Why is Kizuna Encounter (European version) so rare?

[roker]

It would be of no benefit for someone that currently has a Euro Kizuna (and paid 4 or 5 figures for it) to possibly hand it off to someone to prove that it might be some kind of fake.

yeah, at this point the notoriety behind it is so big that it'd make no sense whatsoever. Nothing worse than paying $20,000 for a game only to be told that it's a fake.

Edit: Also something else to consider, didn't the original story entail the seller finding it in a box of stuff and selling it to Shawn? Like the dude just had it among his collection sold it for a ridiculously low price? All of that sounds like a fucking fairy tale.

 

[Tempest]

So how many are known to exist?

 

[lithy]

Euro Kizuna was known to exist within a few years of release, back when even ultra rare English games like U11, Slug 1, NTM and several others didn't sell for more than $2k. Shawn stated he paid ~$500 for his Euro Kizuna. Most others that were 'verified' by Shawn, were from original buyers direct from the distributor.

The game got released in 1996. If you had $300 to spend on a game, you had many better options like KOF96 or Sam Sho 4.

While I like the conspiracy theory that this was an elaborate fake 15 years before the AF3 debacle, let's just go with Occam's razor here.

The European SNK distributor Maro in Germany made a small release, few sold, then the remaining stock was returned to sell in Japan.

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?2550-Kizuna-Encounter-English/

Now that prices are in the stratosphere, faking AF3 made sense. Faking Kizuna would make sense now, but the scrutiny would be much higher. Faking it back in the day would have been easier to conceal, but the payoff was not worthwhile.

 

[roker]

The European SNK distributor Maro in Germany made a small release, few sold, then the remaining stock was returned to sell in Japan.

Has anyone attempted to contact someone from Maro to confirm this? That'd be some crazy investigative journalism. I'll remain a skeptic until we get confirmation. I'd love to be wrong. I have no qualms about that, but I don't think I'll believe it's official until a rep or producer from the source comes out to talk about it.

 

[Tempest]

I never meant to open up old wounds or start conspiracy theories, I was always just curious as to why some games had such low numbers. I guess no one can say for sure.

BTW do we have any numbers for the rarest games? MVS or AES?

 

[Fritz]

But personally, I wouldn’t want to subject my Kizuna Encounter or Ultimate Eleven to any kind of authentication by anyone here. And I certainly wouldn’t send them to anyone either. And not because of the risk of lost, damaged, or stolen packages, but morseso the risk of the possibility of a swap happening.

8man has an authentication service, why not send it to him, I very much doubt he would swap your copy. You both live in the same state, you could even go in person no?

 

[suicidekiller]

@OP: There have been dozens of threads about Kizuna before so what's your point? Asking something like "why is Kizuna rare?" is kinda stupid. Obviously the game didn't sell well

Case closed.

 

[-SD-]

8man has an authentication service, why not send it to him, I very much doubt he would swap your copy. You both live in the same state, you could even go in person no?

This is exactly what I was suggesting. Surely if you had a game that was potentially worth many thousands of dollars you’d want to know, either way?

Other types of artworks and collectibles have verification services, and people won’t touch items without provenance... you’d expect the same of Neo carts of such high value, surely?

 

[Tempest]

@OP: There have been dozens of threads about Kizuna before so what's your point? .

No there really haven't, and the few I found didn't have any real answers other than hearsay and rumor.

Asking something like "why is Kizuna rare?" is kinda stupid. Obviously the game didn't sell well

1. That remains to be proven (although I doubt it was a big seller) and 2. that doesn't explain why there are only a handful of copies out there instead of say a few hundred. Or are you implying that it only sold 20 or less?

Case closed

You heard him folks, case closed. No one dig any deeper into this. God has spoken.


Seriously, why is there always someone like this in every thread?

 

[Tempest]

Other types of artworks and collectibles have verification services, and people won’t touch items without provenance... you’d expect the same of Neo carts of such high value, surely?

I'm starting to wonder if it's not because some of these high priced collectors don't want an answer. Then again unless they're trying to sell said item, that's their business I suppose.

 

[oliverclaude]

There's that urban legend revealed by an employee in an interview, about a whole factory burning down.

Just a postscript... Yamazaki made his interview with Mr. Soichiro Hosoya available on neXgam, a German gaming forum. Here's the part I was referring to:

neXGam: Was war der Grund für den Verkaufstopp von Kizuna Encounter in Europa? Dadurch wurde es ja das teuerste Spiel weltweit.

Mr. Hosoya: Daran erinnern wir uns zwar nicht mehr genau … aber ich denke mal dafür war ein Mangel an ROMs verantwortlich. Damals kamen alle paar Monate neue MVS-Titel raus, es kann also sein, dass wir die ROMs auf Kizuna Encounter dafür benutzt haben (die EPROMs von AES und MVS sind nämlich die gleichen). Oder der Publisher in Europa hat weitere Bestellungen gecancelt, da das Spiel kein Erfolg war …
Ich erinnere mich aber auch daran, dass zu dem Zeitpunkt eine Fabrik die ROMs herstellte explodierte, wodurch eine Zeitlang die ROM-Produktion zum Stillstand kam. Das könnte sehr gut der Grund gewesen sein.

It states a ROM shortage as a possible reason, after all 1996 was a busy year, and further mentions an explosion of a ROM factory as another reason for said shortage. There's also a confirmation of suicidekiller's opinion, namely low sales.

 

[Tempest]

It states a ROM shortage as a possible reason, after all 1996 was a busy year, and further mentions an explosion of a ROM factory as another reason for said shortage. There's also a confirmation of suicidekiller's opinion, namely low sales.

A ROM shortage would make sense, I remember some NES games being in short supply in the late 80's for the same reason. Still doesn't explain the almost single digit numbers though (at least to me). If this were the cause you'd think it would at least be in the upper double digits or low triple. Meh, I guess we'll never have a definitive answer but these are some good theories anyway.

Also, the factory EXPLODED? Seriously?

 

[oliverclaude]

Meh, I guess we'll never have a definitive answer but these are some good guesses anyway.

Yes, we probably won't... but you knew this already, right? If asking those things out of the blue would lead anyone anywhere, everyone would knew everything by now, and the whole story could be reduced to a simple search engine matter.

 

[Tempest]

Yes, we probably won't... but you knew this already, right? If asking those things out of the blue would lead anyone anywhere, everyone would knew everything by now, and the whole story could be reduced to a simple search engine matter.

Some of us are curious about stuff like this. A good mystery is fun.

 

[suicidekiller]

No there really haven't, and the few I found didn't have any real answers other than hearsay and rumor.

So what do you expect from pointless threads like this? That Kawasaki-Sensei logs in to neo-geo.com and gives you a full detail insight story on why Kizuna only sold a handful of copies?

What is known about Kizuna has been hashed and rehashed dozens of times already. And this thread is not gonna shed any more light on this topic than what is already there.

Oh and by the way cynism isn't going to help you either to give you answers.

 

[Tempest]

So what do you expect from pointless threads like this? That Kawasaki-Sensei logs in to neo-geo.com and gives you a full detail insight story on why Kizuna only sold a handful of copies?

What is known about Kizuna has been hashed and rehashed dozens of times already. And this thread is not gonna shed any more light on this topic than what is already there.

What I hope is that someone may have had some new info. Just because someone was discussed 10+ years ago doesn't mean new info hasn't been found since then. New people join the board all the time, maybe one of them had new info or a different take on things. I've already learned some new things and I'm sure others have as well.

Why does this bother you so? If you think it's pointless to ask the question then ignore it. It's not like I'm spamming the board with question after question. Or is it just that this is a touchy subject for some reason?

Oh and by the way cynism isn't going to help you either to give you answers.

Well then don't shitpost on other peoples threads then. If you don't care about the subject at hand, ignore it. Your contribution to this thread so far has only been to tell me that my question was pointless and I was dumb for asking. Wow thanks. I bet you're fun at parties.

 

[Neo Alec]

The game was released in Japan, so all we're talking about is a manual and insert anyway. It would've been really trivial to print more or less copies of them. Or put Japanese stickers on the carts.

 

[Tempest]

The game was released in Japan, so all we're talking about is a manual and insert anyway. It would've been really trivial to print more or less copies of them. Or put Japanese stickers on the carts.

I don't know what printing costs were like back then but it couldn't have been that cheap. Plus you have the cost of translating and typesetting the new manual and whatnot. But you're probably right, the main cost was in the carts themselves which were universal.

So to sum things up it was most likely one (or a combination) of the following:

1. Low sales and the remaining copies were either re-purposed or destroyed.
2. A small print run due to a ROM shortage (factory explosion!)
3. No regular print run at all, just some samples were made
4. It's a fake

 

[roker]

4. It's a fake

That's the reality I'm rolling with.

 

[Tempest]

That's the reality I'm rolling with.

It's an interesting theory, but without anyone letting an expert look at their copy there's no way we'll ever know. Of course even if they let someone look at their copy there's no guarantee they can tell one way or another.

I suppose there's a fifth possibility, that there's an undiscovered warehouse full of them somewhere. That possibility seems pretty remote though. Although something like this did happen with Atari stuff down in Venezuela, so anything is possible.

 

[evil wasabi]

Tempest, you opened the floodgates here and brought us a tempest!

It was only a matter of time though. Because today’s society, especially the youth, doubts & questions absolutely anything & everything in the world; wether or not it has been previously established by past generations. Today’s teachers & parents tell them to do so. There is zero acknowledgement and/or respect for others. The Kennedy assassination, the moon landing, September 11th, etc. Oh and the internet is infallible!

But personally, I wouldn’t want to subject my Kizuna Encounter or Ultimate Eleven to any kind of authentication by anyone here. And I certainly wouldn’t send them to anyone either. And not because of the risk of lost, damaged, or stolen packages, but morseso the risk of the possibility of a swap happening.

So most likely, this mystery in neogeo’s history is destined to remain as such.

Road trip to Memphis like Mott the Hoople.

 

[oliverclaude]

...so anything is possible.

According to the known facts: no.

 

[Tempest]

Road trip to Memphis like Mott the Hoople.

Now there's a reference I never expected to see.

According to the known facts: no.

Never let facts get in the way of a good theory!

 

[Viewpoint]

My only take from this is this kinda shit is this is why Dion & Chris Ray were able to sucker so many people in paying insane prices for fake games.

Nobody back then knew what was real or not from SNK.

 

[oliverclaude]

Some of us are curious about stuff like this. A good mystery is fun.

You dig a good mystery? Here's an old-but-gold fave of mine... Asparagus Pee: Do you have the genes to produce it or is it just to smell it?

Tell me what you got, Tempest in a tea pot .