Ultimate Marvel Vs. Capcom 3

cyriades · Jul 26, 2011

So, apparently C(r)apcom's shilling out the "championship edition" of the game already, in November, around the same time as KoF XIII. I'm wondering how it may / may not affect XIII's sales? Or if this is just a non issue, since a lot of people seem to be seething mad at Capcom over this.

bradtemple87 · Jul 26, 2011

cyriades said:
So, apparently C(r)apcom's shilling out the "championship edition" of the game already, in November, around the same time as KoF XIII. I'm wondering how it may / may not affect XIII's sales? Or if this is just a non issue, since a lot of people seem to be seething mad at Capcom over this.

I think because of the feelings toward capcom right now, the game should do just fine. The word of mouth going around about the quality of XIII is only helping.

Taiso · Jul 26, 2011

I have no problem with it, personally. It's Capcom. It's to be expected.

And the new version has Strider. There are some things a person just buys. For me, this is one of them.

Won't help or hurt XIII's sales at all, IMO.

complexz · Jul 26, 2011

yeah, I don't think it will effect anything.

roker · Jul 27, 2011

can they fix the tagging?

I should just be able to tap a button.

Kind of retarded if you ask me.

ikariwarriorf22 · Jul 27, 2011

cyriades, Why get mad at Capcom for adding 12 new characters, including Iron Fist and Strider? To me it makes the best game of this year even more Awesome! I am definitely pre-ordering this today. To get to 50 characters I think Jill Valentine and Shuma Gorath (Dr. Strange Villain) are included as they were the only dlc characters!

Megadragon15 · Jul 27, 2011

Hopefully, both KOF XIII and UMVC3 can both be successful.

cyriades · Jul 27, 2011

If people want UMVC3, God forbid I should stop them lol. But my problem with the game is it's way too soon imo, and they really should have made this a DLC update.

Taiso · Jul 27, 2011

cyriades said:
If people want UMVC3, God forbid I should stop them lol. But my problem with the game is it's way too soon imo, and they really should have made this a DLC update.

First of all, let's assome you aren't asking Capcom to give 12 new characters away for free. Because you seem like a reasonable guy and I know you wouldn't think something so patently ludicrous. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, here.

These are EXTRA characters, not part of the original build, and as such they bring extra value. If Capcom wants to add them as DLC, then customers should have to pay to use them. They put work into developing them, and they aren't 'unlocks' like Jill and Shuma.

They're all new content. That takes time, research, testing. We're talking animatinos, graphics, game balance, move sets, speech, character specific music, ending cinemas and everything else that goes with adding this kind of content to a game. That requires the company to devote resources -developers, work stations, electricity, ect- so they should see a return on the investment of resources. Logical, right?

12 characters at 5 bucks a pop, the expected going rate, would be 60 dollars.

The cost of a brand new game.

Just for 12 characters. Not even including all the other content they're sure to add, such as new backgrounds, game modes and all the rest.

Now, this cost could have been spread out over the course of many months to soften the blow for the consumer. 60 bucks at once is a lot to ask. Hell, for some of the more miserly consumers, 10 bucks every two months (presuming they'd add two characters every month over the course of a year, one Capcom and one Marvel) is a lot to ask. But all the same, this is a part of business: extend the life of the game for the consumer while attempting to profit from the work done. ESPECIALLY for a franchise named 'Marvel vs. Capcom.'

The earthquakes in Japan completely fucked up their development and release schedule for the game. There's been no new content WORTH NOTING, no continuing stream of DLC to keep the general market excited about the game. All because a natural disaster cocked up their plans.

So what Capcom has done instead is modify the plan. They continued to develop the characters, work they were probably doing at the time of the disasters, but the infrastructure to release the content just wasn't there to follow the original proposed release schedule.

So instead, they decided to release all of this content earlier than expected at a VALUE to the consumer.

You get the entire old game along with new characters and game modes, at LESS than it would have cost the consumer over an extended DLC releaase timeframe.

I am not saying Capcom is some golden bastion of industry honor. But really, when you take all the factors into account, this really is the best way they can release this content and still profit from it.

To me, that sounds like good business: giving the consumers a break while still making money.

I don't see the problem.

At all.

cyriades · Jul 27, 2011

I'd never say there should be a requirement for companies to release their updates for free. As you noted, there was a lot of development involved. I just think it would be preferable to have the new version available as a cumulative DLC update at whatever asking price Capcom settled on. But based on your logical points, though, I will concede that there should be a retail store version available as well.

saner · Jul 27, 2011

MVC/Capcom fanatics out there really enjoy taking it up the ass despite being cheated like this with such a rushed re-release of virtually the same fighting game.

Capcom didn't even give MVC3 space to breathe, it was released only a few months ago. And it's confirmed they have DLC planned for UMVC3 separately.

They are shamelessly milking the franchise for all its worth, and it will most likely still be really broken and dumbed down compared to much better fighting games.

Capcom supporters should wake up and realize Capcom is going too far. Most of those new characters are trash picks anyways. The only good ones are Strider, maybe Vergil, and possibly Nemesis. But the art, animations and gameplay will still be trash anyways, so why bother?

If anything, this should hurt Capcom's reputation further, but they will probably get away with it since they have a big Nintendo quality delusional fanbase backing them up.

Taiso · Jul 27, 2011

cyriades said:
I'd never say there should be a requirement for companies to release their updates for free. As you noted, there was a lot of development involved. I just think it would be preferable to have the new version available as a cumulative DLC update at whatever asking price Capcom settled on. But based on your logical points, though, I will concede that there should be a retail store version available as well.

Yep, I never meant to imply you were arguing for free content.

I think, personally, I prefer to pay less and get it all at once over paying more over a longer period of time. I think this is Capcom's mea culpa for doing it this way. Or maybe they feel it's the only way they can get away with it, given other recent developments both inside the industry (their terrible save data scheme with RE: Mercenaries 3D) or outside (natural disasters.) Either way, paying 20 bucks less and getting it all at once, and well before March 2012, is OK in my book.

As for Saner's comments, I'll just refrain from responding because arguing with someone who legitiamizes Momoko is the most pointless waste of whatever time is left to me on this mortal coil.

Jedah Doma · Jul 27, 2011

Taiso said:
First of all, let's assome you aren't asking Capcom to give 12 new characters away for free. Because you seem like a reasonable guy and I know you wouldn't think something so patently ludicrous. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, here.

These are EXTRA characters, not part of the original build, and as such they bring extra value. If Capcom wants to add them as DLC, then customers should have to pay to use them. They put work into developing them, and they aren't 'unlocks' like Jill and Shuma.

They're all new content. That takes time, research, testing. We're talking animatinos, graphics, game balance, move sets, speech, character specific music, ending cinemas and everything else that goes with adding this kind of content to a game. That requires the company to devote resources -developers, work stations, electricity, ect- so they should see a return on the investment of resources. Logical, right?

12 characters at 5 bucks a pop, the expected going rate, would be 60 dollars.

The cost of a brand new game.

Just for 12 characters. Not even including all the other content they're sure to add, such as new backgrounds, game modes and all the rest.

Now, this cost could have been spread out over the course of many months to soften the blow for the consumer. 60 bucks at once is a lot to ask. Hell, for some of the more miserly consumers, 10 bucks every two months (presuming they'd add two characters every month over the course of a year, one Capcom and one Marvel) is a lot to ask. But all the same, this is a part of business: extend the life of the game for the consumer while attempting to profit from the work done. ESPECIALLY for a franchise named 'Marvel vs. Capcom.'

The earthquakes in Japan completely fucked up their development and release schedule for the game. There's been no new content WORTH NOTING, no continuing stream of DLC to keep the general market excited about the game. All because a natural disaster cocked up their plans.

So what Capcom has done instead is modify the plan. They continued to develop the characters, work they were probably doing at the time of the disasters, but the infrastructure to release the content just wasn't there to follow the original proposed release schedule.

So instead, they decided to release all of this content earlier than expected at a VALUE to the consumer.

You get the entire old game along with new characters and game modes, at LESS than it would have cost the consumer over an extended DLC releaase timeframe.

I am not saying Capcom is some golden bastion of industry honor. But really, when you take all the factors into account, this really is the best way they can release this content and still profit from it.

To me, that sounds like good business: giving the consumers a break while still making money.

I don't see the problem.

At all.

My friend, I'm all for giving Capcom the benefit of the doubt, but I hope you're not serious in the idea that Capcom programmed these 12 new characters the day after MvC3 was released. At least a handful of these characters have been in development since the game was announced. Thing is, Capcom has turned into greedy bastards. They released the first MvC3 unfinished and with bugs. So instead of releasing the game with the full intended roster, they scaled back and released the game with what they had finished. Now six months later they are releasing the game as is should have been with 12 more characters.

If you think Capcom is doing us a favor, I'll let you live in that delusion. Capcom understands how to milk the system, and UMvC3 is the "ultimate" (no pun intended) whoring out of a franchise. I sold the first MvC3 and won't be picking up this new re-hash so Capcom can make a quick buck off of their own laziness.

Taiso · Jul 27, 2011

Jedah Doma said:
My friend, I'm all for giving Capcom the benefit of the doubt,

No offense, but I've seen your tirades against Capcom all over this site so I don't think you're for giving Capcom the benefit of the doubt at all.

Jedah Doma said:
but I hope you're not serious in the idea that Capcom programmed these 12 new characters the day after MvC3 was released. At least a handful of these characters have been in development since the game was announced.

No, I'm certain they had an idea, well before the fact, to develop these characters and release them as DLC in a staged timeframe. And I'm sure they were developing more than a few before the first build of the game was released.

Jedah Doma said:
Thing is, Capcom has turned into greedy bastards.

Are we talking about the same Capcom that's been releasing 'updates' and 'tweaks' to their games snice the early 90s?

They haven't 'turned into' greedy bastards.

They've ALWAYS been greedy bastards.

That release good games.

Jedah Doma said:
They released the first MvC3 unfinished and with bugs. So instead of releasing the game with the full intended roster, they scaled back and released the game with what they had finished. Now six months later they are releasing the game as is should have been with 12 more characters.

As has been pointed out, people should know Capcom's game and not piss and moan when they do exactly what they did here.

If a person bought MvC 3 and are now upset that they are releasing an updated version, they should be slapping themselves for being stupid.

Jedah Doma said:
If you think Capcom is doing us a favor, I'll let you live in that delusion. Capcom understands how to milk the system, and UMvC3 is the "ultimate" (no pun intended) whoring out of a franchise. I sold the first MvC3 and won't be picking up this new re-hash so Capcom can make a quick buck off of their own laziness.

I think you misunderstand my viewpoint.

I don't see Capcom as being generally benevolent to me. They want my money and they'll use every dirty trick in the book to get it.

But they could have gotten more of my money by waiting a few more months and just formulaicly releasing the next version a year later.

There are only two ways to look at this. Period.

1.) Capcom could have charged me more later, or over a longer stretch of time.

2.) Capcom could release it now, at a cheaper price point and frontloaded with most of the content, at a lower cost.

Sounds like, given the two choices, Capcom IS doing me a favor.

There is no kool aid drinking going on here. I know what Capcom is. I also know they release games I enjoy. I'm a grown up, well aware of the 'perils' of spending money on 'the evil corporation's manipulative products.'

And I really don't care. Nor should I.

complexz · Jul 27, 2011

world warrior sucked

alpha 1 sucked

new generation sucked

capcom milking things is nothing but beneficial to me.

Jedah Doma · Jul 27, 2011

Taiso said:
No offense, but I've seen your tirades against Capcom all over this site so I don't think you're for giving Capcom the benefit of the doubt at all.

So I must be a avid Capcom supporter and speak no ill of them for my opinion to hold any water? Brilliant. Capcom was and is still one of my favorite companies. Though unlike yourself, I understand you can love a company, while at the same time being critical of their practices.

Taiso said:
Are we talking about the same Capcom that's been releasing 'updates' and 'tweaks' to their games snice the early 90s?

They haven't 'turned into' greedy bastards.

They've ALWAYS been greedy bastards.

That release good games.

So because they release good games, it's alright for them to be greedy bastards? You've got a real battered wife syndrome going on here. "He beats me to a bloody pulp, but he takes care of me and buys me my carton of Marlboro's every week so I still love him."

Taiso said:
As has been pointed out, people should know Capcom's game and not piss and moan when they do exactly what they did here.

If a person bought MvC 3 and are now upset that they are releasing an updated version, they should be slapping themselves for being stupid.

Oh please don't take this as me being surprised, just tired of the same old BS.

Taiso said:
I think you misunderstand my viewpoint.

I don't see Capcom as being generally benevolent to me. They want my money and they'll use every dirty trick in the book to get it.

But they could have gotten more of my money by waiting a few more months and just formulaicly releasing the next version a year later.

There are only two ways to look at this. Period.

1.) Capcom could have charged me more later, or over a longer stretch of time.

2.) Capcom could release it now, at a cheaper price point and frontloaded with most of the content, at a lower cost.

Sounds like, given the two choices, Capcom IS doing me a favor.

There is no kool aid drinking going on here. I know what Capcom is. I also know they release games I enjoy. I'm a grown up, well aware of the 'perils' of spending money on 'the evil corporation's manipulative products.'

And I really don't care. Nor should I.

So essentially your argument is you know you're getting shafted, you're just glad the shaft isn't bigger? Hey, I can respect a guy who sees the glass as half full, but you're still getting reamed by Capcom no matter how you look at it.

To each his own.

My real beef with this release is that it will be required to buy if players want to stay relevant with the tournament and/or online scene. It turns it from optional DLC to essentially required DLC and Capcom knows that. I imagine they'll do like with SFAE and allow you to play others with both MvC3 and/or UMvC3. Though like is the case with SFAE, I rarely see anyone play vs. a vanilla or Super player.

Taiso · Jul 27, 2011

Jedah Doma said:
So I must be a avid Capcom supporter and speak no ill of them for my opinion to hold any water? Brilliant. Capcom was and is still one of my favorite companies. Though unlike yourself, I understand you can love a company, while at the same time being critical of their practices.

'Unlike yourself' is passive aggressive nonsense and you're better than that. Please don't be so defensive with me. We're having a conversation, not attacking one another.

And anyway, I cop to knowing exactly what they are in the body of my response to you, so your assertion that I can't see the truth holds no water.

I only know what I read here, and lately I only read you bitching about Capcom's business practices. You *haven't* given Capcomthe benefit of the doubt whenever they do something like this.

Jedah Doma said:
So because they release good games, it's alright for them to be greedy bastards? You've got a real battered wife syndrome going on here. "He beats me to a bloody pulp, but he takes care of me and buys me my carton of Marlboro's every week so I still love him."

A battered wife and a person who buys video games from a company he knows is greedy are two entirely different things, and the psychological analogy doesn't even remotely apply.

One is an irrational impulse born from fear and insecurity, the other out of a lack of regard for how a cynical video game company sells and recycles its products to get my money.

Jedah Doma said:
Oh please don't take this as me being surprised, just tired of the same old BS.

I don't blame you for being tired of it.

The emotion is wasted energy, though.

Jedah Doma said:
So essentially your argument is you know you're getting shafted, you're just glad the shaft isn't bigger? Hey, I can respect a guy who sees the glass as half full, but you're still getting reamed by Capcom no matter how you look at it.

To each his own.

My argument isn't anything remotely close to your insinuation.

Getting reamed by Capcom implies they are unfairly taking advantage of me. Which would imply I didn't know what they were going to do well ahead of the fact.

I knew what MvC 3 was. I saw the roster and the many glaring omissions.

I knew who Capcom was.

I knew what to expect.

And I still gave them my money and played the game.

And based on what they're offering in this update, and at the price point, and taking everything prior to this into accont, I will give them my money again.

And I still see the reality of the situation, taking all the factors I've discussed into account, as the preferrable of the two avenues they could have taken.

Sorry, no offense because I like you and think you're a decent guy, but your arguemnt has no legs to stand on. It just comes off as emotional, thoughtless rage. But don't take that for a judgement of your character. I just think you're passionate about this subject, and I've been there myself. See my KOF XII hate postings.

So this is not the pot calling the kettle black. I just think your judgement of Capcom isn't objective enough.

EDIT: Added this comment after you edited your post:

Jedah Doma said:
My real beef with this release is that it will be required to buy if players want to stay relevant with the tournament and/or online scene. It turns it from optional DLC to essentially required DLC and Capcom knows that. I imagine they'll do like with SFAE and allow you to play others with both MvC3 and/or UMvC3. Though like is the case with SFAE, I rarely see anyone play vs. a vanilla or Super player.

At least this is a new wrinkle to the tired old 'I hate Capcom's business practices' rants I see all over the internet.

I think it's a fair argument to make...if you are in the tournament scene.

I can't really address this one as I'm not a tournament scene player. That scene doesn't concern me. I really don't care how they get affected and that is their battle to fight with Capcom. I will get UMvC 3, my friends will get it, and we will play it.

I would agree that Capcom isn't being considerate enough of a scene that loves their product more than anyone else on the planet, and that's a shitty thing. But again, not my fight. So I won't waste energy on it.

Jedah Doma · Jul 27, 2011

Taiso said:
'Unlike yourself' is passive aggressive nonsense and you're better than that. Please don't be so defensive with me. We're having a conversation, not attacking one another.

Sorry if I came off douchey on the remark. That wasn't the goal of my comment. Just as you feel I'm a too harsh on Capcom, I feel you're being a little too easy on them.

Taiso said:
And anyway, I cop to knowing exactly what they are in the body of my response to you, so your assertion that I can't see the truth holds no water.

I only know what I read here, and lately I only read you bitching about Capcom's business practices. You *haven't* given Capcomthe benefit of the doubt whenever they do something like this.

I bought both SFIV and Super SFIV. I'm all for giving Capcom the benefit of the doubt. The difference being the original SFIV felt like a finished game IMO. Super was an add on I saw coming from a mile away and I purchased it. I wanted all the new features and upgrades. UMvC3 feels like a band-aid put out to fix a broken game and add characters/features which should have been there from the get go. On the other hand, Super SFIV feels like they added extra content and characters to an already finished game.

Taiso said:
I don't blame you for being tired of it.

The emotion is wasted energy, though.

Can't blame a guy for trying though.

Taiso said:
My argument isn't anything remotely close to your insinuation.

Getting reamed by Capcom implies they are unfairly taking advantage of me. Which would imply I didn't know what they were going to do well ahead of the fact.

I knew what MvC 3 was. I saw the roster and the many glaring omissions.

I knew who Capcom was.

I knew what to expect.

And I still gave them my money and played the game.

And based on what they're offering in this update, and at the price point, and taking everything prior to this into accont, I will give them my money again.

And I still see the reality of the situation, taking all the factors I've discussed into account, as the preferrable of the two avenues they could have taken.

Well on that I think we'll have to agree to disagree. We just both see it in different lights.

Taiso said:
Sorry, no offense because I like you and think you're a decent guy, but your arguemnt has no legs to stand on. It just comes off as emotional, thoughtless rage. But don't take that for a judgement of your character. I just think you're passionate about this subject, and I've been there myself. See my KOF XII hate postings.

So this is not the pot calling the kettle black. I just think your judgement of Capcom isn't objective enough.

I hear ya man. Again, sorry if I came of as a dick. It wasn't my intention at all.

I won't deny there's a certain measure of emotion mixed into my opinion. Though I don't feel that clouds my judgement to a huge degree. If UMvC3 ends up being the game we should have gotten six months ago with all sorts of balance changes and a new roster that makes it amazing, I'll certainly belly up to bar and buy a copy. I'm not beyond eating a healthy serving of crow. I'm just cautious.

complexz · Jul 27, 2011

I donno how people can not play a game out of principle. I knew mvc3 had shitty useless netcode and I absolutely hate that, because of that and the lack of a arcade version the game went stagnant way to early for me, but I paid for it anyway, am I a sucker? I don't think I am, 60 or 70 bucks was a fucking bargain for the hundreds of awesome hours of fun I've had with friends over the last 7 months.

Now capcom is going to potentially give me the missing online play in a whole new tweaked and updated version for less money than the characters would have costed in DLC? Sign me up! I know the online should have been good in the first place, but the awesome hours of fun I've had and anyone could have had made the game a great purchase anyway.

I just can't relate to someone who feels like they got ripped off 60 bucks because a new version is coming out like over 9 months later, was the 9 months of gameplay worth nothing? I certainly didn't play mass effect 2, vanquish or yakuza 4 (random full price games I bought and love) for 9 months....

Taiso · Jul 27, 2011

Jedah Doma said:
Sorry if I came off douchey on the remark. That wasn't the goal of my comment. Just as you feel I'm a too harsh on Capcom, I feel you're being a little too easy on them.

No worries, mang. I know that your anger isn't specifically towards me, but more that my thoughts are espousing the opposite of your feelings on the subject. If we were given to arguing on a regular basis in these parts, it would be different but I think this is just two decent peeps with vastly differing viewpoints.

I think that I would be harder on them if I felt I was truly being reamed, as with KOF XII.

Jedah Doma said:
Can't blame a guy for trying though.

Jedah Doma said:
Well on that I think we'll have to agree to disagree. We just both see it in different lights.

Sometimes, it happens

Jedah Doma said:
I hear ya man. Again, sorry if I came of as a dick. It wasn't my intention at all.

Again, no worries.

Jedah Doma said:
I won't deny there's a certain measure of emotion mixed into my opinion. Though I don't feel that clouds my judgement to a huge degree. If UMvC3 ends up being the game we should have gotten six months ago with all sorts of balance changes and a new roster that makes it amazing, I'll certainly belly up to bar and buy a copy. I'm not beyond eating a healthy serving of crow. I'm just cautious.

This, I think, is more the truth of the guy behind the emotion and gives me a much better understanding of your viewpoint.

The fact that you're willing to buy the game if it's something you think is worth the dollars speaks volumes in favor of your objectivity. It's commendable, really. Need more of this kind of honest on the internetz.

alec · Jul 27, 2011

This thread has lost all relevance to Neo Geo News. It was only loosely related from the start and the game has been discussed in Unrelated since the announcement.

cyriades · Jul 27, 2011

alec said:
This thread has lost all relevance to Neo Geo News. It was only loosely related from the start and the game has been discussed in Unrelated since the announcement.

Except that it's a fighting game, a Capcom game, and coming out around the same time as King of Fighters XIII. This thread certainly went off course, but that's not entirely a bad thing because of the quality of the conversation.

LWK · Jul 27, 2011

I am done with capcom for now.

Neo Alec · Jul 27, 2011

The issue is this is releasing at a time when SNKP was hoping to benefit from having th only new fighter around. They cock blocked them.

Taiso · Jul 28, 2011

I highly, HIGHLY doubt the release schedule of UMvC 3 has anything to do with what SNK-P is doing at that same time.

And it won't hurt KOF XIII's sales at all. The game is still going to sell as many copies as it would have before.

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