2k2 tier woes

[firebomber]

I'm fairly new to competitive 2k2 and already i'm sick of the ABC teams.

What are some good counter strats/characters to beat Athena, Billy and Choi? I just can't find a reliable way to get in on these three. Any help is greatly appreciated.

I'm using Yash, Iori, K9999, Kula and Yuri mostly.

 

[Takumaji]

Athena - Most ppl's main tactics include zoning/fireball spamming and hit-and-run. Just use Kensou and give her a bit of her own medicine, qcb+P fireballs, followed by hcf+A or rdp+K if she jumps/zooms in. Mix it up with qcb+P while in air. His quick cD comes in handy after missed/whiffed Phoenix Arrow, and don't forget to abuse Kensou's qcf+K which has autoguard. Juggle with hcf+C afterwards, jump back to your side of the screen and continue spamming fireballs...etc. Kensou also has some nice BC cancel combos that are quite useful.

Billy - The stick, the damn stick... strategy is obvious, try to close in (harder than it sounds). Use Yuri's speed and keep your game mixed in order not to hit one of Billy's reversals, then back out as fast as you can and use projectiles. The running grab (slapping) is also good for hit-and-run. Remember, if Billy's stick is still flying towards you but has not connected or hit your block yet, you can still punish him, say with one of Yuri's dp+P's. Use the C version for more range and don't forget to do another one straight afterwards for an extra hit.

Choi - Very unpredictable, annoying speed and priority. My main man against him is Ralf, specially Ralf's standing/crouching C works wonders. Try a safe play with his Ralf Tackle (hcb+D), then mix up low attacks with the charge d,u+P punch. Don't Vulcan-Punch too much and better don't try to connect a Backbreaker. Keep your dashes/position changes short, don't try to counter Choi's speed with yours, it won't work because the little prick is the fastest in the game. Sometimes I try to lure my opp. into a whiffed tornado move/DM and then quickly punish him on landing with anything I got. Ah yes, and do not crouch-block too much, be agile but don't run around.

Perhaps this helps.

 

[LWK]

You know:

I really respected 2002, but lately I am seriously in doubt to it.
Some chars are just TO fucking powerful.

Ramon, Athena, K9999, O Yash.

Its weird, cause you dont expect ramon to be a issue.

Think again, this ramon is super fucking confusing, and he has retarded reach off his CMD.

What I hate most is the O yash traps. IE: his qcf a/c grab in a corner.

Its like this:
If you corner someone with o yash, and they are getting up, that grab eats every damn thing you could throw out, and if you back up or jump, he gets a guaranteed hit, roll and your fucked to.
There is like not a damn thing I've found around that. Its gotten to the level that O Yash is so damn powerful alone he could take any char if used right, athena included. Guaranteed hsdm, tons of perfect traps.


Athena is a pain in the ass, especially online with lag, Her projectile modifying and switching is just a nightmare to deal with and her teleporting is a pain to.
Not to mention her phoenix arrow recovery, and being able to do back to back phoenix arrow dms. *Yes this is possible, check a cyber fan 2002 vid*

I hate athena in this.

Ramon

One thing I hate dealing with is his unguardable crap.
Ramon's leaping is a nightmare, his hsdm is excellent, his dD to dp B/D confusion is horrid, and if he lands it, expect a pursuit into his dm.

K9999
Cornering god, simple as that. His jC is evil cause its the most pressuring jump in move in the history of KOF, but also because it leads to guard crush alot.
If you try rolling from a corner, you get his sC. If you try jumping, you get his rdp B/ dp a, his sA's have terrible priority as well as a sdm that is so damn chip friendly, it doesnt matter if it hits. This guy is a serious asshole in 2002.

Vanessa

A huge nightmare. Linkable HSDM, canceling cD's, pursuit jCD.

She can be a nightmare if you get cornered cause of her canceling. Her BC combos are the best in the game and she has some of the easiest dm links.

 

[SwordPlay]

Ramon, Athena, K9999, O Yash.

Hmm... don't know about K9999 - he's lost a step or two since '01 and doesn't present the same cheese effect that he once could.

Agreed with the others, but I'd really add Billy to that list.

Not only can he play a nasty game of keep away, he can also punish the jumpers, dashers, rollers, and even handle himself really well in close-quarter situations.

He's without a doubt my most hated person to play against when he's in the right hands (and even when he's not.)

 

[SouthtownKid]

You know:

I really respected 2002, but lately I am seriously in doubt to it.
Some chars are just TO fucking powerful.

Ramon, Athena, K9999, O Yash.

Its weird, cause you dont expect ramon to be a issue.

Think again, this ramon is super fucking confusing, and he has retarded reach off his CMD.

Ramon

One thing I hate dealing with is his unguardable crap.
Ramon's leaping is a nightmare, his hsdm is excellent, his dD to dp B/D confusion is horrid, and if he lands it, expect a pursuit into his dm.

...or SDM. I'm not that great, but I find that his unguardable stuff is not too hard to counter usually, once you play enough against the Ramon user and get used to his thinking. Ramon is one of my 2 favorite original characters to come out of the entire KOF series.

Vanessa

A huge nightmare. Linkable HSDM, canceling cD's, pursuit jCD.

She can be a nightmare if you get cornered cause of her canceling. Her BC combos are the best in the game and she has some of the easiest dm links.

She's my other favorite.

 

[LWK]

Hmm... don't know about K9999 - he's lost a step or two since '01 and doesn't present the same cheese effect that he once could.

Agreed with the others, but I'd really add Billy to that list.

Not only can he play a nasty game of keep away, he can also punish the jumpers, dashers, rollers, and even handle himself really well in close-quarter situations.

He's without a doubt my most hated person to play against when he's in the right hands (and even when he's not.)

From exp, the best way to deal with billy is to use lots of dp's from a far.
A example would be Ryo. Billy does his dA to get countered immediately.
Its like reversing his game. Billy users are spur of the moment, they like to be far away, so if you use that game against them, many come right to ownage, and Ryo is excellent as a close in.

 

[Korigama]

You were waiting for me to chime in, I'm sure.

Let's see...Kula...

-her jumping B has really good priority, make good use of it

-Counter Shell can reflect any projectile, even SDM types and Rugal's Kaiser Wave. In addition to that, it can be comboed into as well (try close s. C --> cancel after the first hit --> QCB+A/C, or s. A --> QCB+A/C). [causes counter wire on counter]

-Critical Ice (df+C) is a very effective long range poke, and can be comboed into her close s. C or her close s. D. Be careful when using it around physical counters like Seth's, though. [causes counter wire on counter]

-her slide (df+b) comes in handy for tripping enemies that are a bit too far to trip with her crouching D

-her crouching B is very useful for poking, be sure to keep that in mind (sample combos: c. B --> c. B --> c. B --> df+B; c. B --> c. A --> df+B or f, d, df+A/C)

-her standing B and close standing B are also handy for poking

-the stand follow-up (f+B) for the B version of Lay Spin (QCB+B/D) is useful for zoning, and even tends to eat other projectiles

-the C version of Diamond Breath (QCF+A/C) is very useful for set-ups (sample combos: QCF+C --> run in --> close s. C --> f+A --> QCB+B --> f+D --> f, d, df+A; [corner] QCF+C --> run in --> close s. C --> QCF+A --> QCB+B --> f+B --> f, d, df+A/C or QCB+A/C)

-be sure to mix up the stand and sit follow-ups to Lay Spin every once in a while

-the second hit of the D version of Lay Spin is no longer a knockdown (just the first), and allows for enough time to combo into the stand follow-up if it connects by itself


There's more than this, of course, but that will have to wait for our next match...

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Ramon is a huge ass pimp. He's one of the best characters you could play as. Not only is he cool, but he's very powerful. I can walk through whole teams with him. Total... badass.

Spike

EDIT: Tips setion from what I can give

Use tiger loads. They're great, and overpowered. Thanks to the fact that it's unblockable and hits air targets, too.

Like most chars, use low jumping CDs. Hits a ton and hits hard.

If you can hit a character with his little DP k move, you're sitting pretty. You can do (and I'm talking combos that any idiot can do), a standing C, d/f B, dpB, dpB, and then do a super cancel. You need two bars for the cancel and super. Do his big super, and you'll need three. The timing, at first, sucks. But, once you get it, you're a fucking super pimp.

And my most favorite thing about him is his snatch 'em TNC. Standing D, down/forward B, SNATCH! It's stronger than What Clark can do, and it's easy to do.

There's tons more things you can do. Do his little dancing jump kick. One version comes out and the other is a feint move. Use them both. What a pimp this guy is!

Spike

 

[firebomber]

Great tips everyone.
Takumaji's anti Choi tips are helping a lot, as are LWK's anti Billy tips. I had no idea that Billy was that susceptible to counters. Never occured to me to punch the stick.

Are there any good strats to counter Athena without fireball whoring her back? That seems to work well, but I'm all about being more diverse.

Ramon is really a powerful force. I'm lucky that I don't play many Ramon users. I really need to take him up. I figure he won't be so confusing once I learn his tactics well.


Kor, I'm gonna take your Kula for a ride soon I'm much better now than before in both 2k2 and 2k3 (GGXX as well). If you thought my Duo was mean before, get prepared.
I picked up SF anniversary today too so we can throw down in some 3rd Strike too. Shoot me a pm when you wanna stop by.

 

[Thereverend]

I say mary is always a good choice and Vanessa if you can combo with them and get in real close you're unstoppable

 

['Lord Yamazaki']

Athena is the only I really hate fighting against in 2k2.
She's a bitch, plain and simple.
The fastest recovery I ever did see.

However, I really don't have tactics against any character. I just play away on instinct.

Btw, if anyone wants to know the true meaning of cheapness, just play my yashiro

HCF A/C from hell.

Haha.

 

[LWK]

Athena is the only I really hate fighting against in 2k2.
She's a bitch, plain and simple.
The fastest recovery I ever did see.

However, I really don't have tactics against any character. I just play away on instinct.

Btw, if anyone wants to know the true meaning of cheapness, just play my yashiro

HCF A/C from hell.

Haha.

Yeah, I used that shit on this one player in 2002 a little while back. Really sad that he COULDNT DO SHIT about it.
Once I see Athena, I would rather they use Rugal and go the full monty. Its gotten to that level.

Ralf usually does the job against athena though. All my ownage towards her has almost always been with ralf, just waiting for that stupid close sC fwd+B qcb B shit over and over. His hcb D beats waisting a dm stock. People trying to cross up with her stupid out of screen phoenix arrow.

Yeah I hear you tho, once you corner with Athena or O Yash, theres tons of bs at your disposal to abuse. K9999 is a pain for conering to.

But wtf tho, man cornering issues in a KOF..
Whatever. Least in 98 we didnt have to deal with a speed issue when reacting.
This is why neowave will rule competitively.

 

[firebomber]

I've gotten better against Athena by playing Korigama and he's really good with her. My best anti character so far is K9999. He can keep her locked down in the corner and a lot of his moves out prioitize her. Bait her dp+P move as much as you can because it's about the only move of her's that has some recovery.

I'm looking forward to neowave as well. 2k2 - some of the bs + just defend system sounds fun to me.