MGS III: Substance *With The MSX games!!!!

Mike Shagohod

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This was posted over @ the SEGA boards I'm helping Vanguard and I don't see a Topic/Thread on it, so here it is folks...

METAL GEAR SOLID 3: SUBSTANCE with the two MSX versions never released in the USA! *Finally we get to have a legit non emulated Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake plus all the goodies in MGS 3. *Now I can love Kojima again.

:multi_co: :multi_co: :buttrock:
 
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genjiglove

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Actually there is a topic concerning this, but I forgive you Merc because you are the man.
 

Tron

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Nice to see Konami finally gave in.

I guess either fans beg enough or Hideo gave it, as a suggestion :glee:
 

Mike Shagohod

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genjiglove said:
Actually there is a topic concerning this, but I forgive you Merc because you are the man.

Cool. I only looked over the first page, either I'm not reading right (and right now I'm a bit off thanks to a nasty inner ear infection on the left ear, falling in an out of sleep and can't really walk well) thus I didn't see it. Anyhow, as I'm guessing Southtown Kid stated in that thread, yes indeed I AM THRILLED. Now if someone could linky me the first thread that be cool.
 
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SouthtownKid

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It's just mentioned in the MGS4 thread, but don't feel bad for missing it; genjiglove actually mentioned it in the thread before I did, and I didn't even notice that...
 

Loopz

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Word, guess I'll wait to buy MGS3.

Very nice gesture for the hardcore fans from way back. Konami rocks.
 

genjiglove

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Mercenary X99 said:
Cool. I only looked over the first page, either I'm not reading right (and right now I'm a bit off thanks to a nasty inner ear infection on the left ear, falling in an out of sleep and can't really walk well) thus I didn't see it. Anyhow, as I'm guessing Southtown Kid stated in that thread, yes indeed I AM THRILLED. Now if someone could linky me the first thread that be cool.

MERCENARY X99

Technically the thread was about MGS4, so I guess it can't hurt to have a thread about Substinence. Either way, the more MG discussion the better IMO.

As you requested: http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119862
 

sQuareh4t3r

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Hey Merc, it's actually called Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence. Watch the E3 trailer, it has some cool little word play to drive that point home. (NEW SUBSTANCE IS SUBSISTENCE. SUBSISTENCE IS SURVIVAL. SUBSISTENCE IS SUBSTANCE.)

But do you know why I want this game? Online play. ONLINE. PLAY. Do you people comprehend this? Now all of those Splinter Cell fanboys can shut their goddamn mouths, because Kojima's gonna show them how shit gets done. WORD.

Oh yeah, and here's a little gift in parting: one of the features that European PS2 owners got that we didn't has been added to this release... BEHOLD, the PEEP DEMO THEATER!
fef4217b.jpg
 
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Mike Shagohod

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sQuareh4t3r said:
Hey Merc, it's actually called Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence. Watch the E3 trailer, it has some cool little word play to drive that point home.

WOW, I saw that on the MagicBox Website but figured they had made a Typo so I was trying to "Correct" it. Haven't seen any trailer with it from E3, all I've seen as of late is Electro Plankton and Nintendogs! :annoyed:

I'm all for ONLINE play if the play control stays in the "First Person" mode the whole time you're running around rather than just when you need to shoot, or if it is in 3rd Person I'd prefer it be from behind off centered like in games like Freedom Fighters because the main pain in the ass I have with all the 3-D versions of the Metal Gear franchise is that running foward into the screen crap. Sure moving the camera around a little bit helps, but it's still too distracting to me. I'd like to see where I'm going while I'm going there at all times. This and I wonder if Kojima will finally implement what was wrong with the first MGS 3: Snake Eater... and that's

>be allowed to strip the dead of their uniforms and/or weapons
>being able to procure weapons and keep them. *one of the earliest parts of MGS 3 SE pissed me off where you kill one of the Spetsnaz units coming after you in the area you meet EVA in, and the guy on the roof has an SVD Dragunov Sniper Rifle, but as you approach him, it goes into a cut scene where that guy gets killed, you see the rifle drop... but when the game cuts back in, there's no rifle! :mad:
 
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sQuareh4t3r

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Mercenary X99 said:
WOW, I saw that on the MagicBox Website but figured they had made a Typo so I was trying to "Correct" it. Haven't seen any trailer with it from E3, all I've seen as of late is Electro Plankton and Nintendogs! :annoyed:
GameSpot has an E3 trailer up that you can stream if you're not a member, and I'm sure that www.gametrailers.com has one up too.
Mercenary X99 said:
I'm all for ONLINE play if the play control stays in the "First Person" mode the whole time you're running around rather than just when you need to shoot, or if it is in 3rd Person I'd prefer it be from behind off centered like in games like Freedom Fighters because the main pain in the ass I have with all the 3-D versions of the Metal Gear franchise is that running foward into the screen crap. Sure moving the camera around a little bit helps, but it's still too distracting to me. I'd like to see where I'm going while I'm going there at all times.
Actually, that's another thing the trailer reveals: a "new" 3rd person viewpoint, one that follows behind and above Snake a few feet. I'm assuming that this was implemented simply for the online play, but you can use it in the normal single player game as well. It looks like it gives the game a more "run'n'gun" feel when it's used, since it would be nearly impossible to sneak around enemies when it's in use. Watch the trailer and all will make sense. :D
Mercenary X99 said:
This and I wonder if Kojima will finally implement what was wrong with the first MGS 3: Snake Eater... and that's

>be allowed to strip the dead of their uniforms and/or weapons
>being able to procure weapons and keep them. *one of the earliest parts of MGS 3 SE pissed me off where you kill one of the Spetsnaz units coming after you in the area you meet EVA in, and the guy on the roof has an SVD Dragunov Sniper Rifle, but as you approach him, it goes into a cut scene where that guy gets killed, you see the rifle drop... but when the game cuts back in, there's no rifle! :mad:

MERCENARY X99
Honestly, I don't have much of a quibble with things like that. While it would be cool, it would totally break the sequence of the game. I mean, having a sniper rifle near the very beginning of the operation would prove to be a bit unbalanced, I think. Kojima and his team are incredibly competent at laying out the flow of the game in such a way that you get everything you need as you need it, which keeps the pace smooth and the difficulty level pretty even.

Regardless, this update is gonna be awesome, and I'll be buying it so I can kick some ass online. Hopefully this one will come with the extra camouflage that the Europeans got as well, since the US players only got three new patterns to download. That kinda chapped my ass a bit, but oh well, this should more than make up for all of that. :D
 

Mike Shagohod

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genjiglove said:

AAAAAAAAAAAH HELL YEAH! *Dude I was screaming like a little girl watching that shit. I can't stop grinning from ear to ear. Kojima has finally made a version of the 3-D MGS games I know I'll never stop playing. Now he is not doing things in riddles, and I understand that I must go ONLINE once and for all. With that 3rd Person view for that type of action it's going to be fuckin' ON! *And the way that game is made to begin with will allow me to finally utilize my freggin specialties from the real world into the virtual world!

:buttrock:

I just hope it's not going to be an excuse for frag festing like in other capture the flag type deals and actually allows ppl do do their "Stealth" thing and show up out of nowhere and slit a throat, then dissapear only to surface again elsewhere. If that's the aim the game is taking, I can see battles going on literally for the better part of an entire evening, and any bitches not on my team (assuming it's not one big free-for-all) are going down! When is the release date for this bitch anyway?

sQuareh4t3r said:
Honestly, I don't have much of a quibble with things like that. While it would be cool, it would totally break the sequence of the game. I mean, having a sniper rifle near the very beginning of the operation would prove to be a bit unbalanced, I think. Kojima and his team are incredibly competent at laying out the flow of the game in such a way that you get everything you need as you need it, which keeps the pace smooth and the difficulty level pretty even.

I agree to a point, but at the same time it's one of the implementations of the game that to me just needs to be in there, and not just for MGS but for games like KILLZONE, Freedom Fighters etc. *Am I to believe that a soldier if and when possible would not kill an enemy, and then not try to procure something off of his victim? A radio, the assault rifle the guy's carrying, possibly the uniform to see if it fits if it's a Black Ops with "Infiltration" in it (which MGS 3 obviously is)... thus after killing the first sentry in the game, Snake could have broke the guy's neck, and dressed up as the hooded guy, then walk amongst them and right as they realize something is wrong, you CQC two of them, and open up with the AK-47 on the others rushing in to kill you, while you take cover behind a tree stump. ---Elements like this do have a major impact in a video game that's got 95% right with it, why not go that extra mile? Or in a game like KILLZONE, I kill a Helghast, but I can only pick up his assault rifle? You can clearly see Grenades on the guy's body! ---In Freedom Fighters when you're taking on the Soviets you're a "Guerrilla" Resistance fighter... the mainstay of your ammunition and everything is always taken from the enemy. Thus it's not enough that you just pick up a few grenades here or there, or a weapon or two. You need to be able to take uniforms, boots for the member who's moving slower because his shoes have holes in them. You need to be able to drag dead bodies into an area and set up an ambush and when the search party comes out to investigate, BOOM! the bodies had C-4 and a few frag grenades booby trapped on them. I await the day you can do shit like that in both MGS games and other war games, because despite our PC times, that shit is implemented in WAR.
 
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Amano Jacu

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If only hideo and konami would listen and released Policenauts in English... I'd buy the console it was coming for for sure. Snatcher would be nice too but I don't care because we are lucky enough to have the MegaCD version.
 

sQuareh4t3r

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Mercenary X99 said:
I agree to a point, but at the same time it's one of the implementations of the game that to me just needs to be in there, and not just for MGS but for games like KILLZONE, Freedom Fighters etc. *Am I to believe that a soldier if and when possible would not kill an enemy, and then not try to procure something off of his victim? A radio, the assault rifle the guy's carrying, possibly the uniform to see if it fits if it's a Black Ops with "Infiltration" in it (which MGS 3 obviously is)... thus after killing the first sentry in the game, Snake could have broke the guy's neck, and dressed up as the hooded guy, then walk amongst them and right as they realize something is wrong, you CQC two of them, and open up with the AK-47 on the others rushing in to kill you, while you take cover behind a tree stump. ---Elements like this do have a major impact in a video game that's got 95% right with it, why not go that extra mile? Or in a game like KILLZONE, I kill a Helghast, but I can only pick up his assault rifle? You can clearly see Grenades on the guy's body! ---In Freedom Fighters when you're taking on the Soviets you're a "Guerrilla" Resistance fighter... the mainstay of your ammunition and everything is always taken from the enemy. Thus it's not enough that you just pick up a few grenades here or there, or a weapon or two. You need to be able to take uniforms, boots for the member who's moving slower because his shoes have holes in them. You need to be able to drag dead bodies into an area and set up an ambush and when the search party comes out to investigate, BOOM! the bodies had C-4 and a few frag grenades booby trapped on them. I await the day you can do shit like that in both MGS games and other war games, because despite our PC times, that shit is implemented in WAR.

MERCENARY X99
Once again, it's a matter of yes, that works, and no, that doesn't work (at least for MGS). Like, doing those things, as fun as they might be, would totally ruin the point of the game. You're one man on a solo sneaking operation, sent in "naked" (hence Snake's codename during the Virtuous Mission), procuring only what you need to finish the mission. Honestly, all the crap that Snake gets is obviously still way too much; there are subtle ways of telling you that, like having your stamina/endurance run down even faster when you have more things equipped and on your person. This only reinforces that the point of the game is minimalism and survival, and while it would definitely be fun to walk among the soldiers in their own gear, it's almost a self-defeating purpose: the alarm will be sounded, and the enemies in MGS usually always win out with their superior numbers. (In fact, MGS3 is the first game where you really feel like you're not at a total loss if you're spotted, simply because the CQC was so incredibly powerful and easy to use.)

Snake's duty is to carry out his mission and do so without being seen and with a minimal loss of life, so anything that would possibly go against that would be superfluous, even where game design is concerned. Don't get me wrong, Merc, I see your point and I'm not even saying I disagree with it, but it raises the question of how closely does an already life-like game need to be pushed? Does it need to mirror reality in every possible way, and is such an end even possible?

I like having these sort of conversations with you, Merc, because it feels like I'm not wasting my time and posting drivel on here to up my post count (which, I admit, I'm guilty of doing quite frequently). I think with all of these ideas, you need to gather a crack team of coders and developers and put together a game that would blow everyone's mind; it would be like those commercials for hi-def television, where the dude's not sure if he's watching reality or TV (but in this case, it would be playing a game).

Regardless, I think we can agree that MGS3:S is going to be awesome in spite of all of its "shortcomings." :D
 

sQuareh4t3r

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POOPERSCOOPER said:
They said they could barely fit the original game on a Dvd...
Sorry for the double post, but what the fuck does this have to do with anything? It's not like they are adding whole new segments that require tons more disc space for voice acting and FMV and whatnot. Everything is being built off of pre-existing code: the bosses are all there, so it's not much trouble to make a mode where you fight them all back-to-back; all of the cutscenes are already there, so it doesn't take much more to simply add an option to let you watch them when you want; the character models are already there, so what difficulty is it to build a small online mode around them?

This game isn't being totally overhauled like you're assuming. This is simply an update for a game that's pretty much complete already, so no massive amounts of extra storage are going to be needed. Capische?
 

shirt

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If this came out next week it wouldn't be soon enough...
 

Mike Shagohod

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sQuareh4t3r said:
I like having these sort of conversations with you, Merc, because it feels like I'm not wasting my time and posting drivel on here to up my post count (which, I admit, I'm guilty of doing quite frequently). I think with all of these ideas, you need to gather a crack team of coders and developers and put together a game that would blow everyone's mind; it would be like those commercials for hi-def television, where the dude's not sure if he's watching reality or TV (but in this case, it would be playing a game).
Regardless, I think we can agree that MGS3:S is going to be awesome in spite of all of its "shortcomings." :D

Yeah I enjoy our conversations to, and yes MGS 3 "S" is going to be the bomb either way, and has gotten me to refind the fire that I thought had died out in me for the franchise. ---Though I simply cannot stand Metal Gear ACID at all. It looks great, but it's basically the game "Ghost Babel" from the Gameboy Color regurgitated with Chris Jenner's name being changed, but with much the same mission, and the whole play style having become some odd MAGIC THE GATHERING style card schism. *WHY I'll never know? :annoyed:

Anyhow on the idea of me ever making a game, that's something I've tried to do numerous times with a few here or there, but without the $MILLIONS needed, the reality usually seeps in quickly during development time that putting in those 12 to 18 hour days every 4 days still gets in the way of real life, and trying to juggle a job, appease the wives (or take care of kids) AND find the time to want to program is hard. I honestly can't program shit other than HTML and the now defunct VRML coding processes. What I do is Visual Concept Design and work with programmers, sound ppl etcetera every step of the way during a production... as generally I am the one who wrote the initial script/design document, and we all collaborate to see where branching paths and options go and what not. It's basically what Shigeru Miyamoto was at the time NCL hired him and he did Donkey Kong and the first SMB game... though no official company is ever interested in a VCD unless they themselves know at least C++, and my brain doesn't work that way... I'm a writer/director working usually with a stable of differing artists whom I know. I have to be there to make a change right there on the spot, or rewrite things when a programmer says: "Nope, with what we've got to work with Mike... it's not happening. Go back and rewrite it based on what I'm about to show you. At best this is what we can do."

...which kinda sucks and all. I've got all kinds of design documents lying around in an air tight gun locker, but I refuse to ever show them outside of a certain circle of people because I'm not running into the crap that DXMachina is going through in his thread about that Film Buff Douche Bag stealing his ideas. The only difference is that on two of the projects I actually self copyrighted the works, but I'm paranoid about even a character design getting out that someone who does work in the industry would see with the money, then basically make money off something I envisioned. This is the reason I stopped talking in great detail about my "YAKUZA" game. On one hand I wouldn't mind if someone did something "Like" my idea, but I certainly don't want all my ideas taken.

Having said all that, my dream combat game generically titled SNIPER would actually implement all of what I was discussing above, and the key of the game is to use your stealth either solo- or in co-operation with a spotter and you're sent on various missions hired out by the military to take out select targets in some levels... and in others your an SDM (Squad Designated Marksmen) fighting within a platoon in the middle of an even bigger operation or War all around you. In other levels you're conducting a Target Aquistion for B-52s which are leveling a city nearby, and can feel the Earth shaking from the distant bombardment, while the constant crackle of Kalishnikova fire is going off all around you, and you must stay invisible. In another you might be on the run from an employer who double crossed you, and all this while taking into account "Counter Sniping" with enemy snipers looking for you. Urban, Jungle, Desert Terrain you name it. In the game, if you can think it... chances are I already did and it was programmed into the game. Hell I'd let a player extract information from a local hot woman and before she can kill you, you've got to get the weapon from her. I'd let someone capture and torture someone if that's what they wanted to do... but the longer you did that you might actually miss your target, then have to deal with Sweeper Teams sent in to kill you. But I've probably said more than I should have already.
 
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jaydubnb

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There are two things I want from Kojima:

1.Snake Eater in any form for the Xbox. It would be fucking choice to received the new version, but I'll take what I can get. I'm refusing to buy a PS2 just for that one game....for now.

2.I want to see a remake/revision of the original Metal Gear after the revelations in the abovementioned Snake Eater.

But back to the topic...

To be honest, I've never thought of taking a Metal Gear game online, but now that I think about it, it would be awesome especially if you can design your own character similar to how they do in those modern wrasslin games. You know, pick your body size, armor, weaponry, code name, etc ...personalizing the game would be awesome.
 

galfordo

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As a buyer of the original MGS 3, I can't help but feel like I'm being taken for a ride by Sony and/or Konami.

Why can't these people show a little foresight and release the original game with the extra features? This shit is getting just like the DVD industry with their "super-uber omfg buttrock limited" editions. :oh_no:
 

sQuareh4t3r

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jaydubnb said:
To be honest, I've never thought of taking a Metal Gear game online, but now that I think about it, it would be awesome especially if you can design your own character similar to how they do in those modern wrasslin games. You know, pick your body size, armor, weaponry, code name, etc ...personalizing the game would be awesome.
Well, not to let you down, but it looks like you get tossed on one of two teams (each wearing identical garb), and just go at it. Or, alternately, you play as Snake against five other players controlling guards out to get him. Unfortunately, customization doesn't seem to be one of the key features of the online play that has been revealed thus far, but there's still a bit of time before release, so maybe that will change.
galfordo said:
As a buyer of the original MGS 3, I can't help but feel like I'm being taken for a ride by Sony and/or Konami.

Why can't these people show a little foresight and release the original game with the extra features? This shit is getting just like the DVD industry with their "super-uber omfg buttrock limited" editions. :oh_no:
Meh. Remember that little game called Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance? We all knew this was going to happen, it was just a matter of "when" and not "if". Quite frankly, this is a series of games that I know will never disappoint me, so I don't feel bad for shelling out cash for an "identical" game that I bought six months or so earlier. If I didn't want the online play so badly, I would just buy the PAL release of Snake Eater, because it's basically the same thing (sans the new third person viewpoint and the online play).
 

POOPERSCOOPER

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sQuareh4t3r said:
Sorry for the double post, but what the fuck does this have to do with anything? It's not like they are adding whole new segments that require tons more disc space for voice acting and FMV and whatnot. Everything is being built off of pre-existing code: the bosses are all there, so it's not much trouble to make a mode where you fight them all back-to-back; all of the cutscenes are already there, so it doesn't take much more to simply add an option to let you watch them when you want; the character models are already there, so what difficulty is it to build a small online mode around them?

This game isn't being totally overhauled like you're assuming. This is simply an update for a game that's pretty much complete already, so no massive amounts of extra storage are going to be needed. Capische?

I'm not saying OMG THEY REBUILD GAME FOR BETTAR GRAPHICS. They had to cut out some cutscenes from teh game that were using "pre-existing code" because they didn't have enough space. Now they want to add online mode and shit so You can fucking suck my cawk mang. OMG HOW HARD IS IT TO ADD SUBSTANCE TO A GAME LOL? I'm pretty sure an 8 player online battle only requires a few tweaks to the "pre-existing code" and the the game disc will create the rest.
 

roker

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Mercenary X99 said:
Yeah I enjoy our conversations to, and yes MGS 3 "S" is going to be the bomb either way, and has gotten me to refind the fire that I thought had died out in me for the franchise. ---Though I simply cannot stand Metal Gear ACID at all. It looks great, but it's basically the game "Ghost Babel" from the Gameboy Color regurgitated with Chris Jenner's name being changed, but with much the same mission, and the whole play style having become some odd MAGIC THE GATHERING style card schism. *WHY I'll never know? :annoyed:

Anyhow on the idea of me ever making a game, that's something I've tried to do numerous times with a few here or there, but without the $MILLIONS needed, the reality usually seeps in quickly during development time that putting in those 12 to 18 hour days every 4 days still gets in the way of real life, and trying to juggle a job, appease the wives (or take care of kids) AND find the time to want to program is hard. I honestly can't program shit other than HTML and the now defunct VRML coding processes. What I do is Visual Concept Design and work with programmers, sound ppl etcetera every step of the way during a production... as generally I am the one who wrote the initial script/design document, and we all collaborate to see where branching paths and options go and what not. It's basically what Shigeru Miyamoto was at the time NCL hired him and he did Donkey Kong and the first SMB game... though no official company is ever interested in a VCD unless they themselves know at least C++, and my brain doesn't work that way... I'm a writer/director working usually with a stable of differing artists whom I know. I have to be there to make a change right there on the spot, or rewrite things when a programmer says: "Nope, with what we've got to work with Mike... it's not happening. Go back and rewrite it based on what I'm about to show you. At best this is what we can do."

...which kinda sucks and all. I've got all kinds of design documents lying around in an air tight gun locker, but I refuse to ever show them outside of a certain circle of people because I'm not running into the crap that DXMachina is going through in his thread about that Film Buff Douche Bag stealing his ideas. The only difference is that on two of the projects I actually self copyrighted the works, but I'm paranoid about even a character design getting out that someone who does work in the industry would see with the money, then basically make money off something I envisioned. This is the reason I stopped talking in great detail about my "YAKUZA" game. On one hand I wouldn't mind if someone did something "Like" my idea, but I certainly don't want all my ideas taken.

Having said all that, my dream combat game generically titled SNIPER would actually implement all of what I was discussing above, and the key of the game is to use your stealth either solo- or in co-operation with a spotter and you're sent on various missions hired out by the military to take out select targets in some levels... and in others your an SDM (Squad Designated Marksmen) fighting within a platoon in the middle of an even bigger operation or War all around you. In other levels you're conducting a Target Aquistion for B-52s which are leveling a city nearby, and can feel the Earth shaking from the distant bombardment, while the constant crackle of Kalishnikova fire is going off all around you, and you must stay invisible. In another you might be on the run from an employer who double crossed you, and all this while taking into account "Counter Sniping" with enemy snipers looking for you. Urban, Jungle, Desert Terrain you name it. In the game, if you can think it... chances are I already did and it was programmed into the game. Hell I'd let a player extract information from a local hot woman and before she can kill you, you've got to get the weapon from her. I'd let someone capture and torture someone if that's what they wanted to do... but the longer you did that you might actually miss your target, then have to deal with Sweeper Teams sent in to kill you. But I've probably said more than I should have already.

MERCENARY X99

fuck this

I'm going to drink a red bull and come back with a longer post

so long, that when I'm done, you'll know that I took down God (merc) himself!
 
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