Why does KOF XII suck so much? (Was "So KOF XII is delayed?")

Billkwando

OG OG,
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2000
Posts
1,768
14.48
1.87

13ms

My wife is streaming netflix right now so that's probably not accurate. Still, hanafuda must leave the room. :angry:


Oh and apparently the new thing on the KOF facebook page is to blame the firmware update, rather than the patch.
 

Neo Alec

Legendary Member?
25 Year Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2000
Posts
14,211
lol, if you're okay with shitty, subpar netcode, then don't "wonder" why everybody is upset. No, I don't read a KOF facebook, so you're right that I wouldn't know that. However, even if I did, it wouldn't make me any less unsatisfied with the poor treatment that we're receiving.
I don't read facebook either, and I've only glanced at the other forums, but I've read the interview and the impression I get from everyone is quite clear. Be realistic, you were expecting miracles.

But make no mistake, I'm as upset as the next guy that the online is bad. I looked forward to this game as much as anyone and wanted it to be perfect. That said, the game doesn't need to be recalled and it's not going to happen. That's because the game works, and the online is playable at times. I'm sure they're sorry the online isn't as good as most other games and they'll fix it in the next game.

This whole outcome sucks. I practiced so much crap in training to use when the new patch hit. I tried having faith. This whole situation currently is unreal.
You were delusional. But it sure "sucks to be you," this being the end of the world and all.

This whole situation shows terrible disrespect for us as human beings, a complete lack of even bothering to learn the market they are spitting a ton of games into. Like really, I can't believe how stupid this whole thing is. I feel like someone's senile grandparents released this game.

The first step to getting to know us is to have better public relations. For christ sakes one of SFIV's CREATORS, Ono was at evo giving out autographs and having fun with fans. Why the hell is the SNK fanbase so terribly disrespected? I can't think of more loyal fans who deserve better attention.
I may not be buying anymore games from this company unless they address the whole KOF XII situation with a huge turnaround. At this point, its even beyond insulting.
You're taking this all a little too personally, don't you think? Game companies not caring about the market outside of Japan is nothing new. Some companies have done an excellent job catering to the worldwide audience at times, but SNKP is a very small company with limited resources. There are so few small developers left in Japan not making interactive graphic novels that haven't been scooped up by a big publisher, I for one am glad a company like SNKP is around.

What's the logic behind all this talk of SNKP sucking balls and Ignition being the dogs bollocks? Has the world really turned on its head and publishers suddenly want longer development times and developers want to rush things out for a quick sale?
Most intelligent thing in this thread, perhaps. The publisher is still making money from an inferior product. They can act like they're the good guys and they're doing everything to help us all they want, but in the end they're party to the crime.

http://www.speedtest.net/

Everyone with this game running well do me a favor and test this and report your results. Mine came up:

15.82 mb downstream

0.98 mb upstream
21.33 down

12.76 up
 
Last edited:

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Posts
18,076
We all should take this personally, because the game is unplayable.

Other companies don't have stupid bank and have perfectly fine online modes. Its not a impossibility. SNKP fucked up and nobody can defend that on any level.

This company made perfectly legit games on a small bank role in the past. Releasing something thats unfinished is one thing, but not having ONE mode outside of training that poses even a remote challenge to human intelligence is another.

I am taking this very personally, because I care about this game a lot.

I said it was good because the engine is the sickest thing this company has made outside of the garbage mugen spam games we kept seeing. FINALLY a game made after KOF 2002 I cared to learn on a good level. When I say training mode I mean that.. That whole thing stinks, because putting all that time in I figured out some things that are no good for me now. Its just ashame more then anything.
 
Last edited:

Neo Alec

Legendary Member?
25 Year Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2000
Posts
14,211
Well, I respect that opinion because I can tell it's because you love the company and its games.
 

subcons

I take no official position on the issue.,
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Posts
3,519
Download 58.4 Mb/s

Upload 30.5 Mb/s

Ping 0 ms

:lolz:

That shit is one big LAN. Damned Japan and their super innanets.

If I do a speed test to the closest local server, it's the following:

14.92 MB/s (DOWN)
1.97 MB/s (UP)
38ms PING

I have a friend in Tampa, FL (I'm in MD) that I play this with on Live and we have a pretty consistent connection to each other (i.e., it's smooth). Here were the results to his local server:

18.93 MB/s (DOWN)
1.77 MB/s (UP)
102ms PING
 

SonGohan

Made of Wood
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2001
Posts
23,657
I don't read facebook either, and I've only glanced at the other forums, but I've read the interview and the impression I get from everyone is quite clear. Be realistic, you were expecting miracles.

These are the words from somebody who swallows shallow gaming experiences because he's conditioned himself to "not have high expectations." I wasn't expecting a miracle. I was expecting a function within a game to be playable that other companies got right over 10 years ago.
 

Lovergoat

, KING of GOATs, Greatest of all time...
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Posts
1,123
These are the words from somebody who swallows shallow gaming experiences because he's conditioned himself to "not have high expectations." I wasn't expecting a miracle. I was expecting a function within a game to be playable that other companies got right over 10 years ago.

Name one online fighting game from ten years ago that had no lag or input delay.
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Posts
18,076
haha, that really just says it all.
 

Neo Alec

Legendary Member?
25 Year Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2000
Posts
14,211
These are the words from somebody who swallows shallow gaming experiences because he's conditioned himself to "not have high expectations."
I'm a 90's gamer. Online reliability is a separate issue from 'game' to me. Although it obviously directly affects the gaming experience of those trying to play online. I do not settle for subpar games.

You do have to look at the size of the company making the games, however. SNKP more than likely exhausted their budget already on development, and that's why the game was released in such a state. Now you're asking this small company to throw more money they likely don't have at the problem without understanding a bit of the technical details. Yes, we're all pissed, but we're also spoiled.
 

SonGohan

Made of Wood
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2001
Posts
23,657
I'm a 90's gamer. Online reliability is a separate issue from 'game' to me. Although it obviously directly affects the gaming experience of those trying to play online. I do not settle for subpar games.

You do have to look at the size of the company making the games, however. SNKP more than likely exhausted their budget already on development, and that's why the game was released in such a state. Now you're asking this small company to throw more money they likely don't have at the problem without understanding a bit of the technical details. Yes, we're all pissed, but we're also spoiled.

What does being a 90s gamer have to do with anything? We aren't playing a Genesis here on our 28bps modem. We're talking about a (in my case) 360 video game on a high speed connection. If you don't play online that's fine. This feature does not directly affect you. For the millions of people who've bought the game that it does affect, it's unacceptable. Read that word again: unacceptable.

This company has made playable online games before. It's not out of the realm of possibility that they can create another game with a playable online feature. I'm not asking this company to "throw more money they don't have," I'm asking them to release a video game in a finished state. Anybody would be upset about playing a game from their favorite company with an important, busted feature.

If you want to say that I'm spoiled by video games that play and work as they should, then you're nothing but a delusional fanboy who gobbles up anything SNKP throws off the dinner table. I fucking LOVE this game, but I'm very aware of how crippled it is. So sit there, and accept the shit that you're given, but don't try and make excuses for why it is the way it is and expect people to accept it, not have "high expectations" (lol), or sympathize with the companys bankroll. If you can't put out a finished product then don't start a project.
 

Metal Slugnuts

Faggotier
Joined
Feb 13, 2006
Posts
7,514
From speedtest.com

23.45 down
8.06 ups
26 ms ping

My wife's on FFXI right now too.

I'll have to check on the Triple itself later.
 

Neo Alec

Legendary Member?
25 Year Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2000
Posts
14,211
What does being a 90s gamer have to do with anything?
It means I can live without online. I don't particularly like playing online. I've lived without it for a long time.

If you want to say that I'm spoiled by video games that play and work as they should, then you're nothing but a delusional fanboy who gobbles up anything SNKP throws off the dinner table.
My words were that we are all spoiled. If you want to call me a "delusional fanboy," that's an ignorant thing to say to someone who has been playing video games and has been active in the Neo Geo community as long as I have. You will notice I haven't thrown any such labels in your direction; all I'm doing is urging people to settle the fuck down.
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Posts
18,076
Well, I respect that opinion because I can tell it's because you love the company and its games.

I'd respect that same opinion if it also came from a hater, because its not just me who went through that BS, a lot of people did and they are left sitting on a busted investment. I mean, its not like we have any unlockables, or useful extra's to unlock to keep us playing, its truly bare bones as you know.

To me the worst thing is the fact the gameplay is GDLK and I've been going to friends saying how good it is, but I don't wish this mess on anyone. Its to late in the game for them to not understand american needs, especially when releasing the biggest title in a decade. SNKP is clearly not intune with american needs, hasn't done the necessary research of those needs either.

This isn't even a issue that happened yesterday, they COULD have made it right by just being more patient with the release.

I honestly want my game recalled and repaired/finished.
 

SonGohan

Made of Wood
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2001
Posts
23,657
It means I can live without online. I don't particularly like playing online. I've lived without it for a long time.

Well that statement really doesn't make any sense as the birth of playing video games online was in the 90s. You may have lived without playing online in the 90s, but that was because arcades were fruitful. Online play is where most people get their competition these days, myself included. Fighting games were made to raise your level of playing to compete with another person.

My words were that we are all spoiled. If you want to call me a "delusional fanboy," that's an ignorant thing to say to someone who has been playing video games and has been active in the Neo Geo community as long as I have. You will notice I haven't thrown any such labels in your direction; all I'm doing is urging people to settle the fuck down.

Anybody who comes into a thread where people have a legitimate complaint and tries to make excuses for an inexcusable thing must have an agenda. So unless you specifically work for SNKP, it's reasonable to assume you're either a) stupid, or b) a fanboy (delusional is pretty redundant in this case). You don't come off as being stupid, because it takes a bit of thought to spin such lack of effort into the various excuses you've given us.

It doesn't matter how long you've been active in a Neo Geo community, either. It doesn't give you magical credibility and foresight into bad business practice that is otherwise lost on people who don't visit a website. You can tell me to settle down, but I blew $50 on a video game that I can't play online. I consider it money down the drain because I can't compete on any sort of realistic level with my buddies from the very Neo Geo community you claim gives you credibility to be okay with not being able to do so.

And the thing is, I want to support the company. I want them to do well, but they drop the ball at the worst times. I paid for a Fatal Fury Special rom on my 360 when I could've just stuck with it for free on my PC and GGPO and other (fan) services who somehow got it right without the backing of a big company. I passed KOF98, though, simply because I can't play it online. I'm not going to blindly support everything this company puts out and make excuses for why things are terrible and be okay with it. That would be a fanboy thing to do.
 

Billkwando

OG OG,
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2000
Posts
1,768
I consider it money down the drain because I can't compete on any sort of realistic level with my buddies from the very Neo Geo community you claim gives you credibility to be okay with not being able to do so.


God bless the English language. This sentence is so gloriously convoluted, I wanna hump it. :scratch:

I'm not making fun of you either....I really do like it. I just can't help picturing Groucho Marx saying it while wiggling a cigar.


For the record, I think the disc should be re-pressed as well, if I hadn't said so here already.
 

Lovergoat

, KING of GOATs, Greatest of all time...
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Posts
1,123
I still don't see these so called excuses. All I see is another side to the "it's a conspiracy, SNKP hates Americans, i was robbed of $50" neurosis.

It does suck that the games main use for most people is redundant. It also sucks that there is no boss. But it's easy for us with local competition to see the merits of the game. Also what are being seen as excuses are much more realistic reasons for having bad online play than the current emotional outbursts.

So called "netcode" is bloody hard to get right, more so for a small company that doesn't have the resources to have a dedicated team of programmers to deal with network stuff. Even more so when the developer has to deliver a finished game in an unrealistic time frame. Also that company exists only in Japan and relies solely on its publisher and the platform owners to test for localisation issues and online outside of Japan. From what I can tell Ignition only made SNKP aware of the shonky online after the games release.

Hopefully my $50 will go towards encouraging Ignition to invest more money and give more realistic deadlines for milestones in the XIII project. In fact I'd much rather they did that than threw non existent resources at something that is probably impossible to salvage.

This isn't even really a controversial issue. The only reason people are in disagreement about it is some people don't really play online much if at all. Nobody is even disagreeing with the negativity, just some of us aren't quite so negative about it. So it's easier for us to cut free from the emotion of it all and see it for how it really is.
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Posts
18,076
Nobody really says they hate americans. To me its a bad business plan altogether, because when you put resources and money into any project, you wanna have it projected at the right market. This whole style of business is blind shot and its embarrassing. Japanese industry in general is very aware of whats going on when they put a product forward. Capcom is aware, Konami is aware. They aren't releasing games on a consistent basis that have game breaking bugs, bad functioning onlines or just incomplete projects. I mean, it is at a point where I could step into the company myself and find some of these bugs and have them fixed/reported. I understand how some of them work.

I'm a single individual, and I could have brought this stuff to the right attention if I was involved. How is it that a entire staff of trained associates can't do the same thing? I mean its not that damn hard to put time in and test situational things that may be glitches.

This whole argument even ACCEPTED this behavior, which IMO is lenient enough when the competition is putting forward better bug tested products. I think we were cool about that. The online is unacceptable though. Completely.
 

Lovergoat

, KING of GOATs, Greatest of all time...
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Posts
1,123
Nobody really says they hate americans. To me its a bad business plan altogether, because when you put resources and money into any project, you wanna have it projected at the right market. This whole style of business is blind shot and its embarrassing. Japanese industry in general is very aware of whats going on when they put a product forward. Capcom is aware, Konami is aware. They aren't releasing games on a consistent basis that have game breaking bugs, bad functioning onlines or just incomplete projects. I mean, it is at a point where I could step into the company myself and find some of these bugs and have them fixed/reported. I understand how some of them work.

I'm a single individual, and I could have brought this stuff to the right attention if I was involved. How is it that a entire staff of trained associates can't do the same thing? I mean its not that damn hard to put time in and test situational things that may be glitches.

This whole argument even ACCEPTED this behavior, which IMO is lenient enough when the competition is putting forward better bug tested products. I think we were cool about that. The online is unacceptable though. Completely.

I have a bit of an understanding of how these things work too and the company you'd have to walk into would be Ignition, if you walked into SNKP you'd be testing the game in a small country with blisteringly fast internet speeds, so you wouldn't notice an issue. Capcom and Konami both knock out AAA titles on AAA budgets so that comparison is hardly fair.

I still blame the publisher for not spotting the problem sooner and if necessary digging deep to fund fixing the network stuff. Of course SNKP wrote the network code and that is their fault, but if nobody knew there was a problem. How could they fix it? To a lesser extent Sony and Microsoft are to blame for letting such a shonky game through their standards too.
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Posts
18,076
I have a bit of an understanding of how these things work too and the company you'd have to walk into would be Ignition, if you walked into SNKP you'd be testing the game in a small country with blisteringly fast internet speeds, so you wouldn't notice an issue. Capcom and Konami both knock out AAA titles on AAA budgets so that comparison is hardly fair.

I still blame the publisher for not spotting the problem sooner and if necessary digging deep to fund fixing the network stuff. Of course SNKP wrote the network code and that is their fault, but if nobody knew there was a problem. How could they fix it? To a lesser extent Sony and Microsoft are to blame for letting such a shonky game through their standards too.

They should have done more research then. They should have tested the markets, and the things people in those markets typically use. Konami marketed the Suikoden series here, and its always been a consistently good series, despite that its a back seat to MGS and others.

They should have had people test in the US HUNDREDS of times before even bothering with a release on any grand scale. They are gonna take losses time and time again because the strategy of marketing is clearly junk here.

Also KOF XII came out for 60$ on release, not 30$.

Its not about Capcom or Konami's bank though, so don't assume that. SNKP isn't a broke company, what was required wouldn't have done the damage that people seem to believe it would have. SNKP has released a lot of games in the last three years. They even made compilations, so they clearly had AT least enough to fortify this game on release.

They patched this game TWICE. Think about this, most companies get it right the first time.

Here is what I posted on Ignition at 9/3

SNKP has a decent netcode for the Japanese base of gamers, but they didn't do enough research on the american scene, this is obviously not a good company decision, as we Americans expect the netcode to be direct competition to others who paved the way. I am frankly am surprised a Japanese company would do so little research on this. Now lets look at the hype blazblue has got, it was amazingly done because time was put into concern for the American base who wanna play fighters online in a serious way, I respect this company because it thought of the gamer first. The person who puts down the cash for something quality.

This release would have sold amazingly well as word to mouth gaming in American scenes causes people to buy games like crazy. It also has the opposite effect. For 60$, we expect quality. In the US, California is broke. So 60$ is a lot of money, that's almost a 100$

Very poor marketing decision here.

SNKP is fully capable of making amazing releases that can please people, but first they need to stop ignoring American interests, and figure out what makes these releases for people across sea's. We live in a age where online gaming is the key thing, Capcom of japan knows this, SNKP should to. They need to do some firing IMO. They need to revamp there debugging section as well.. This is just lazyness at this point. If I was in charge over there, I'd call a staff meeting with such vocal brutality it'd make front page news on CNN. Whoever is in charge needs to get MAD, and mad quick, we don't need another drop out.

I miss the days where it was all about SNK and CAPCOM competing with each other, at this point, SNKP isn't even getting respect from its most diehard base. I'm 26 years old, the next big number for me is 30, and I've been supporting SNK since the snes takara releases, then I got my neo-geo set ups, and I own over 100 games on cross formats total, some even multiples of each other, because the games to me were just art. Great tough gameplay, good competitive players, shit even the AI of the old games was amazing. *Fatal fury 2 for example* The situation at hand is not what I expect from this company, because we all get mad since we know that it could have been better, we grew up in quality, and there is no reason it should be different now. I'll continue to support SNKP, but they need to pay more attention to the american fanbase, we make them money, and having people kick SNKP out the door with each problematic release isn't helping.

I don't have regrets when I used to unload 369$ on releases, yes 369$, KOF 2000 was awesome when I'd play at super arcade back in 2000, and couldn't wait to own it at home to improve my game, I even made a combo video for it. Times have changed, and 60$ is the new 369$, so quality needs to be up to expectation. As far as patches go, the only ones that should be released are ones that make the good netcode even better. I like the DLC idea also.

KOF XII lacks AI, it lacks a good netcode with both patches, it lacks backgrounds, theres no story or bosses. I could do without all that stuff if the Netcode was solid, but all I have with this release is a training mode to test combos I find on youtube that I can't use due to the netcode and lack of a scene outside of the net.

Heck, this release could have reinvigorated SNKP, because it'd establish more fans with the netcode. Why even release the game unless you've thoroughly tested this as a company, its not like this release was really cheap to begin with, so what the heck happened here? SNKP could be making some serious money, getting more players interested at becoming good, getting more money in the process, a beefier fan base.

Instead I'm out 60$ on a game I don't really have a use for now. Everyone should be mad about the netcode, the game has a killer engine that's totally wasted here, it really isn't finished though. It is so hard for me being a fan as long as I have to come out and complain like this, but my intention is strictly for the best for everyone involved. It is a crying shame it turned out the way it did.
 
Last edited:

Lovergoat

, KING of GOATs, Greatest of all time...
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Posts
1,123
I don't really have much more to say on the matter, just repeating the same old stuff I already said.

You are right that it should have been properly tested and it is unacceptable that a key feature doesn't work but I really do think that responsibility is the publishers. Capcom and Konami publish their own titles so of course they do their homework in markets outside of Japan. Just as Ignition should have done the same.
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Posts
18,076
I really do think that responsibility is the publishers. Capcom and Konami publish their own titles so of course they do their homework in markets outside of Japan. Just as Ignition should have done the same.

It was in a variety of cases actually. Especially with SNK CLASSIC v1.. I don't think any update they could do could make this right, its not like they get any credit from anyone to begin with, but they tried patching it two times and its still a mess. SNKP should never have shipped that netcode to the US to begin with.
 
Top