Will SNK on PS2 satisfy my Neo Geo fix?

[sketch]

Personally, I don't like the idea of playing ROMS I don't own. I'm not fanatical about it. I could see getting an Xbox modded as a reference system (i.e. to test drive stuff, or play games casually), but if I play something a lot or seriously like it, I'd rather own it. It's not strictly a moral issue, either. I just like owning the actual game (I still like buying CDs and have yet to buy an MP3 online, for example). I like a physical medium with my intellectual property.

I'm definitely against pirating, but I can see both sides of an argument for games that are essentially "dead". SNK/Playmore makes money off of compilations, but most games will never make it to a compilation or any other format, so ROMs for these kinds of dead systems is certainly defensible to a point.

 

[arcadematt]

I have a modded xbox and use mameox and have roughly 2000 arcade games and 95% of the neo games. I use a 2 player x-arcade joystick and Its a pretty good way of playing.

But I dont play games that way very often. As a collector playing Arcade games I believe should be played on a cab or supergun. I collect MVS carts and build superguns until I have room for a cab. Compilation Discs for current consoles like PS2 and xbox 360 dont appeal to me at all wouldnt touch them but If thats the only way to access SNK's great games then Im all for people playing that way. Its a good way for new/younger gamers to play great games not the rubbish that plagues the video games Industry today.

 

[Takumaji]

Emulation and roms are a two-edged sword for me. I appreciate the conservation aspect but hate the apathy they dragged into the vg world. Finding and playing games and the games themselves used to be special, something you actually had to spend time and money on, now things feel shallow and even boring to most people (namely the rom hoarders) because all games they want are just a mouse-click away and get played on an all-in-one system, they're nothing more than anonymous files on a giant harddisk that can be moved, tweaked and deleted at will.

Mind you, I don't want to bash on roms and rom gamers too hard because that stuff has its good sides too, I just wish people would be a little more respectful and less apathetic when it comes to original creations and intellectual property.

 

[Neo Alec]

I can relate to what's being said here. Because in my experience so far with people who play downloaded games, or have a pre-loaded XBox with tons of arcade games, they just don't appreciate the games as much. It's overwhelming, and there's a certain apathy that comes with having nearly every conceivable classic arcade game illegally available at your fingertips. I spent a lot of work tracking down boards for the multiplayer Konami games I value, like Violent Storm, for example, while someone with the game buried on their XBox likely either has no appreciation for it or has never even booted it to try it out. I know I'm being cynical and just denying to myself the reality of what's possible in this day and age, but it's disheartening to think of the work I put into my collection, while the games are so easily had for free and disregarded by others. Maybe it's just because the type of person who bothers to track down the original board is the kind of person who better appreciates the game to begin with, but at any rate, the mentaility of someone who uses emulators vs. a collector is a whole different perspective. In the end, if you're a collector who goes out of their way to find the originals, that should be a reward unto itself -- there should be a certain value in that alone -- or perhaps you're wasting your money. It's about the perceived value, and I think even most emulator people in the back of their minds have some appreciation for an original game too.

 

[ilazul]

I agree with what's being said here, but I just wanted to add a thought. If it wasn't for roms and mame, I wouldn't be here. It wasn't until my best friend fired up mame on my computer way back in highschool, I would have never given neo geo collecting a second of my time.

The games were so rare, and arcades were sparse.. I had never even heard of twinkle star sprites or magical drop III. Now I have almost 30 complete kits, 4 machines, and a huge grocery list of kits I want.

There's no "value" (and I'm not talking about money) to a bunch of files on a hard disk, so roms never really got on my nerves. I'm not super against roms, sometimes if the company refuses to rerelease or port a game it's the only way to try it out. But I'm in the camp that you can't help but look a little down on them.

 

[Neo Alec]

Personally, I'm not sure if I can comprehend that old argument: "If not for emulation, I wouldn't even know about Neo Geo." All you had to do was pick up a game magazine in the 90's and you knew about the system. That's how most people were exposed to it -- if you couldn't afford one, it was something to aspire to and revere. If there weren't reviews or previews of new games, there were retailers like Chips & Bits that listed Neo Geo along with CD-I and 3DO prices in their magazine ads each month. Kids who would have never even considered the Neo would see the price guide, look at the high prices for Neo stuff, and at least wonder about it. You didn't even have to buy game mags either, I had some subscriptions here and there, but I also used to read them in stores as a kid while my mom was shopping.

I'm not sure how much I buy that argument. Emulation may be exposing a new generation of gamers to the Neo, but if you were a gamer in the 90's, you should have known about the Neo.

 

[evil wasabi]

I can relate to what's being said here. Because in my experience so far with people who play downloaded games, or have a pre-loaded XBox with tons of arcade games, they just don't appreciate the games as much. It's overwhelming, and there's a certain apathy that comes with having nearly every conceivable classic arcade game illegally available at your fingertips. I spent a lot of work tracking down boards for the multiplayer Konami games I value, like Violent Storm, for example, while someone with the game buried on their XBox likely either has no appreciation for it or has never even booted it to try it out. I know I'm being cynical and just denying to myself the reality of what's possible in this day and age, but it's disheartening to think of the work I put into my collection, while the games are so easily had for free and disregarded by others. Maybe it's just because the type of person who bothers to track down the original board is the kind of person who better appreciates the game to begin with, but at any rate, the mentaility of someone who uses emulators vs. a collector is a whole different perspective. In the end, if you're a collector who goes out of their way to find the originals, that should be a reward unto itself -- there should be a certain value in that alone -- or perhaps you're wasting your money. It's about the perceived value, and I think even most emulator people in the back of their minds have some appreciation for an original game too.

in 10 to 15 years all your original carts will start breaking down. It's the nature of plastic. Until then, enjoy the novelty of your antiques.

 

[Neo Alec]

in 10 to 15 years all your original carts will start breaking down. It's the nature of plastic. Until then, enjoy the novelty of your antiques.

"lol" that's what the emulation camp on the Net was telling me in 1998. My SMS and NES stuff is still as good as the day it was released (lots of it was second hand and not treated as well as I would have), and Neo games that are already 17 years old still play more or less as reliably as a game released 5 years ago. We'll see, we'll see... If one of my systems or games breaks down, I'm still probably going to be able to go on ebay and replace them without too much trouble for a long time to come. For now though, I think the "your stuff is going to break" argument is just a red herring. How many gamers will even care that much about their stuff breaking down 15 years from now also remains to be seen.

I already own arcade boards with lots of weird random components hanging off of them, but as long as they work for now, that's really all I care about. We'll worry about the future when it happens.

 

[ilazul]

Personally, I'm not sure if I can comprehend that old argument: "If not for emulation, I wouldn't even know about Neo Geo." All you had to do was pick up a game magazine in the 90's and you knew about the system. That's how most people were exposed to it -- if you couldn't afford one, it was something to aspire to and revere. If there weren't reviews or previews of new games, there were retailers like Chips & Bits that listed Neo Geo along with CD-I and 3DO prices in their magazine ads each month. Kids who would have never even considered the Neo would see the price guide, look at the high prices for Neo stuff, and at least wonder about it. You didn't even have to buy game mags either, I had some subscriptions here and there, but I also used to read them in stores as a kid while my mom was shopping.

I'm not sure how much I buy that argument. Emulation may be exposing a new generation of gamers to the Neo, but if you were a gamer in the 90's, you should have known about the Neo.

I'm not defending emulation, like I said... I can't help but look down on it.

I knew about the Neo, but I never experienced it. There were no stores that had a neo geo (except one import store that was selling the system and a copy of fatal fury for a thousand bucks). The most neo gaming I got was a local pizza shop that had puzzle bobble and samurai shodown II. I got a few ports here and there (genesis sam sho, snes fatal fury) so it seemed pointless to get the million dollar machine when I could just play the ports.

It wasn't until mame was released I was able to play the later sam sho's (3 in particular), the older kof's, and metal slugs. Hell, I wasn't even a big snk fan at the time. So while emulation exposed me to the neo, I still don't support it and always tell people to get the real thing.

Hell I don't even like the shitty ps2 collections that companies come out with, fuck load times and glitches.

 

[evil wasabi]

"lol" that's what the emulation camp on the Net was telling me in 1998. My SMS and NES stuff is still as good as the day it was released (lots of it was second hand and not treated as well as I would have), and Neo games that are already 17 years old still play more or less as reliably as a game released 5 years ago. We'll see, we'll see... If one of my systems or games breaks down, I'm still probably going to be able to go on ebay and replace them without too much trouble for a long time to come. For now though, I think the "your stuff is going to break" argument is just a red herring. How many gamers will even care that much about their stuff breaking down 15 years from now also remains to be seen.

I already own arcade boards with lots of weird random components hanging off of them, but as long as they work for now, that's really all I care about. We'll worry about the future when it happens.

Your problem with people having games for free that you hunted down is as if you want those toys to be a status symbol for you. None of us care what you have. Even if we didn't have roms, no one would care.

I play the roms and I appreciate the games a lot. A lot of people here play the roms and don't own the games, but can wipe their ass on your face in any KoF, Shodown, or Street Fighter.

And when it comes to collectors, there's always some guy in Italy or Europe who has a more pristine collection than you.

There's no status in gaming. People will find a way to enjoy it, with or without your mentality.

 

[Loopz]

Personally, I'm not sure if I can comprehend that old argument: "If not for emulation, I wouldn't even know about Neo Geo." All you had to do was pick up a game magazine in the 90's and you knew about the system. That's how most people were exposed to it -- if you couldn't afford one, it was something to aspire to and revere. If there weren't reviews or previews of new games, there were retailers like Chips & Bits that listed Neo Geo along with CD-I and 3DO prices in their magazine ads each month. Kids who would have never even considered the Neo would see the price guide, look at the high prices for Neo stuff, and at least wonder about it. You didn't even have to buy game mags either, I had some subscriptions here and there, but I also used to read them in stores as a kid while my mom was shopping.

I'm not sure how much I buy that argument. Emulation may be exposing a new generation of gamers to the Neo, but if you were a gamer in the 90's, you should have known about the Neo.

It's the genius of the games themselves that matters.

Who is more of a gamer now...some guy with all the KoF carts in ziplock baggies who hasn't touched a single one in three years, or the emukid who could beat that collector's ass like a drum with a fucking keyboard because he actually KNOWS the game in question?

I dunno man. I don't think those games do anyone any good on a shelf for eternity.
I suppose I take the middle road, as I mostly play PS2 ports with a Hori stick and it feels good to me. I had a real homecart system and MVS setup several times over, but all I care about now is being able to play those games and enjoy them. The medium on which the game resides just doesn't friggin' matter to me anymore. If you relish that sort of thing, dig it, but don't expect to win any points from anyone for it or try to consider yourself better because of it.

Besides, technically, buying actual Neo stuff NOW doesn't support SNK-P in the least.
Buying the ports actually does. That said, I still plan on building a shuttle PC later on in the fall and just having it all right under the telly.

 

[norton9478]

Here is what I learned for Neo-Alec:

You don't need the roms to get a good feel of how great NeoGeo are...
All you need is to go back and look at gaming magazines from the early/mid 90's!

 

[SouthtownKid]

I play Neo mostly as a combination of MVS on a cab and emulated on PSP. I love both.

There is something inherently fun about sitting down at a candy cab like the ones I first experienced Fatal Fury Special on. I even got the exact model cab -- I probably wouldn't have been interested otherwise. Besides the nostalgia of playing the old Neo games, there is also for me a great deal of nostalgia involved in playing on that cab.

But otherwise, nostalgia aside, I love the hell out of playing the games on PSP.

I'm also fine with the PS2 ports for post-Neo stuff like XI. Why not?

 

[ilazul]

There is something inherently fun about sitting down at a candy cab like the ones I first experienced Fatal Fury Special on. I even got the exact model cab -- I probably wouldn't have been interested otherwise. Besides the nostalgia of playing the old Neo games, there is also for me a great deal of nostalgia involved in playing on that cab.
QUOTE]

That's exactly how I am, it's not some moral issue.. just that the cabs have history. I also bought the cab that made me love the neo, an american six slot.

 

[Neo Alec]

I do not buy games for status. I don't care what other people think. I do not buy games to show off, since I consider it more nerdy than prestigious. Buying real games for me is simply a personal preference, which is what I was trying to say at the end of my last post. It's also a habit -- my brothers and I have been piling old game stuff in our parents' basement since we were kids (we're all grown and moved out now). In recent years we've added an MSX and games, old Japanese computers like PC-98 and X68000 for no particular reason, PC-FX and CD-I have always been around, we completed a Neo MVS collection, even shitty Playdia, and between us we still hit most of the major releases for the new consoles.

For us gaming is more a culture between family, one that we've grown up with, so it's a habit. We know it's basically a waste of money. We still collect stuff even though it can be emulated because we're used to it. It's like we're old gamer fogies in a way. It was always about real games growing up, and it still is -- out of habit more than anything else. We wouldn't have it any other way. So perhaps I am an exception, but I know there are others besides myself who still value tangible games and hardware.

 

[evil wasabi]

I do not buy games for status. I don't care what other people think.

Actually, I believe you have thought a lot about what other people think... And you tell yourself such things to justify the wasted time, money, and space.

I can relate to what's being said here. Because in my experience so far with people who play downloaded games, or have a pre-loaded XBox with tons of arcade games, they just don't appreciate the games as much. It's overwhelming, and there's a certain apathy that comes with having nearly every conceivable classic arcade game illegally available at your fingertips. I spent a lot of work tracking down boards for the multiplayer Konami games I value, like Violent Storm, for example, while someone with the game buried on their XBox likely either has no appreciation for it or has never even booted it to try it out. I know I'm being cynical and just denying to myself the reality of what's possible in this day and age, but it's disheartening to think of the work I put into my collection, while the games are so easily had for free and disregarded by others. Maybe it's just because the type of person who bothers to track down the original board is the kind of person who better appreciates the game to begin with, but at any rate, the mentaility of someone who uses emulators vs. a collector is a whole different perspective. In the end, if you're a collector who goes out of their way to find the originals, that should be a reward unto itself -- there should be a certain value in that alone -- or perhaps you're wasting your money. It's about the perceived value, and I think even most emulator people in the back of their minds have some appreciation for an original game too.

 

[Neo Alec]

Actually, I believe you have thought a lot about what other people think... And you tell yourself such things to justify the wasted time, money, and space.

Actually, my scenario which you quoted is very rare. I've only seen a romBox on 2 isolated occasions. I don't really have many big gamer friends anymore. I'm more or less gaming in isolation. The internet is the only place I really talk about it, and yes, quite long ago I decided I fall on the non-emulation side of the issue, although I'm much less militant about it than I used to be. 'Thought about it' yes, bragging for status, no. Online status is meaningless anyway.

 

[jox43w]

For me the 90s was the golden era of gaming you i rember the 1st time i played kof and saying to my pal omg have you played it the people in the back ground move! That was cutting edge sht! Man times will just never be the same what id do to go back in time and have one blast at sam sho 2 in the good old days

 

[MilkManX]

It's the genius of the games themselves that matters.

Who is more of a gamer now...some guy with all the KoF carts in ziplock baggies who hasn't touched a single one in three years, or the emukid who could beat that collector's ass like a drum with a fucking keyboard because he actually KNOWS the game in question?

I dunno man. I don't think those games do anyone any good on a shelf for eternity.
I suppose I take the middle road, as I mostly play PS2 ports with a Hori stick and it feels good to me. I had a real homecart system and MVS setup several times over, but all I care about now is being able to play those games and enjoy them. The medium on which the game resides just doesn't friggin' matter to me anymore. If you relish that sort of thing, dig it, but don't expect to win any points from anyone for it or try to consider yourself better because of it.

Besides, technically, buying actual Neo stuff NOW doesn't support SNK-P in the least.
Buying the ports actually does. That said, I still plan on building a shuttle PC later on in the fall and just having it all right under the telly.

I am in the same boat.

These recent collections on a PS2 with some nice sticks are very close to having the read deal.

Plus you get Component out by default and most of the compilations have the arranged tunes from the CD releases.

I have had both AES and MVS collections in the past and so far the PS2 collection I have is pretty awesome and is filling the void since I had to part with my MVS setup years ago.

So far I have all of the US releases.

Art Of Fighting Anthology
Fatal Fury Battle Archives 1 & 2
Metal Slug Collection
King Of Fighters 2k2 & 2k3
King Of Fighters XI
Neo-Geo Battle Coliseum
World Heroes Collection

Next up is that SNK Arcade Classics which looks pretty great for only $15 USD.

 

[sketch]

I think to each his own. There's nothing wrong with playing the PS2 ports. If the discrepancies between the ports and the originals don't bother you (or are below your threshold of noticing), then more power to you. Sometimes I notice port issues and don't even have the original to compare to; they are that obvious. But I don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. As someone said, we're supporting SNK-Playmore by buying these ports, and to me, they still have value because the discrepancies don't usually make the games unplayable.

Emulation likewise has a place. It does expose some gamers to the games, and it allows others who can't afford the "real thing" to play these brilliant, classic games.

Being a collector is ultimately about the fun of collecting, owning, and playing the games, IMHO. There's nothing wrong with any of these scenarios, depending on how you approach it. I don't really dig people who collect ROMS just to have them and never play the games. Neither do I like it when someone buys games just to own physically but never play them. But people can do what they like; it doesn't affect me. I just think it's more fun to play the games in any form that you find acceptable. The ROM issue does have a moral component to it, but again, if you do it for a reference system, or if you are just convinced most of the games are dead and won't be coming back, then that works too.

 

[Takumaji]

I think to each his own. There's nothing wrong with playing the PS2 ports. If the discrepancies between the ports and the originals don't bother you (or are below your threshold of noticing), then more power to you. Sometimes I notice port issues and don't even have the original to compare to; they are that obvious. But I don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. As someone said, we're supporting SNK-Playmore by buying these ports, and to me, they still have value because the discrepancies don't usually make the games unplayable.

Good points.

The differences between some PS2 SNK(P) ports and the originals arent't that huge, some of them (like the KoFs) are spot-on and will give you a more or less original gameplay experience, IMO that's all that matters anyway. Not to mention the extras of many port releases, like galleries, extra play modes, selectable graphics enhancements, etc. etc.

I would never look down on port buyers because a) I'm a port fan/buyer myself and b) I grew up with arcade ports. I always was a huge arcade fan and spent considerable parts of my childhood and youth in smokey, badly-lit arcades, feeding cabs with tokens and wasting away my pocket money and later on my first hard-earned bucks. I always wanted to play these games at home and did so, first on C=64, then SMS, Genny, etc. The ports of old weren't even proper ports to start with, they mostly were adaptions but we didn't really care... it was and is all about fun. Later on I bought a NGH and NGCD because I simply wanted to have the original machines of the games I loved the most but never stopped buying ports.

In short, I find it very cool that SNKP comes up with all these ports, that's something I was dreaming of 10 years ago already... the more people get a chance to play these great games on a system they own, the better.

Ports iz POWAR TO THE GAMER PEOPLES!!!11!!

 

[Electroman]

Don't like emulators much.

 

[sketch]

Well, I'm awaiting both my AES system (with Sam Sho II) and SNK Collection for PS2, both of which have shipped. It's a race to see which gets here first! I anxiously await being able to compare emulation and the "real thing" myself

 

[evil wasabi]

Don't like emulators much.

they play the games better than the original hardware, and miles better than any of the ports.

what's not to like?

The fact that some po' mexican has the same roms and can play better than the rich kids with the games?

 

[Neo Alec]

they play the games better than the original hardware

I don't think most people agree with that. The emulators do a great job, but even if you perceive it to be better, the authenticity is still always going to be in question.