METAL GEAR Possible Scandal? (*Vote your thoughts)

Mercenary X99 said:

This was posted over @ the SEGA boards I'm helping Vanguard and I don't see a Topic/Thread on it, so here it is folks...

METAL GEAR SOLID 3: SUBSTANCE with the two MSX versions never released in the USA! *Finally we get to have a legit non emulated Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake plus all the goodies in MGS 3. *Now I can love Kojima again.



MERCENARY X99

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The above was my original post when I started THIS THREAD but as far as having the original MSX games, and more to the point MG 2: SOLID SNAKE I have to wonder now what version we are getting. I had no idea that the true sequel had also been ported as a Japan Only "Mobile Phone" game and Konami re-tweaked the look of the characters and what not. Originally the sequel had characters that looked somewhat like Hollywood movie stars, later it got changed to have a more bland/fade away Metal Gear Solid look to it. See below for reference...


MSX 2 Version: *Holly White kind of looks like Sharon Stone
a little bit, and Snake (in a different shot) looks a bit like Mel Gibson
Colonel Campbell looks like Richard Crenna, etc. I'm sure there might
be royalties paid, but still... this is the game the way it is made and
people should be able to play it "perfect" not edited IMO.


JPN Mobile Phone Version:
*Seems the characters names have changed a bit,
Holly White is still Holly White, but now she looks more
like an Albino "Meryl" and I dunno, just generic. and she
even looks a little like Chris Jenner from "Ghost Babel"

>>>
Chris Jenner ^ = MG "Ghost Babel"

WHICH VERSION DO YOU THINK WE ARE GETTING???

I'm praying that we get the un-molested MSX version as it's reported as being and not the Mobile Phone version mistakenly stated as meing the MSX one. It's a bitch to play the emulated version of Solid Snake, (heck I had to beat it in one sitting for 12 hours straight because in 2000 I couldn't figure out how to save without what the computer read as needing a disk in the emu) thus it be nice to think Kojima & Konmai are offering the original work, despite the fact it's characters look like Hollywood Stars. Otherwise we get more mind fucks with name changes like Dr. Petrovich Madnar who was even in the NES version, suddenly becoming "Drago" ??? and a few others too. I'm looking forward to seeing George Kesslar look like Dolph Lundgren with the head wrap in the movie Red Scorpion, not some generic looking re-tweak.

Thus I'm wondering what some of you think.

#1> Will Konami have the decency to release the game as reported and keep it "MSX Perfect" within the MGS 3 Subsistence game, or will they try to duck possible heat and having to possibly pay royalty fees for real ppl's likenesses (Petrovich does look like Albert Einstein in #2)?

#2> Which version from the above examples appeal to you more? *I might very well be alone on this (I doubt it) since I have experience with the MSX Emulated version, but I'm curious as to whom would like to see what and why? I'm going to write Konami and ask them straight up because this is bothering me, but for now who would like to see the game or do you care which version?

Either way will be a blast to play, but it'll be a subtle slap in the face of the die-hard fans of the series if they port the mobile phone version and pass it off as the original.

There's zero doubt in my mind that we'll be getting the tweaked version. They wouldn't have made a tweaked version otherwise. It's not like a mobile phone couldn't handle MSX graphics (pretty sure, anyway...). Avoiding possible lawsuits and bringing the characters more in line visually with the current games...this will be the version they give us.

Of course I'd rather have the original, but I'll play and enjoy whichever version I can get. Just as long as they don't edit anything for the US release from what the Japanese consumers get.

Yeah, the new portraits look very generic and boring. Keep your fingers crossed, but don't get your hopes up.

I want the original MSX version no if ands or buts.

Still i won't be suprise if, Konami becomes a..... cheap ass and use the "mobile phone" version insted

I'll agree with SouthtownKid that we'll be getting the cell phone version, but I'm crossing my fingers and hoping we get the original MSX version.

Play em in an MSX emu, the game is good good.

http://www.msxnet.org/gtinter/mgear2us.htm

SouthtownKid said:

There's zero doubt in my mind that we'll be getting the tweaked version. They wouldn't have made a tweaked version otherwise. It's not like a mobile phone couldn't handle MSX graphics (pretty sure, anyway...). Avoiding possible lawsuits and bringing the characters more in line visually with the current games...this will be the version they give us.

Of course I'd rather have the original, but I'll play and enjoy whichever version I can get. Just as long as they don't edit anything for the US release from what the Japanese consumers get.

Yeah, the new portraits look very generic and boring. Keep your fingers crossed, but don't get your hopes up.

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Yes this is what I'm worried about.

Thus I sure hope they don't keep saying it's the MSX releases because it won't be. It'll be a mobile phone version of the original MSX sequel, which does not equate it as being a perfect port. I don't want to make too many waves with Konami though (they don't like me too much due to the whole Policenaughts fiasco of '97, along with several snail mail and email to them about Arcade ports of Contra & Super Contra, and up until now about why they'd never released the MSX games) because I'd rather have even the mobile phone version than nothing at all. But to me it's too much of a chore to have to play the emu version these days, and it be nice to have ease of play with the original look. The Solid look works well for the later games, and worked rather well with "Ghost Babel", but the original two were a bit more rooted in a quasi-realistic look about them and they should just be re-released that way.

Of course I'm thinking too that we will see the Mobile Phone version and be stated as being the MSX version, which is bogus marketing and down right lame. I'm not going to hold my breath, but I am praying they keep it real.

If the biggest change is updating the portraits to look more like the Solid series of artwork, then I have zero problems with it. It only helps to make the games more connected.

I don't give a fuck either way, I just want to play the game finally

but I know it's going to be the cell phone ver

According to a Kojima interview in PSM this month, we are indeed getting the tweaked version with redone portraits. He indicated that that was the only change though.

Frankly, it doesn't bother me in the least. I've never played it anyway, so I won't notice. I was kind of looking forward to seeing Sean "Big Boss" Connery, but no big deal.

Buro Destruct said:

If the biggest change is updating the portraits to look more like the Solid series of artwork, then I have zero problems with it. It only helps to make the games more connected.

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I'm with you on this one. I don't want my MG cast looking like Hollywood stars - - that pulls me out of the game a bit. Make the series flow as smoothly as possible, I say, even if that means redoing those hideous portraits.

genjiglove said:

According to a Kojima interview in PSM this month, we are indeed getting the tweaked version with redone portraits. He indicated that that was the only change though.

Frankly, it doesn't bother me in the least. I've never played it anyway, so I won't notice. I was kind of looking forward to seeing Sean "Big Boss" Connery, but no big deal.

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#1> Well I guess that's it then. It's now confirmed that we are indeed getting the tweaked Mobile Phone version.

#2> It's really not that big a deal, but at the same time it is. Sure it was kind of corny to begin with having them resemble Hollywood stars, and even historical figures... but it was one of the things (along with the depection of Solid Snake in the original version as well as NES port) that made the PRE-SOLID games stand out a bit. I like hearing David Hayter's voice as Snake and cannot picture anyone doing the voice, but I liked the Michael "Reese from Terminator" Biehn appearance that was used in the originals. While Snake looks like Mel Gibson in the opening, the Michael Biehn look is evident in the MSX version of "Solid Snake" again. To me this is like comparing the original pre 1997 SE versions of STAR WARS Eps 4-6 to what Lucas did with the series later on. Little things like Temura Morrisons voice becoming the voice of Boba Fett instead of the other guy etc. For those who never played the MSX Emulated English Hack I can see where the wound is not deep... but to me it's just a slap. He finally relents and puts out the original two games then fucks around with the names us die hards came to expect and love, all the while changing the look to suit the FEELING of the SOLID installments later down the line. I mean they could have altered the avatars and kept the 80's/early 90's look about it without making the characters look bland & generic. If Holly White looks like that, I'm afraid to see what George Kesslar and Frank Jeager/Grey Fox look like now. I'll no doubt be buying the MGS 3 Subsistence, but some of the fire within me has once again died a bit.

Thanks for confirming what I was worried about.

Now, I'm all about having the original artwork or whatever, but, (you guys are probably going to think I'm crazy...) I actually like the mobile phone version art better. The MSX2's character, Hollywood actor edits, if you will, look like crap to me.

We'll see which version we get. Who knows? Maybe they'll completely redo it.

Jon

It may just be me but Snake looks a lot like Michael Madsen in the MSX 2 Version

Jon said:

Now, I'm all about having the original artwork or whatever, but, (you guys are probably going to think I'm crazy...) I actually like the mobile phone version art better. The MSX2's character, Hollywood actor edits, if you will, look like crap to me.

We'll see which version we get. Who knows? Maybe they'll completely redo it.

Jon

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No I don't think your crazy at all. In fact the more I look at the new look the more it's growing on me, but I'm a completeist by nature, thus I always want the Original Version of something when all is said and done. In all honesty the first time I saw Big Boss as Sean Connery I was like WTF? My problem isn't so much with that they are redoing the avatars during the Codec Sequences, but rather they have a look about them that doesn't fit with the rest of the game itself. I'm greatful they didn't give Snake his MGS gray form fitting "Sneaking Suit" and kept him in the green army fatigues he wore in the MSX version, but when you look at the profile of Snake on the Mobile Phone version, it doesn't mesh with the look of the rest of the game at all. Holly White went from looking sort of like Sharon Stone (but not neccessarily her) but ultimately Quasi-Realistic, to a washed out albino generic archetype, that could be either Meryl or Chris Jenner. And look below...


MSX Version ^

Snake does indeed look like Mike Madsen, but also retains his Michael Biehn look as well, though he clearly looks like Mel Gibson in the second opening of the game that gives us the overview of the 1999 of the game's setting, (the first one was in 1995). Colonel Campbell does look a bit like Richard Crenna as Colonel Trautman from the Rambo Movies, but it works with the feeling of the pre- "Terrible Infants" clone schtig that Kojima would use later on.

Now compare the above to the one below...


Mobile Phone Version ^

Here Snake looks like his usual self, but it makes no sense. He's not going to look like that in 1999. He looks that way in 2005 in MGS after aging a bit more and being all fucked up from what takes place in Zanzibar Land and having the knowledge that he indeed killed his own father. Plus if you look closely you can tell that the suit he is wearing in the avatar is clearly just a green version of the "Sneaking Suit" from MGS whereas in the MSX avatar, it's evident that he's in 1980s BDUs and using a clearly evident headset versus the Bonephone System in MGS. Colonel Campbell now sort of resembles the Campbell we've come to know in MGS, MGS 2 and MG: Ghost Babel... BUT, he also looks like a freggin' corpse. He looks generically dead for all purposes.

Thus what irks me is that if Konami had to re-do the looks of characters so that they are not in resemblence to Hollywood actors, fine... but retain a similar look none the less. The pre-Solid games took place in a time when things weren't as technical. It be like having Jack/Naked Snake/BIG BOSS running around with Otakon's "Stealth Camo" in 1964. It would just be out of place, even for Kojima's highly tampered with past. And Snake in-game didn't look too much like any of the movie stars of the 80's and early 90's to even be changed at all. The Dolph Lundgren thing for George Kesslar is beyond blatant I know, but Snake was fine the way he was.

Having said all that... no the redone look isn't so bad, and clearly the game itself has not been tampered with (I sure hope they don't remix the music though, the MSX 2 music composed for the game is actually pretty bad ass). The preference here really comes down to whether or not the respective gamer ever played the english MSX emulated version and knows what was what, versus those who will be playing it for the first time. And of course completeist/purists, like those of us who will track down the Laser Disc DVDs of the pre-1997 SE versions of STAR WARS because to own the tampered with versions now out is Blasphemy. But there are two sides to ever story.