all makes sense. God changed the rules of genetics to allow blood relatives to propogate amongst themselves over and over again without the nasty consequences of genetic deformity.

Then he killed the dinosaurs and unicorns.

Nice how he flip-flopped on that Incest thing too.

 

[neobuyer]

I don't really want to argue about this stuff- but I do have an interesting question for the religious people here:

What if you die and find out that one of the world's OTHER religions was the true one?

Like if you're a Christian and you die and all of the sudden Mohammed is there kicking your ass and then Osama Bin Laden is there, and he pulls a string- and down you drop into a flaming pit?

Or if Shakyamuni Buddha is there and he just laughs at your ass and sends you off to be reincarnated as one of those lower-caste Indians that has to sweep shit for a living? Or as a duck or squirrel or some shit?

Wouldn't that just suck?

Now you have an idea of how absurd religious belief is

 

[Bluevoodu]

I've been on this site for a long time and I know how off topic and crazy threads on religion can be, but theres something that I've been wondering about.
First off I'm agnostic. I do not deny or believe in god. I simply don't think that theres enough evidence to prove or disprove that he/she/it is indeed out there.
Saying that, I'm VERY interested in different religions. And this is the main reason I'm posting this here. I was reading the Bible the other night, genesis to be exact.
I come to the part about the first murder between Cain and Able and something just doesn't add up.
Ok. You have Adam and Eve. God's first creations. Then from them you get Cain and Able. Cain kills Able, leaving three people. Adam, Cain, and Eve.
However when it mentioned how Cain was banished it states that he finds other people, includiing a wife, and creates a city called Enoch.
Where in the hell did these other people come from?

Please don't start a flame war. I was just asking because this issue is completely ignored.

a point from a Christian.

Here is the deal.... the bible is a collection of historical accounts. Read the "Case for Christ"..... there was an athiest lawyer that went through trying to disprove Christianity .... but he ended up believing. He found that most of the bible stories could be linked back with REAL historical occurances.... and many others have as well.

Those who say it is fictional.... just choose not to believe, but the bible is actual facts that happened.

NOW... we get back to the question..... Why... because there are some people that are not talked about in the Bible. Yes..... everything started with Adam and Eve. YEs... Cain and able were sons of Adam and Eve. They had other children as well. Things were different before the "fall of mankind" we do not know how many children..etc.. happened though. I mean.. it would be worthless to state how many kids each person had..etc..etc.

Also, cities back then are not like the cities we know today. They were not large like that.

Until the Great Flood (please read passed that).... people were living Hundreds of years .... meaning 500+ ... and there are good scientific explanations for that ... and the flood..... but I will not go into those here.

anyway... if you have more questions, feel free to write me: sales@egameaddiction.com
I don't have all the answers, but I have some of them....and I can try to lead you to the right answers I do not know.

Anyway else have questions? feel free to ask as well

What if you die and find out that one of the world's OTHER religions was the true one?

well... either I will be getting a 2nd life, (unlike Christianity) I could have earned my way to Heaven... like many other religions believed... because I have done good works (I would not say this as a Christian btw... because we believe we do not get to heaven by good works... only by faith alone), or like many of the world religions.. I would have reached Nirvana..etc... with my peace in my god..... because there are an infinite # of Dieties.

There is only 1 religion that states...... "For God so loved the world that he gave his only son that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life." And there is only 1 religion requires you to believe that Jesus is God..... Christianity.
We believe in the 3in1 .... But there is only 1 God.... just 3 parts Father, Son, and Holy Spirit..... yet they are the same.

Well.... All the other religions have you earning your way to their "peace, nirvana, heaven..whatever they have...." But there is no REAL way to get there...... and do you think you can earn anything from a god? seriously?

†B†V†

 

[evil wasabi]

No offense to anyone but I always feel like laughing when people say 'the word of God'.

First a word from Thomas Paine on this subject

The continually progressive change to which the meaning of words is subject, the want of a universal language, which renders translation necessary, the errors to which translations are again subject, the mistakes of copyists and printers, together with the possibility of wilful alteration, are of themselves evidences that human language, whether in speech or in print, cannot be the vehicle of the word of God. The word of God exists in something else.

Next I'd have to agree with Diavle18 here. I'm a Deist in all sense of my beliefs. That a God, neither mal or benevolent created this world and stepped away.

Also at bluevoodu, I'm pretty sure the majority of people here would believe that there is truth in the Bible, and that a man, Jesus of Nazareth did live, but its the fact that the Old Testament was not written down for generations, that allows for some 'editing' whether purposefully or by accident. Therefore the Bible can not be 100% truth.

 

[Brittney]

It's usually assumed that Adam & Eve had many children and in the first books of the Old Testament, life spans are recorded into the hundreds of years. So with a little math, Eve could have had a few hundred children. That doesn't count the children's children which would be exponentially larger. Then you have to take the Nephilim into account, which tends to get a bit confusing. Basically Genesis is not very specific on some things and doesn't focus on all of Eve's children, etc.

 

[Bluevoodu]

Imo religion is made for us by us, nothing more. No offense to anyone but I always feel like laughing when people say 'the word of God'.

what about the 10 commandments that were written by God?
On Tablets....... given to Moses?

religion cannot be made entirely by us. I think that a lot of "religious stuff" today is made by us.... but going back to the word of God.... there are many items that came straight from the horses mouth... so to speak lol

†B†V†

 

[jeff bogard]

Sure God created Adam, but I don't think the bible states that he was the first man/human ever created.

 

[Bluevoodu]

.

Nice how he flip-flopped on that Incest thing too.

Have a better solution when starting with only 2 people?

Things would have been screwed up starting with many people.
..... there is plan in the works... and that would have screwed it up.


†B†V†

 

[MegaDrive20XX]

I don't really want to argue about this stuff- but I do have an interesting question for the religious people here:

What if you die and find out that one of the world's OTHER religions was the true one?

Like if you're a Christian and you die and all of the sudden Mohammed is there kicking your ass and then Osama Bin Laden is there, and he pulls a string- and down you drop into a flaming pit?

Or if Shakyamuni Buddha is there and he just laughs at your ass and sends you off to be reincarnated as one of those lower-caste Indians that has to sweep shit for a living? Or as a duck or squirrel or some shit?

Wouldn't that just suck?

Now you have an idea of how absurd religious belief is

You keep believeing in yourself and I'll trust in GOD and ultimately JESUS CHRIST. *As for your attempts to argue the point, I'll say this. I was a Buddhist from age 17-21 of the Nichiren Shoshu Sokkai Gakkai International based on the teachings of Nichren Daishonen, who's taught the "ULTIMATE SUTRA" that was Lotus Sutra that was passed down from Sidhartha, but whom felt at the time the ppl could not harness all of the Enlightenment of that sutra, and thus many more were made, in which the roads would lead to it. In that practice you chanted the MYSTIC LAW of Nam-Myo-Ho-Renge-Kyo and did Daimoku (the actual prayers) while sitting before the Gohonzen with a scroll with all of the life conditons (the 10 worlds) written on it. You in a sense did not worship yourself, but rather chanted for the "inner you" to be enlightened and peace to the world over. After being hit the first time by the finger of GOD, I realized this was just total bullshit. It's a practice that will send it's practishoners to HELL someday, wether they choose to believe that or not. *But for the sake of your arguement... if it's Buddha, that's right (Which I know he's not) then I'll just enter a state of MU, then be reincarinated at a later point on the cosmic scale.

As for Mohammed... I'm not worried about him. And as I stated to a guy once who tried to convert me to ISLAM. "If I only get 70 virgins in paradise, then forget it... I'd go through 70 in less than a month and want more."

I know the Christian GOD to be the True GOD, due to many things that have happened to me personally, and Thank Jesus Christ that I finally am back on the road to trying to be a better person aboding in him, rather than how I'd been enticed and acting out for quite some time after being saved in 2002. The Bottom Line is believe what you will outside of GOD, and pay the price... or Lay it down, stop doubting, give GOD and the scriptues a chance, actually put into practice (as best you can) the teachings and you'll see it's true. Beyond this I will not argue on GOD's behalf because he doesn't need me to. I only posted this in reponse to your blatant attempt at being funny.

*Or would it kill you to go see the 3 hour Word-for-Word recreation of THE GOSPEL OF JOHN about Jesus Christ and what happened then brought to life before you? But I'm sure you'd rather go hear TUPAC talk about himself from snippets of himself before going six feet under right? Got time for LOTR but prolly not to even humor yourself about Jesus Christ.

Anyhow I pray for you Neo Buyer... GOD knows your name, thus I can just pray for "Neo Buyer" and he'll know who I mean.

MD20XX

 

[SSS]

I believe religion was cooked up by humans first to explain natural phenomenons. This evolved into polytheism, then monotheism. Face it, humans don't want to feel alone. The idea that we are alone on this rock floating through an endless void doesn't sit well. The concept of an afterlife, be it the Egyptians belief, or the Christian belief in a heaven. People want a sense of immortality, the idea that your existence ends when you die is somehow unfathomable.

Bible-work of man-fiction

This time you spend on earth is all you get, make the best of it. Because when you go, your "soul" isn't going to a magical place. You'll decompose into nothingness like every other living organism.

 

[the binary c0de]

I'm a Deist in all sense of my beliefs. That a God, neither mal or benevolent created this world and stepped away.

Im not quite sure what you mean by "stepped away", but I have to say that if its the way I am percieving it, then it was man that walked away, not God.

People tend to believe that our minds can comprehend beyond the spirit, when our brains are very much limited. People also tend to not take into acount that faith is a tool of the supernatural spiritual side of God's union with man.

Its like expecting a neo geo to work because all the chips and processors are there, yet there is no electricity. Faith is a huge part of developing relationship with Christ and without it you will never allow God to tie the broken word together, just like without electricity you will never know if your neo geo is real, as in true. Even to test each chip you would have to have electricity. Sorry for the analogy, but I think it might help.

FAITH

 

[neobuyer]

Anyhow I pray for you Neo Buyer... GOD knows your name, thus I can just pray for "Neo Buyer" and he'll know who I mean.

MD20XX

Don't waste your time man, if prayer were going to have any affect of my beliefs, then my mom and dad would've converted me in 1987- and they've been praying ever since. The last time I steped into a Christian church, my eyes started to sting and I started belching brimstone.

But if you DO end up meeting Mohammed some day- don't say I didn't warn you.

Or worse yet, what if you died and found out the Hari Krishnas were the one true way? Wouldn't that be a kick in the pants?

Of, get this, what if the Greeks and Romans were really right and all the pantheon was so pissed at humanity for ceasing their worship that they just tortured all of us the way Zues did Promethius?

Or what- holy fuck- the Native Americans or Austrailian Aboriginals are right?

Or the Tongans or Maori?

Or the Hindus? Say hello to my little friend Ganesha!

 

[evil wasabi]

Im not quite sure what you mean by "stepped away", but I have to say that if its the way I am percieving it, then it was man that walked away, not God.

People tend to believe that our minds can comprehend beyond the spirit, when our brains are very much limited. People also tend to not take into acount that faith is a tool of the supernatural spiritual side of God's union with man.

Its like expecting a neo geo to work because all the chips and processors are there, yet there is no electricity. Faith is a huge part of developing relationship with Christ and without it you will never allow God to tie the broken word together, just like without electricity you will never know if your neo geo is real, as in true. Even to test each chip you would have to have electricity. Sorry for the analogy, but I think it might help.

FAITH

I didn't mean that in any way that God 'gave up' on man. It has nothing to do with either man or god putting something into any relationship. I mean that I do not believe that there is any relationship between myself and the creator of this world.

 

[the binary c0de]

I didn't mean that in any way that God 'gave up' on man. It has nothing to do with either man or god putting something into any relationship. I mean that I do not believe that there is any relationship between myself and the creator of this world.

cool, thats what I wanted to know. I do feel that that relationship is available to you though, but thanks for clarifying.

 

[PleaseKillMeNow]

But if you DO end up meeting Mohammed some day- don't say I didn't warn you.

Or worse yet, what if you died and found out the Hari Krishnas were the one true way? Wouldn't that be a kick in the pants?

Of, get this, what if the Greeks and Romans were really right and all the pantheon was so pissed at humanity for ceasing their worship that they just tortured all of us the way Zues did Promethius?

Or what- holy fuck- the Native Americans or Austrailian Aboriginals are right?

Or the Tongans or Maori?

Or the Hindus? Say hello to my little friend Ganesha!

Reminds me of the episode of South Park where Saddam was sent to heaven. The Mormons were the only ones...

"Later, we're gonna do a skit about how alcoholism hurts families."

EDIT: I've gotten more info on Lilith, from one of my favorite sites, Encyclopedia Mythica

Oh, and binary, I don't know if you have, but you may want to host those pics yourself, I'm using www.you-are-a-huge-nerd.com to do so.

 

[Baseley09]

It is a modern given that science has discredited the Bible.

Also when it was innitially translated, much was lost through lack of language undrtsanding, further more watered down through the years.

Strange that even still the USA fear what is written in the subtext and try to prevent what it fortells......even the modern world is supersticious....i blame Stevie Wonder.

 

[SML]

It is a modern given that science has discredited the Bible.

Also when it was innitially translated, much was lost through lack of language undrtsanding, further more watered down through the years.

Strange that even still the USA fear what is written in the subtext and try to prevent what it fortells......even the modern world is supersticious....i blame Stevie Wonder.

Not that strange at all. The Western "logical" worldview is not satisfying people's needs like it seemed to promise to in the 19th century and is dying out. Existentialism and "exotic" belief systems are taking its place.

*fart*

edit: For some awfully smart-sounding thoughts on the subject by people who fart less than me, consult some of the writings of E. Mansell Pattison and Claude Levi-Strauss, among others.

 

[Diavle18]

Next I'd have to agree with Diavle18 here. I'm a Deist in all sense of my beliefs. That a God, neither mal or benevolent created this world and stepped away.

So thats what we're called, yeah I believe the exact same thing. The creator made us, gave us the tools and walked away.

*Or would it kill you to go see the 3 hour Word-for-Word recreation of THE GOSPEL OF JOHN about Jesus Christ and what happened then brought to life before you? But I'm sure you'd rather go hear TUPAC talk about himself from snippets of himself before going six feet under right? Got time for LOTR but prolly not to even humor yourself about Jesus Christ.

MD20XX

Since the first time you mentioned that movie I've been wanting to watch it, and then you mock me by putting it in you sig . I'll definetly try getting a hold of it.

P.S. LOTR blows.

what about the 10 commandments that were written by God?
On Tablets....... given to Moses?

religion cannot be made entirely by us. I think that a lot of "religious stuff" today is made by us.... but going back to the word of God.... there are many items that came straight from the horses mouth... so to speak lol

†B†V†

Nice one .

You see thats what has been said, one cannot say for a fact these commandments came from a supreme being. For all we know Moses or the Jewish scholars, looking at the time to give jewish people hope, made these up. They aren't so hard to consider true b/c they are considerably basic, make sense in one way or another and are appealing to a human mind (especially someone in 'need' of 'help').

The same thing can be said about the Quran which was pretty much given to 'us' by Mohammad who 'brought' it from the mountains. Well , he was kinda alone the whole time while he was there, know what I mean?

Religion is simply a form of control. No one can say with definite certainty that these are indeed the words of God.

 

[the binary c0de]

You see thats what has been said, one cannot say for a fact these commandments came from a supreme being. For all we know Moses or the Jewish scholars, looking at the time to give jewish people hope, made these up. They aren't so hard to consider true b/c they are considerably basic, make sense in one way or another and are appealing to a human mind (especially someone in 'need' of 'help').

I have said it three times in this thread, but its that important: FAITH. You must have faith before this will all come together. If you believe in the God of Abraham, then you believe that he is God, and that man could not alter his word. Its pretty much an all or nothing.

Now if you REALLY want to know God with all your heart, pray, and God will supply you with that faith. Faith is the step BEFORE conformation, not after.

 

[Diavle18]

I have said it three times in this thread, but its that important: FAITH. You must have faith before this will all come together. If you believe in the God of Abraham, then you believe that he is God, and that man could not alter his word. Its pretty much an all or nothing.

Now if you REALLY want to know God with all your heart, pray, and God will supply you with that faith. Faith is the step BEFORE conformation, not after.

Faith, yet another man made concept which gives an imo fake feeling or sense of acompishment and content. You are clearly looking at this from a strict religious perpective, try to imagine or define the concept 'Faith' in terms of reason and logic. What I see in your post are definitely religious teachings, not something one concludes him or herself.

 

[Lost Basura]

i've been out for a long while. some of you know where i stand on this stuff, if you rember me, some of you do not, who do not even know who i am. i side with megatron and liquid snake all the way.

about the text being lost in translation, that is nonsensical. hebrew is still around. some would argue paleohebrew vs. the current system but they are similar enough that nothing is lost. besides we even know the derivitives from which hebrew came from. also anyone who knows the text would see that there are no misinterpritations b/c the Bible is flawless. it is not inconsistent because if it were it would not make sense, now you ready made critics lay off. if you actually knew the Bible, i might allow you to agrue a point. you do not know it, i didn't say you didnt read it, because if you did know it you would think like the ones i have mentioned above.

it would be foolish of me to spout off how math is rediculous and full of nonsense simply because i do not know it or care to. and yet you poeple do the same for the Bible.

in the words of old Bob Dylan " don't criticize what you can't understand"

i have a lot more to say for this, (as usual) but have work.

hello to megatron, i've been out for a while b/c of more important things. its nice to see your activity here.