Which revision/region is this AES?

todosnk

Crossed Swords Squire
10 Year Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Posts
191
Hi there!
Could anyone enlight me a bit - in the box it says "PAL-B" but I've never seen this board before. It actually boots street hoop in EU version (as far as I know this game has 3 regions) and samsho2 with english text and green blood. But apparently its playing at 60hz (I always thought EU versions played only 50hz), and i have no black borders on top and down of the screen. Speed wise its identical to my other japanese aes system. Also, there is no rev board number written on the side of the pcb.
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance!

20220530_191616.jpgback.jpeghoop.jpg
 
Last edited:

Neo Alec

Ned's Ninja Academy Dropout
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2000
Posts
11,925
That's the original revision board, labeled "NEO-AES".

Check which clock crystal it is (left of the cart slot). There's also a selection input pin on the CXA1145 for PAL which will be grounded depending on the format.
 

todosnk

Crossed Swords Squire
10 Year Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Posts
191
Thank you, @Neo Alec ! I took a photo of the CXA and the clock crystal. The CXA has nothing on pin 7, but on pin 6 according to https://wiki.neogeodev.org/index.php?title=CXA1145

Since I can see Street Hoop title screen, I would assume this is a EU NTSC model (not sure even if this makes sense, or a rental version?) - How can I check if PAL? In this case, would I need a special scart cable to display it properly? Because none of that I have seem to work :( - attached a photo of AoF2 which shows some sort of desync on the top.


CXA1145.jpeg

20220530_153437.jpg
 

maki

Edo Express Delivery Guy
Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Posts
332
looks like it has an 3.579545MHz crystal for NTSC, by the last numbers (also a 24.167829MHz crystal as master clock FWIW)

that PPL board is not a good thing btw., its only purpose is to improve the composite video and has some drawbacks

those resistors on the video output (marked as 68Ohms) should be swapped as described on http://www.jamma-nation-x.com/jammax/tutorials.html
 

todosnk

Crossed Swords Squire
10 Year Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Posts
191
Thanks for the answers! What i still dont understand - is this model intended to be EU NTSC, or did someone mod it? Im no expert but looking at the pcb i see the pin for ntsc/pal in the CXA chip has no connections. Its clean like the rest of the board.
What would i need to display it correctly via scart as it is? Is it possible to modify this model to a pal 50hz one?
 

Neo Alec

Ned's Ninja Academy Dropout
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2000
Posts
11,925
Generally people want 60hz these days. You could change it back by replacing the clock crystal with a 4.433619 one. And I think you need to change the oscillator circuit as well.
 

todosnk

Crossed Swords Squire
10 Year Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Posts
191
Thank you! yes, I'll need to find out someone who can do the mod for me, as Im not that technical. So I guess the board was originally 50hz and someone modded it.
For the time being, what would I need to display it properly at 60hz via scart? because none of the cables I have seems to work so far :)
 

Neo Alec

Ned's Ninja Academy Dropout
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2000
Posts
11,925
Use a modern flat screen for that 60hz console.

Just buy a different console if you need one for a PAL CRT.
 

BIG BEAR

SHOCKbox Developer,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2001
Posts
8,230
I used to own one just like that years ago..definitely factory.
BB
 

Hattori Hanzo

AEShole
1 Year Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Posts
2,814
It will work fine if you can use a RGB cable. Your CRT probably doesn't like the PAL 60Hz via composite. Like Neo Alec already mentioned it will definitely work on a modern TV. Is this an American CRT?
 

todosnk

Crossed Swords Squire
10 Year Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Posts
191
Using scart is where the sync issue occurs. Its a flat crt euro tv and had no issues with the japanese aes with the same scart cable.
I just bought a sync scart one that should arrive early next week. Hopefully this will fix the display issue :)
 

thegreathopper

NAM-75 Vet
20 Year Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2002
Posts
1,008
Back in the day before I had the internet I modded a few of these, it was much simpler that changing crystals or clocks. It was a long time ago but I remember there was a solder jumper for 50 or 60 Hz, it was a very simple mod, no components to change.

Standard RGB scart lead worked with 60 or 50 Hz.
 

Neo Alec

Ned's Ninja Academy Dropout
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2000
Posts
11,925
Back in the day before I had the internet I modded a few of these, it was much simpler that changing crystals or clocks. It was a long time ago but I remember there was a solder jumper for 50 or 60 Hz, it was a very simple mod, no components to change.

Standard RGB scart lead worked with 60 or 50 Hz.
Yeah, the newer AES revisions have a jumper, but I believe the first revision does not.
 

Atro

Who?,
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2002
Posts
9,209
All you need to do is swap the sync wire on the din8 connector. Move the video signal from pin 3 to pin 7.

If you think it s a hassle, get a sync cleaner. That’ll work too.
 

todosnk

Crossed Swords Squire
10 Year Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Posts
191
Thank you guys for the tips. I took a video of the pcb. I think this is not the jumper version. I remember to have modded one long time ago and it had the pal/ntsc indicators somewhere. This one doesnt so yeah the mod is probably changing the crystal etc as mentioned before :)

 

maki

Edo Express Delivery Guy
Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Posts
332
have you tried using composite cable on your TV?
 

maki

Edo Express Delivery Guy
Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Posts
332
Yes, composite and rf work perfectly
when I had a NEO-AES it wouldn't work with my LCD in RGB mode, picture was constantly rolling
however, composite was fine
it worked fine in RGB with a CRT, or the OSSC

I tried fixing it for weeks until I realised that it was the TV having the issue, not the Neo Geo
don't be like me, don't solve the wrong problems ;)

CSYNC is quite low on these old first gen chipsets, and very dirty

there is a whole thread here about compatibility issues of Neo Geos with modern TVs

FWIW, Neo Geos have been built for 60Hz (actually 59.2Hz lol, thats the cause of main problems here) and RGB signals, not 50Hz and/or composite

Edit:
my repair log for a NEO-AES: https://www.neo-geo.com/forums/index.php?threads/graphic-problems-with-aes-aec.267412/
so if I listened earlier to people telling me it might be the TV, I would have saved weeks
in any case, the PLL video PCB should go out, more drawbacks than advantages, especially if you do not plan on using composite a lot

here is the thread about problems with modern TVs:
 
Last edited:

todosnk

Crossed Swords Squire
10 Year Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Posts
191
when I had a NEO-AES it wouldn't work with my LCD in RGB mode, picture was constantly rolling
however, composite was fine
it worked fine in RGB with a CRT, or the OSSC

I tried fixing it for weeks until I realised that it was the TV having the issue, not the Neo Geo
don't be like me, don't solve the wrong problems ;)

CSYNC is quite low on these old first gen chipsets, and very dirty

there is a whole thread here about compatibility issues of Neo Geos with modern TVs

FWIW, Neo Geos have been built for 60Hz (actually 59.2Hz lol, thats the cause of main problems here) and RGB signals, not 50Hz and/or composite

Edit:
my repair log for a NEO-AES: https://www.neo-geo.com/forums/index.php?threads/graphic-problems-with-aes-aec.267412/
so if I listened earlier to people telling me it might be the TV, I would have saved weeks
in any case, the PLL video PCB should go out, more drawbacks than advantages, especially if you do not plan on using composite a lot

here is the thread about problems with modern TVs:
Thank you so much for sharing! I see there are many interesting reads i should look into ;)
probably tomorrow i will be able to test it at my friends house on a different tv - looking forward to the experiment ;)
 

todosnk

Crossed Swords Squire
10 Year Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Posts
191
So I ordered a sync scart cable on friday and arrived today, the image looks great now and no more sync issues!

This is the one I ordered

https://www.arcadexpress.com/es/cab...-scart-para-mega-drive-1-y-master-system.html

but for NeoGeo (the MS and MD have different layout, not sure why the AES cable its not showing in their website anymore, maybe I got the last one :) ) and it works perfect!

I also tested on another CRT I have at home just to make sure and made a small video.


20220606_115053.jpg


Thank you guys for all the information sharing and advices! Another big SNK fan is now happy :)
 
Last edited:
Top