Neo Geo CD backup system/battery for saves

This neo link shows a interesting debate ( about 10 posts )
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123290

I came here as I hope someone can help me answer my question, how to preserve saves, can i back them up, s the neo CD battery based or like a very mini HD for saves

I have played neo CD for a few years but I have FULLY saved my shit and I DON'T want 2 lost it, how can I recharge battery the safest way ?

read the link and u guys will get a better idea

I spoke to a friend today who owns a Jap Top Loader. He was in the same prediciment as you. He had around 3 years of hard earned saves on his machine. One day he turned on his console and EVERY GAMES DATA HAD GONE!! He later found out that the Battery (CD has Battery Back-up, No Harddrive) had died. He replaced it and had to start from scratch. He said the battery was easy enough to replace as it just had a clip soldered to the Mobo, but he was annoyed about losing all his saves. Im a keen CD user and i still to this day haven't heard of anyway of backing up the game data. Hopefully someone can put me wrong and advise on a way to do this. It seems a fatal flaw of the machine. The Saturn had a Cartridge Expansion slot that could except a Memory unit so that data could be transfered back and forth. It seems as Neo was one of the first CD stand alone units of its era, it was kind of a benchmark in terms of technology, but they were flaws that weren't addressed (CD Cache Buffer, Memory save system) and other manufacturers obviously improved on this with later machines/technology.
The CDZ addressed the CD Buffer and tried to make loading times better, did it do anything with the Memory situation?

Neo Aes=Good, Neo Mvs=Good, Neo Cd=Bad. I have a near mint neo cd original style that I haven't played in 4 years. Its the worst system ever in the post 32 bit era. I swear load times are horrible. It takes the last blade 2 4 and a half minutes to load beteen rounds. WHAT THE HELL WAS SNK THINKING. No seriously I am asking you a question. But about the battery, its a chargable lithium type so you have to power it up for 4 hours a week. The battery should only be a issue if you have samurai shodown rpg saves. What is your friend still doing with a neo cd still in use.

GnarlyDan said:

I spoke to a friend today who owns a Jap Top Loader. He was in the same prediciment as you. He had around 3 years of hard earned saves on his machine. One day he turned on his console and EVERY GAMES DATA HAD GONE!! He later found out that the Battery (CD has Battery Back-up, No Harddrive) had died. He replaced it and had to start from scratch. He said the battery was easy enough to replace as it just had a clip soldered to the Mobo, but he was annoyed about losing all his saves. Im a keen CD user and i still to this day haven't heard of anyway of backing up the game data. Hopefully someone can put me wrong and advise on a way to do this. It seems a fatal flaw of the machine. The Saturn had a Cartridge Expansion slot that could except a Memory unit so that data could be transfered back and forth. It seems as Neo was one of the first CD stand alone units of its era, it was kind of a benchmark in terms of technology, but they were flaws that weren't addressed (CD Cache Buffer, Memory save system) and other manufacturers obviously improved on this with later machines/technology.
The CDZ addressed the CD Buffer and tried to make loading times better, did it do anything with the Memory situation?

Click to expand...

OK so let me clarify this, if I get a brand new lithum battery, all I have 2 do is take the old one and out and put the new one in ?

Do I have 2 detach it from a wire if its stuck on there, you know what I will be will to pay a [erson to come to my house and change the battery with out losing all my saves.
If u know anyone who can do this and is trustworthy, then I will make it worth his while

The Legendary LoneWolf said:

OK so let me clarify this, if I get a brand new lithum battery, all I have 2 do is take the old one and out and put the new one in ?

Do I have 2 detach it from a wire if its stuck on there, you know what I will be will to pay a [erson to come to my house and change the battery with out losing all my saves.
If u know anyone who can do this and is trustworthy, then I will make it worth his while

Click to expand...

Shit! Sounds like you REALLY treasure your saves if your willing to get someone to come out to it! Best/Simplist thing to do is turn it on, if there still there play it everyday, or even just leave it on for a few hours a day to get a charge into the battery. If the saves are still there, touch wood repeatedly untill you get harsh splinters!, and hope that it will never run out! I really don't think there is anything you can do with regards to changing the battery without losing it all, but i hope someone can prove me wrong.

Measure the voltage/throughput on the battery clip and backup it with a small adjustable PSU while the battery gets changed, similar to exchanging suicide batteries on cps2/3. This way, you won't loose any saves.

Takumaji said:

Measure the voltage/throughput on the battery clip and backup it with a small adjustable PSU while the battery gets changed, similar to exchanging suicide batteries on cps2/3. This way, you won't loose any saves.

Click to expand...

sounds complicated, is there a website that shows how 2 do this

The Legendary LoneWolf said:

sounds complicated, is there a website that shows how 2 do this

Click to expand...

I don't know a website with step-by-step docs about that, sorry.

Here's another idea, tech heads plz correct me if I'm wrong:

When your NGCD unit is switched on, the battery wil lbe recharged and thus is not in use for backing up your saves, it only comes into play when the console is off, so IIRC, you can safely swap batteries while your unit is running without losing any game saves.

At least this method works with CMOS backup batteries in PCs, so I see no reason why this shouldn't work with NGCDs.

well I am trying 2 find my neo CD as we speak and I hope when i turn it on as I have not played it for a couple to a few years the saves are still on there

I dun wanna open mine. so just wondering wat type of battery izzit?

mainman said:

Neo Aes=Good, Neo Mvs=Good, Neo Cd=Bad. I have a near mint neo cd original style that I haven't played in 4 years. Its the worst system ever in the post 32 bit era. I swear load times are horrible. It takes the last blade 2 4 and a half minutes to load beteen rounds. WHAT THE HELL WAS SNK THINKING. No seriously I am asking you a question. But about the battery, its a chargable lithium type so you have to power it up for 4 hours a week. The battery should only be a issue if you have samurai shodown rpg saves. What is your friend still doing with a neo cd still in use.

Click to expand...

So helpfull....
STFU plz.

Takumaji said:

I don't know a website with step-by-step docs about that, sorry.

Here's another idea, tech heads plz correct me if I'm wrong:

When your NGCD unit is switched on, the battery wil lbe recharged and thus is not in use for backing up your saves, it only comes into play when the console is off, so IIRC, you can safely swap batteries while your unit is running without losing any game saves.

At least this method works with CMOS backup batteries in PCs, so I see no reason why this shouldn't work with NGCDs.

Click to expand...

I read/heard this somewhere too. It said it should work but obviously you need to be wary of the VOLTS and be very careful.
Common sense and patience should be enough to change it this way.
I like the idea of running a Back-up power source to the Battery Clip. That sounds like a plan to me and thats the route i'd take.

HellioN said:

So helpfull....
STFU plz.

Click to expand...

Your ignorant comment wasn't only warranted but also not helpful either in case you didn't notice you dum fuck, so I will respond in kind. At least some of my comments were related somewhat to the topic, yours however were related to your obvious lack of social skills which are a result of you having no life so you lash out at others. If you want to be a shut in asshole take it to the war room. If you would have read my post assuming you can read since you seem to use short hand alot to cover your illiteracy you would have seen I did answer his question. He asked how can I charge the battery and I answered it charges while the machine is on, so charge it for 4 hours a week. So before you poke fun at someone elses solution you should come up with one of your own first you little mark ass bitch.

How to back-up SRAM chips to a PC

OK. There is a way to backup SRAM chips to your computer, but it's tough...really tough. (I havn't tried this but it's what I would do if I was fanatical about my saves and wanted them on my PC for safekeeping)

1. Find the SRAM chip used for saves.
2. Lookup the datasheet so you have a pinout.
3. Get an EPROM programmer (willem or PCB3+, I have PCB3+ and it can dump and program SRAM chips)
4. Now the hard part...connecting your SRAM chip on the board to the programmer. You'll have to solder a wire to each lead on the sram chip (very, very hard if it is surface mounted). Then you must place the other end of each wire into the corresponding hole on the ZIF socket of the programmer (use the datasheet to get the pinout, if it's SOIC match the pins to the DIP version of the same chip in the datasheet).
5. Use the programmer software to read the data from the SRAM chip (you will have to choose the chip from a menu first) and then save this data to your computer's hard drive. Now all of your game saves will be on your PC.

To place these saves back on the sram chip:
1. Hook up all those hard to solder wires and connect it to the programmer.
2. Choose the correct SRAM type again.
3. Open your saved file (probably a .bin file) and write it to the chip. You may have to blank the chip before writing in new data. This probably depends on the chip type.

If you were to desolder the chip so you could simply pop it right into the programmer, supply voltage would be cut and the saves would go away.

I kinda hope noone out there is so obsessed with saves that they try this, but if you do please let me know how it goes!

*note* Since there is not yet a known way to dump saves by inserting a MVS/AES memory card in a PCMCIA slot, this whole procedure could also be done with the memory cards for AES/MVS. You just have to open the card up and solder in the extra wires to connect the programmer.

cheers!
-DT

dogtoy said:

OK. There is a way to backup SRAM chips to your computer, but it's tough...really tough. (I havn't tried this but it's what I would do if I was fanatical about my saves and wanted them on my PC for safekeeping)

1. Find the SRAM chip used for saves.
2. Lookup the datasheet so you have a pinout.
3. Get an EPROM programmer (willem or PCB3+, I have PCB3+ and it can dump and program SRAM chips)
4. Now the hard part...connecting your SRAM chip on the board to the programmer. You'll have to solder a wire to each lead on the sram chip (very, very hard if it is surface mounted). Then you must place the other end of each wire into the corresponding hole on the ZIF socket of the programmer (use the datasheet to get the pinout, if it's SOIC match the pins to the DIP version of the same chip in the datasheet).
5. Use the programmer software to read the data from the SRAM chip and then save this data to your computer's hard drive. Now all of your game saves will be on your PC.

The reason for adding the wires to the board is power. If you were to desolder the chip so you could simply pop it right into the programmer, supply voltage would be cut and the saves would go away.

I kinda hope noone out there is so obsessed with saves that they try this, but if you do please let me know how it goes!

*note* Since there is not yet a known way to dump saves by inserting a MVS/AES memory card in a PCMCIA slot, this whole procedure could also be done with the memory cards for AES/MVS. You just have to open the card up and solder in the extra wires to connect the programmer.

cheers!
-DT

Click to expand...

But wont leaving the ram connected to the neo somehow interfer with this process. I know of course you telling him to do this why the neo is powered down but there still might be variables. For instance I think the battery that supplies the ram with power in the off state is switched from providing power to charging when the machine is turned on, so when the machine is on the battery is off/charging and when the machine is off the battery is on/discharging. If you applied a voltage to the neo cd why the unit was off wouldn't the chip be getting power from both the eprom burner which is providing the same amount of voltage the neo cd would be and the backup battery? A catch 22, and of course like you said you couldn't desolder the chips either.

mainman said:

But wont leaving the ram connected to the neo somehow interfer with this process. I know of course you telling him to do this why the neo is powered down but there still might be variables. For instance I think the battery that supplies the ram with power in the off state is switched from providing power to charging when the machine is turned on, so when the machine is on the battery is off/charging and when the machine is off the battery is on/discharging. If you applied a voltage to the neo cd why the unit was off the wouldn't the chip would be getting power from both the eprom burner which is providing the same amount of voltage the neo cd would be and the backup battery? A catch 22, and of course like you said you couldn't desolder the chips either.

Click to expand...

I am pretty positive that leaving the battery connected will not cause problems with reading the chip or writing to the chip...as long as you insert all the wires into the programmer correctly you should be fine. Some SRAM chips have a pin specifically for a back-up battery, obviously this should not be connected to the EPROM programmer.

If the back-up battery is connected to the Vcc+ pin (main power pin) you could try it with this pin not connected to the eprom programmer, but I would be willing to bet that it would not matter if you did connect it. I would try it connected to the EPROM programmer first because the back-up battery probably cannot supply enough voltage for the SRAM to operate, only enough for it to retain data. That is why the chip probably requires +5v for operation but most back-up batteries are somewhere wround +3.7v

cheers,
-DT

dogtoy said:

I am pretty positive that leaving the battery connected will not cause problems with reading the chip or writing to the chip...as long as you insert all the wires into the programmer correctly you should be fine. Some SRAM chips have a pin specifically for a back-up battery, obviously this should not be connected to the EPROM programmer.

If the back-up battery is connected to the Vcc+ pin (main power pin) you could try it with this pin not connected to the eprom programmer, but I would be willing to bet that it would not matter if you did connect it. I would try it connected to the EPROM programmer first because the back-up battery probably cannot supply enough voltage for the SRAM to operate, only enough for it to retain data. That is why the chip probably requires +5v for operation but most back-up batteries are somewhere wround +3.7v

cheers,
-DT

Click to expand...

Still though VCC and Ground are shared by all IC on the board. So if you hook up the Vcc of the programmer to the ram IC, you will be powering all the IC on the board so you would have to isolate the ram by pulling up the VCC pin on both chips. And hopefully the backup battery isn't attached to the VCC pin or you kill the memory.

Jesus christ that all seems mad, I think I will try Takuma's ways first

GnarlyDan said:

I read/heard this somewhere too. It said it should work but obviously you need to be wary of the VOLTS and be very careful.

Click to expand...

Good point.

LoneWolf, no matter what route you choose, be careful when touching parts of the NGCD's main pcb when the unit is on, make sure you use isolated pliers when changing the battery and check the current/voltage first with a multi-meter. Normally, there shouldn't be dangerous voltages in there, but it's best to keep things safe for both your console and yourself.

I mean, the NGCD fan community is very small already, no need to make it even smaller... !

yeah I know but I really want 2 preserve these saves, first I GOT 2 FIND THE NEO CD

mainman said:

Your ignorant comment wasn't only warranted but also not helpful either in case you didn't notice you dum fuck, so I will respond in kind. At least some of my comments were related somewhat to the topic, yours however were related to your obvious lack of social skills which are a result of you having no life so you lash out at others. If you want to be a shut in asshole take it to the war room. If you would have read my post assuming you can read since you seem to use short hand alot to cover your illiteracy you would have seen I did answer his question. He asked how can I charge the battery and I answered it charges while the machine is on, so charge it for 4 hours a week. So before you poke fun at someone elses solution you should come up with one of your own first you little mark ass bitch.

Click to expand...

Wow, Dick broke off in your ass that far up?
You could have said that shit with out the "Neo Cd=Bad", "Its the worst system ever in the post 32 bit era." , & "What is your friend still doing with a neo cd still in use.".
None of that had anything to do with helping him.
Ok so you answered his question in A round about way,
I'm sorry I read the first 2 lines of your post & gave A response.
But any way...FOAD plz.
Thx.

Takumaji said:

I mean, the NGCD fan community is very small already, no need to make it even smaller... !

Click to expand...

Haha

mainman said:

Still though VCC and Ground are shared by all IC on the board. So if you hook up the Vcc of the programmer to the ram IC, you will be powering all the IC on the board so you would have to isolate the ram by pulling up the VCC pin on both chips. And hopefully the backup battery isn't attached to the VCC pin or you kill the memory.

Click to expand...

It might only matter if you short something somewhere else on the board or if some chip in there is trying to write to the SRAM. If you are that worried about it you could easily disconnect the cd-rom drive so that no game could possibly load, since the save game ram will only be accessed at a time when games are saved the chip should be unused (even if the whole system is powered up).

You could probably even do this with the system powered up, because the way the back-up SRAM works it is given supply voltage all the time when on, but is not accessed unless a save is being read or written. In fact you may have to do it this way, because if you do supply +5v from the programmer i'm sure that there will not be enough current coming from the programmer to supply every chip on an NGCD.

cheers,
-DT

alright who here is an expert and can do this operation, I will pay for shipping and shit as I prefer an expert 2 do this ?

As soon as I find my neo CD and the saves r still there

dogtoy said:

You could probably even do this with the system powered up, because the way the back-up SRAM works it is given supply voltage all the time when on, but is not accessed unless a save is being read or written.

Click to expand...

Very touching operation indeed my friend

dogtoy said:

In fact you may have to do it this way, because if you do supply +5v from the programmer i'm sure that there will not be enough current coming from the programmer to supply every chip on an NGCD.

cheers,
-DT

Click to expand...

Thats the point I was trying to make.

The Legendary LoneWolf said:

alright who here is an expert and can do this operation, I will pay for shipping and shit as I prefer an expert 2 do this ?

As soon as I find my neo CD and the saves r still there

Click to expand...

I don't think anyone a expert on this particular problem, dogtoy theory is a real good one but I don't think he has done it before and neither have I. I think your best option is to just power on the unit every week for 4 plus hours to let it charge. Change the existing battery in the unit and give it a fresh one but remember to use a helper battery so you wont lose your saves.