Why does KOF XII suck so much? (Was "So KOF XII is delayed?")

[Lovergoat]

I don't think anybody was expecting it to be as good as SFIV, but you have to remember that Capcom also put out Hyper Fighting on xbox live which has just as bad of lag as KOFXII. What doesn't make sense is at the same time, SNKP put out Fatal Fury Special which is really good online. But with their latest releases it seems like they've dropped the ball. I wish I could get my points back for MOTW. MOTW, KOF98, and KOFXII were all released within the same time frame and all are absolutely unplayable online. I think people expected the netcode to get better with time and each release, not seriously worse.

That makes sense. I don't really play games online much so I would never have known that. I should probably try to get online more than my current hour or two a month.

 

[Billkwando]

so bummed so far...even local matches are wrecked, and my connection (20Mdown, over 1M up) is dope: i live across the street from the Verizon CO, my cnxn is home-ran to my NID, and there are NO loadcoils on the span between my prem and the CO.

*Strongsad voice*

"I don't even know what that means!"

 

[wataru330]

Sorry for the jargon...

*Strongsad voice*

"I don't even know what that means!"

2O Megs download speeds and over 1Meg upload speeds.

For copper wire based DSL (y'know- the phone lines you see on the street on phone poles) the closer physically one is to the Central Office, the better the connection. DSL peters out around 16k ft.

The Central Office is where a particular dial tone or DSL signal originates.

A 'home run' connecton from ones Network Interface Device (ne NID) to their equipment (modem, router et al) is a straight shot: avoiding things like 1/2 ringers, carriages containing electronics, and bad splices/ junction points. This ensures the fastest speeds possible...think of it as the RGB of network connections.

Many of my customers in telecom have poor speeds at their premises due to load coils (a type of testing equipment that "plugs up the pipes" so to speak) out on the span (the wires up on the phone poles). I don't have load coils btwn my house and the Central Office.

What does all the above mean in regards to XII?

This is what. The ignition forums have got to be kidding by trying to blame XII's piss-poor online performance on folks not having ports open, or the correct NAT.
My internet connection and speeds are flawless.

They need to fix the netcode.

Period.

 

[Neo Alec]

For new netcode.

Which is what we expected.

Which is why everybody is bitching.

If you have anymore questions just create an "Ask Wes" thread in the war room and we'll take care of you.

lol, if you were expecting the whole netcode replaced, then you should have read the interview and the posts on the Ignition forums and facebook. That would have set your expectations lower. There's no way they'll replace the netcode, it's just too big of an update. There are limits to what you can realistically patch on consoles, especially with a small company like SNKP.

 

[Billkwando]

2O Megs download speeds and over 1Meg upload speeds.

For copper wire based DSL (y'know- the phone lines you see on the street on phone poles) the closer physically one is to the Central Office, the better the connection. DSL peters out around 16k ft.

The Central Office is where a particular dial tone or DSL signal originates.

A 'home run' connecton from ones Network Interface Device (ne NID) to their equipment (modem, router et al) is a straight shot: avoiding things like 1/2 ringers, carriages containing electronics, and bad splices/ junction points. This ensures the fastest speeds possible...think of it as the RGB of network connections.

Many of my customers in telecom have poor speeds at their premises due to load coils (a type of testing equipment that "plugs up the pipes" so to speak) out on the span (the wires up on the phone poles). I don't have load coils btwn my house and the Central Office.

What does all the above mean in regards to XII?

This is what. The ignition forums have got to be kidding by trying to blame XII's piss-poor online performance on folks not having ports open, or the correct NAT.
My internet connection and speeds are flawless.

They need to fix the netcode.

Period.

Oh ok! I actually knew all that in layman's terms. "Cable is affected by how many users are on it, and DSL is affected by how close you are to the phone company" That's the short version I've always heard. I'm on FiOS, so I dunno how we work, but we work fast.

http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail77.swf

 

[wataru330]

i'm a lost ball in tall weeds...

...when it comes to FiOS. not sure how Verizon configures and/caps their customers.

at the guts tho, it is Fiber so i would guess T1 and higher up/down speeds w/ out shared bandwidth is theoretically possible.

cool thing about Fiber is that everything is via one pipe, w/out any of the pitfalls that plauge copper. Fiber may put POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) under, once it becomes in expensive enough.

 

[Rade K]

Why are people still making excuses?

Playing SFIV just reminds me of how behind the times SNK really is. And SFIV ain't even that great.

 

[Lovergoat]

Why are people still making excuses?

Playing SFIV just reminds me of how behind the times SNK really is. And SFIV ain't even that great.

Who's making excuses?

 

[Billkwando]

Why are people still making excuses?

Which people?

 

[Taiso]

I don't really see anybody making 'excuses.' I think they're just sort of saying 'it is what it is and what's the point of bitching about it at this stage?' More or less, anyway.

The point of bitching about it is just because most of us are really frustrated and need an outlet.

RE: "Capcom has more money to throw around so their netcode is going to be better than a smaller company like SNK-P."

If SNK-P can't afford to make a game with competent netcode, they shouldn't promise online play. Nor should they promise online play as the main draw of the game.

With MOTW, KOF '98 UM and the other XBL games, the netcode isn't great but at least I can still glean a little enjoyment from the game due to the 1P experience being the same as I remember it. I don't feel that I've been ripped off because those DLs were pretty cheap and I still derive some nostalgia value out of the 1P experience.

KOF XII's game engine, control (in local play) and graphics are perfectly fine. It's head to head online is shit and its 1P experience is shit. At this point I'm not even angry about this. It's just statement of fact that the home release of this game is a steaming pile and a miserable failure. They sold us an untested beta, but they promised us so much more.

SNK-P can still make this a worthy game to own, but at this point I think they need to focus on other aspects of the game in order to satisfy the disgruntled consumers.

If the netcode can't be fixed through a patch, they should focus their strategy on making the game more robust in other capacities.

Fix the 1P AI so it doesn't play like a retard.

Add a story mode, complete with a boss, ending cinemas for every characters and an expanded gallery.

Add taunts, character interactions and more than one victory pose.

They promised that this would be a 'back to basics' approach. Well, you can't get more basic than making it a very well made game for local play as with the AES releases of days gone by, now can they?

Maybe the online is a lost cause, but if they change their focus this can still be a worthy game to own. But they probably won't do any of that.

I wonder if SNK-P really made any money off this game or if its' sales are considered as miserable a failure as the public reaction has largely been.

 

[Billkwando]

I don't really see anybody making 'excuses.' I think they're just sort of saying 'it is what it is and what's the point of bitching about it at this stage?' More or less, anyway.

The point of bitching about it is just because most of us are really frustrated and need an outlet.

RE: "Capcom has more money to throw around so their netcode is going to be better than a smaller company like SNK-P."

If SNK-P can't afford to make a game with competent netcode, they shouldn't promise online play. Nor should they promise online play as the main draw of the game.

With MOTW, KOF '98 UM and the other XBL games, the netcode isn't great but at least I can still glean a little enjoyment from the game due to the 1P experience being the same as I remember it. I don't feel that I've been ripped off because those DLs were pretty cheap and I still derive some nostalgia value out of the 1P experience.

KOF XII's game engine, control (in local play) and graphics are perfectly fine. It's head to head online is shit and its 1P experience is shit. At this point I'm not even angry about this. It's just statement of fact that the home release of this game is a steaming pile and a miserable failure. They sold us an untested beta, but they promised us so much more.

SNK-P can still make this a worthy game to own, but at this point I think they need to focus on other aspects of the game in order to satisfy the disgruntled consumers.

If the netcode can't be fixed through a patch, they should focus their strategy on making the game more robust in other capacities.

Fix the 1P AI so it doesn't play like a retard.

Add a story mode, complete with a boss, ending cinemas for every characters and an expanded gallery.

Add taunts, character interactions and more than one victory pose.

They promised that this would be a 'back to basics' approach. Well, you can't get more basic than making it a very well made game for local play as with the AES releases of days gone by, now can they?

Maybe the online is a lost cause, but if they change their focus this can still be a worthy game to own. But they probably won't do any of that.

I wonder if SNK-P really made any money off this game or if its' sales are considered as miserable a failure as the public reaction has largely been.

Adding all that stuff would be as hard, or harder, than new netcode, I would think.

What they need to do is press new discs and eat their mistake.

 

[Neo Alec]

Adding all that stuff would be as hard, or harder, than new netcode, I would think.

What they need to do is press new discs and eat their mistake.

Even harder!

 

[Billkwando]

Even harderer!

I never said it wasn't, but it's the right thing to do.

I honestly think making changes that drastic via patch is probably impossible, unless they built the architecture to do so into the game already......which is unlikely.

 

[LWK]

SNKP, YOU GUYS NEED TO RECALL THIS GAME.

Repress the DISC right.
Nobody deserves this treatment, this is not cool.

BTW, I wrote this even before reading bills post, so many people feel this way. Theres no excuse for the money people dropped on this coaster. I can't believe a company can just get away with stuff.

 

[SonGohan]

lol, if you were expecting the whole netcode replaced, then you should have read the interview and the posts on the Ignition forums and facebook. That would have set your expectations lower. There's no way they'll replace the netcode, it's just too big of an update. There are limits to what you can realistically patch on consoles, especially with a small company like SNKP.

lol, if you're okay with shitty, subpar netcode, then don't "wonder" why everybody is upset. No, I don't read a KOF facebook, so you're right that I wouldn't know that. However, even if I did, it wouldn't make me any less unsatisfied with the poor treatment that we're receiving.

 

[LWK]

This whole outcome sucks. I practiced so much crap in training to use when the new patch hit. I tried having faith. This whole situation currently is unreal.

First we get a game with choppy lag after it was supposedly delayed to begin with. People want the thread's title changed, then the situation comes full circle, and now the title of the thread makes sense again.

Input delay is like what me and wes put up with on old ass Kaillera set ups. Actually at one point we had better online in one of those old garbage programs then any KOF XII officially made.

I badly want to play KOF XII online right now and level up, and thats impossible. It sucks to be me. I see why people are quitting though, there is no virtual scene in america, and online could have changed that. No way am I doing that time trial shit against a masturbating comp now.

 

[Raging.Storm]

I agree with that, SNKP is a small company. They seem to not have the resources on hand to do what needs to be done to make a working online fighting game. Look how long it took them to release what seems to be a not even finished game on modern platforms, the 360 is 4 years old this November.

So given the circumstances, it really shouldn’t be that surprising. But this still sucks, I’m about ready to move on from this game completely if the 360 patch doesn’t work.

 

[Kim Kaphwan]

360 patch hasn't been released yet?

 

[Taiso]

Adding all that stuff would be as hard, or harder, than new netcode, I would think.

What they need to do is press new discs and eat their mistake.

I think it would be harder too, because actually developing all that new in game code would be very time consuming. Not to mention, offering it as DLC would make for some huge downloads. AND it wouldn't be free, which would be a travesty in and of itself. So no argument there.

It's the truth to say they should have just added it all in from the start. Look at the state of modern console gaming now for all the proof you need of that.

I'll add to your last comment about pressing new discs and say:

What they need to do is press new discs, add in a generous amount of 1P content, offer nearly flawless netcode on par with SF IV and SSF2THDR for online play and eat their mistake.

SNK-P has done nothing but harm with the release of this title. I don't even feel the badly maligned Maximum Impact series hurts SNK-P as much as this title does.

 

[kernow]

Will someone please change the title of this thread?

 

[Taiso]

Will someone please change the title of this thread?

Yeah, to 'So KOF XII is fucked?'

 

[Billkwando]

It would seem that Ignortion is FINALLY acknowledging sending the 360 patch for certification......as of Wednesfuckingday.

King of Fighters XII For those of you that have been MIA on the KOF XII Page... You can now download software update version 1.02 for the PlayStation 3--online play massively overhauled! As for the 360 patch, it is currently going through the approval process and will be... available shortly. Thank you all for your support!
Wed at 11:44am

http://www.facebook.com/kingoffighters12?v=feed&story_fbid=122715792671

I'm really starting to get pissed.

 

[hanafuda]

Will someone please change the title of this thread?

I have tried and I can't.

PS

Game plays fine in Japan, so net code is not entirely 'fucked'.

 

[kernow]

Yeah its over a month old I guess, you'd think a mod would do something but heh.

 

[LWK]

Ignition isn't the one who made this game, they are just fixing the BS, they can't do it all. This shit lies with SNKP's decisions, and complete lack of business talents and now ethics, NOT knowing what americans want or even studying, to market there products.

Seriously, this is not the sign of a successful company. Successful companies study a market they send products to, if this same process was handled with any other thing, it'd be in a 99 cent store bin at this point.

This situation is such a shameful display of this company, it makes me want to vomit.

Seriously, the guys over in japan should be getting a verbal jousting for this fuck up, there is no excuse for the entire game. Amazing engine, and nothing can come of it. Its a cocktease of the highest rank..

The only way to summarize what people who play competitive fighters are going through is to think of it like a chocolate bar locked in 5 inch thick crystal display, its beautiful to look at, but fucking useless cause you can't have a bite. If I wanted this treatment, I'd just shoot up heroine and smoke pot two days later, then cry.