What's this about a black kid being shot again

[ki_atsushi]

Photos look about the same to me Just one is professional head shot, the other a more casual one. You are a photographer, you know the difference the two settings and after-effects can have on the presentation.

Come on nortie, now you're just arguing for argument's sake. Knowing that I'm a photographer, don't you think that I can tell the difference between lighting and actual age difference? His face was smaller, cheekbones and forehead less pronounced. Even from different angles you can tell the difference if you wanted to. But you don't, because it doesn't fit your argument.

 

[evil wasabi]

PS:
I don't know how MO law works, but in NY, Micheal Brown wouldn't be guilty of assault/battery/etc. Slapping the shit out of a police officer isn't even a crime (though the obstruction'/resisting parts may be).

How would he be guilty anywhere? Dead people don't get trials.

 

[norton9478]

Come on nortie, now you're just arguing for argument's sake. Knowing that I'm a photographer, don't you think that I can tell the difference between lighting and actual age difference? His face was smaller, cheekbones and forehead less pronounced. Even from different angles you can tell the difference if you wanted to. But you don't, because it doesn't fit your argument.

Well, we are talking about a period of 7 months on a growing boy. I think it has more to do with stature, facial expression and setting. And composition.

Do you really think he looks 5 years younger?

 

[Ninjainspandex]

Well, we are talking about a period of 7 months on a growing boy. I think it has more to do with stature, facial expression and setting. And composition.

Do you really think he looks 5 years younger?

I'd say he looks like he is 12 years old in the first pic and 16-17 years old in the second pic

 

[Mr Bakaboy]

Now...to the very slight issue I do not agree with...this statement:

"Was the cop within his rights to shoot.... yes. Did he have to unload 12 shots to settle this..... NO! That's the problem. That's why people are marching. That's why battle lines are being drawn."

You don't moderately shoot someone. The cop admitted he was scared to death of that mungo (6' 4"...I'd be scared too)...he shot to kill and did it until he thought he did the job. I will say, he had more than 12 rounds in that gun so at least he stopped before he emptied the magazine. he reacted in fear for his life...I strongly doubt he was counting his shots in real time.
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From what I heard it was not 12 shots in the car. There was a chase and afterwards the cop shot him. If he unloaded all 12 shots in the car because of fear then I really have nothing to say cause in that situation I would shoot to kill and keep shooting until he is dead. However in this situation he had distance from his perp. In this situation if he deemed it necessary to shoot, do you think after shooting him once or twice the perp is going to charge him? From what I heard he shot him, and the "kid" put his hands up in a "What the fuck?" motion. Afterwards the cop shot to kill. If the "kid" charged then I think no one had a right to dispute, but from what I heard he didn't. It was the cop wanted to finish the job. That's murder of passion or manslaughter in my opinion. that's why I dispute the number of shots.

 

[ReplicaX]

Riots against the outcome of the incident tossing the racist card all over the place, yet the rioters destroy public and private property regardless of the race of its owners.

Same thing happened when MLK Jr was assassinated. African American Business Owners literally put signs on their properties stating it was Black Owned and tried to defend them. They still burned regardless.

 

[hyper]

I don't know how MO law works, but in NY, Micheal Brown wouldn't be guilty of assault/battery/etc. Slapping the shit out of a police officer isn't even a crime (though the obstruction'/resisting parts may be).

are you high?

 

[ahcmetal]

The officer being "assaulted" doesn't matter (much). All that matters is what happened when the last 10 (actually final) shots were fired.

I just don't put the same faith in law enforcement as you do. You used to be my favorite cop hater. What happened?


PS:
I don't know how MO law works, but in NY, Micheal Brown wouldn't be guilty of assault/battery/etc. Slapping the shit out of a police officer isn't even a crime (though the obstruction'/resisting parts may be).

Do you have anything legit that specifically says physically assualting and NYPD officer isn't a crime? Can you provide us with the portion of the law that clearly states that in NYC it isn't a crime if Micheal Brown punches a cop in the face inside a police car? I'm totally serious, I really would like to read where it says that...

 

[ki_atsushi]

I'd say he looks like he is 12 years old in the first pic and 16-17 years old in the second pic

Exactly.

 

[smokehouse]

The officer being "assaulted" doesn't matter (much). All that matters is what happened when the last 10 (actually final) shots were fired.

I just don't put the same faith in law enforcement as you do. You used to be my favorite cop hater. What happened?


PS:
I don't know how MO law works, but in NY, Micheal Brown wouldn't be guilty of assault/battery/etc. Slapping the shit out of a police officer isn't even a crime (though the obstruction'/resisting parts may be).

I'll continue to go on record that for the most part, I do not like the police or support much of what they do, that won't change.

The issue is, fuck with the bull and get the horns. Punch a cop in the mug and you're going to get it...one way or another.

I do have to call some BS on that NY law thing...that I know of, hitting a law enforcement officer is illegal anywhere you go in the country...and, like I said above, is asking for it. You punch a cop in the face then reach for his gun and you'll be lucky of you live to tell the tale.

From what I heard it was not 12 shots in the car. There was a chase and afterwards the cop shot him. If he unloaded all 12 shots in the car because of fear then I really have nothing to say cause in that situation I would shoot to kill and keep shooting until he is dead. However in this situation he had distance from his perp. In this situation if he deemed it necessary to shoot, do you think after shooting him once or twice the perp is going to charge him? From what I heard he shot him, and the "kid" put his hands up in a "What the fuck?" motion. Afterwards the cop shot to kill. If the "kid" charged then I think no one had a right to dispute, but from what I heard he didn't. It was the cop wanted to finish the job. That's murder of passion or manslaughter in my opinion. that's why I dispute the number of shots.

Once the bomb is lit, its lit.

Once Brown punched that cop in the face, then grabbed for his gun, the sequence of events was started. At that point, it was on autopilot for them both.

By what I've read...here's what I take from it:

-Cop grabs Brown by the throat (while still in his vehicle. Cop says arm, witnesses say throat...I believe throat), Brown freaks out and socks cop in the face, cop draws gun, Brown freaks out and goes for gun, gets shot in the hand/arm.

-Brown takes off running, cop gets out, gives chase. Shoots at Brown and friend. Brown is hit in the back (I'm pretty sure I read this). At this time he turns around, probably in shock and heads towards cop. Eye witnesses report Brown being bent over, arms tucked in (again, probably in shock). Cop reports he thought Brown was charging him in attack, opens fire at him, fatally wounding him. (This story of him bent over, coming at the cop ties in better vs the "he had his hands in the air yelling don't shoot!!" story)

-According to reports...this entire even took 90 seconds.

All of this seems pretty believable. Ferguson is a dump...and the streets there are hard...as are the cops that patrol that area. Hard people + hard cops = bad situation.

To say the cop was a saint is bullshit...to say this kid (who had committed a felony earlier that day) is a saint is bullshit. Grabbing a person by the throat does not make him guilty of murder as sad as that may seem. Shooting at someone who punched you in the face, then tried to grab you gun is a common police occurrence...do a search on it, it happens quite often. You have to look at this through the eyes of the law...if the cop had assaulted Brown or not was not up for debate (which, in my eyes, if he did grab Brown by the throat, he was guilty of assault)...it was if should be tried for murder. Which, if what I posted above is true...I don't he should be.


My belief? This is an asshole cop and a thug kid. The cop was being an asshole to Brown and Brown took it to the next level. What happened after that is what happened after that.

Time out 90 seconds and see how long that is, then place everything I listed into that tiny window of time. Tell me again how much time that cop had to gather his thoughts and think clearly...

 

[evil wasabi]

Riots against the outcome of the incident tossing the racist card all over the place, yet the rioters destroy public and private property regardless of the race of its owners.

Same thing happened when MLK Jr was assassinated. African American Business Owners literally put signs on their properties stating it was Black Owned and tried to defend them. They still burned regardless.

The whole looting thing needs to be set aside for a minute.

What can society do to change the feeling that black people have about being discriminated against? Constantly feeling like you have an uphill battle in the way your are perceived in the world sucks, and that's the overarching problem.

Looting has taken away from the real problems that need to be fixed. Looting will happen any chance it gets. It's not because of racism or injustice. It's because it can happen.

 

[ReplicaX]

Do you have anything legit that specifically says physically assualting and NYPD officer isn't a crime? Can you provide us with the portion of the law that clearly states that in NYC it isn't a crime if Micheal Brown punches a cop in the face inside a police car? I'm totally serious, I really would like to read where it says that...

It's not just POs.

S 120.08 Assault on a peace officer, police officer, fireman or emergency medical services professional.

A person is guilty of assault on a peace officer, police officer, fireman or emergency medical services professional when, with intent to
prevent a peace officer, police officer, a fireman, including a fireman acting as a paramedic or emergency medical technician administering first aid in the course of performance of duty as such fireman, or an
emergency medical service paramedic or emergency medical service technician, from performing a lawful duty, he causes serious physical injury to such peace officer, police officer, fireman, paramedic or technician.

Assault on a peace officer, police officer, fireman or emergency medical services professional is a class C felony.

The whole looting thing needs to be set aside for a minute.

What can society do to change the feeling that black people have about being discriminated against? Constantly feeling like you have an uphill battle in the way your are perceived in the world sucks, and that's the overarching problem.

Looting has taken away from the real problems that need to be fixed. Looting will happen any chance it gets. It's not because of racism or injustice. It's because it can happen.

Who said looting?

ri·ot - take part in a violent public disturbance.

Fuck looting, I didn't even mention it and for a fucking reason. Because there is plenty of media evidence of ppl not looting businesses and literally just destroying them.

 

[hyper]

What can society do to change the feeling that black people have about being discriminated against?

dissolve the welfare program

 

[norton9478]

I do have to call some BS on that NY law thing...that I know of, hitting a law enforcement officer is illegal anywhere you go in the country...and, like I said above, is asking for it. You punch a cop in the face then reach for his gun and you'll be lucky of you live to tell the tale.

Striking someone is "Illegal" for sure. It is a civil penalty (harassment in the second degree), not criminal. Roughly the equivalent of being drunk in public or having an open container. The key word is "serious physical injury".

Police get no special protection unless it is a correctional facility. There was an attempt to make harassment of a police officer a crime (a felony), but it failed to pass both houses.

Once Brown punched that cop in the face, then grabbed for his gun, the sequence of events was started. At that point, it was on autopilot for them both.

Is that what they taught you in your CC class?

 

[ReplicaX]

Striking someone is "Illegal" for sure. It is a civil penalty (harassment in the second degree), not criminal. Roughly the equivalent of being drunk in public or having an open container.

Police get no special protection unless it is a correctional facility. There was an attempt to make harassment of a police officer a crime (a felony), but it failed to pass both houses.

S 120.08 Assault on a peace officer, police officer, fireman or emergency medical services professional.

A person is guilty of assault on a peace officer, police officer, fireman or emergency medical services professional when, with intent to
prevent a peace officer, police officer, a fireman, including a fireman acting as a paramedic or emergency medical technician administering first aid in the course of performance of duty as such fireman, or an emergency medical service paramedic or emergency medical service technician, from performing a lawful duty, he causes serious physical injury to such peace officer, police officer, fireman, paramedic or technician.

Assault on a peace officer, police officer, fireman or emergency medical services professional is a class C felony.

Where the fuck does it state a Correctional Facility Only?

 

[norton9478]

highlight the part that says SERIOUS PHYSICAL INJURY.

 

[smokehouse]

The whole looting thing needs to be set aside for a minute.

What can society do to change the feeling that black people have about being discriminated against? Constantly feeling like you have an uphill battle in the way your are perceived in the world sucks, and that's the overarching problem.

Looting has taken away from the real problems that need to be fixed. Looting will happen any chance it gets. It's not because of racism or injustice. It's because it can happen.

This is a two sided problem.

Like I said before, I was raised on welfare by two drug addicted parents. By all accounts, I should be a white trash loser at this point in my life.

I was taken in at the age of 13 by my friend's parents. They basically raised me at what was possibly the most important time in my life. They taught me how to work hard, how to save, how to be responsible. My parents felt (and still feel) that someone else should come fix their shit for them.

Much of impoverished black Americans feel this way. They are lazy and either want someone to fix their shit for them...or they want the easy $$. Either way, nothing is accomplished and with easy $$ comes violence. They aren't teaching their children to rise up, they are condemning their children to the very life they live (or worse).

If you want things to change, you must do it internally first...and prove it.

The FACT is this...if you want to live in society, then be part of it. If you want to dress in a manner and speak in a manner and carry yourself in a manner that is far from the norm, expect to be discriminated against.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that if I had neck tats, dressed like a white hood rat, spoke like one and had a red mowhawk...I would not have the lifestyle I do now...because I could not hold the job I currently have. Even if I was the exact same person I am now. Is this racism? No. If you are a black hood rat with your pants around your ass cheeks and you speak like a 3d grade dropout...expect to be discriminated against. It is you choice to look at talk that way...it is the employer's choice not to hire you.

People are discriminated against because of how they carry themselves all of the time...yet only with black people is it called racism. Take a clean cut girl and dress her in hooker clothes, see how she is treated. Take a college educated black man and dress him like a hood rat, see the reception he gets. If I started dressing like a hood rat next week, I'd be out of a job in less than a month (and that's being generous). I'll openly admit that I am weary of any hood rat out in public...black, white, brown...I don't trust any of them and I'm instantly on guard when they're around. This is learned behavior...I'm not racist, I'm observant.

I was talking to a co-worker earlier about discrimination ad an odd thing came up. Here in the midwest, a southern accent comes across as the person being stupid. I'm serious, dealing with slower speaking southerners automatically make me think the person is a bit slow in the head. This is just how it is. Once the conversation goes on I often realize it is just an accent but I admit to discriminating against someone based solely on an accent.

The first step that must happen in trash communities (of all color) is for them to learn to respect themselves and each other. Once (and IF) that happens, the changes would be immediate and noticeable.

 

[ReplicaX]

highlight the part that says SERIOUS PHYSICAL INJURY.

You are going to have to do better than that, and that was only from one section of NY law.

S 120.11 Aggravated assault upon a police officer or a peace officer.

A person is guilty of aggravated assault upon a police officer or a peace officer when, with intent to cause serious physical injury to a person whom he knows or reasonably should know to be a police officer or a peace officer engaged in the course of performing his official duties, he causes such injury by means of a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument.

Aggravated assault upon a police officer or a peace officer is a class B felony.

 

[norton9478]

causes such injury
deadly weapon or dangerous instrument

 

[ReplicaX]

causes such injury
deadly weapon or dangerous instrument

fist + aggressive manner

Please continue, you act like all this wasn't brought up in court.

 

[smokehouse]

Striking someone is "Illegal" for sure. It is a civil penalty (harassment in the second degree), not criminal. Roughly the equivalent of being drunk in public or having an open container. The key word is "serious physical injury".

Police get no special protection unless it is a correctional facility. There was an attempt to make harassment of a police officer a crime (a felony), but it failed to pass both houses.




Is that what they taught you in your CC class?

I don't have a CC permit...nor have I taken a class.( It's a side note, but my shooting "pedigree" involves being an ex soldier int he US Army, a firearms instructor and having shoot competitive shooting for over a decade.)

My comment about autopilot comes from having been in more fights than I care to admit to. As I stated before...I didn't have a good upbringing...I had a rough childhood and was a rough kid. Fights are instinctive and reactive...you don't think much, you act much. This is people perform drill after drill after drill. raw muscle memory and reactive skills...why? Because you don't think much when you're getting socked in the face, you react. Like I said, the even took 90 seconds start to finish. Get socked in the face by a big mungo and see how much critical thinking you do in the 90 seconds afterwards.

I'll add...most police had sub par firearms training. With burning through 50-100K rounds a year through my firearms (yes...I said 50-100 thousand, enough to cause never damage in my right hand)...I can guarantee you I've shot more rounds downrange than any officer I've ever personally met (and I've met/know quite a few). Cops aren't the cool-hand-luke people think they are...hell anymore, they bully lawyers in a uniform. Watch videos of cops drawing and firing in panic...there's a ton of the out there. Do they seem like cool headed professionals at the time? Rarely if ever.

 

[norton9478]

People are discriminated against because of how they carry themselves all of the time...yet only with black people is it called racism. Take a clean cut girl and dress her in hooker clothes, see how she is treated. Take a college educated black man and dress him like a hood rat, see the reception he gets. If I started dressing like a hood rat next week, I'd be out of a job in less than a month (and that's being generous). I'll openly admit that I am weary of any hood rat out in public...black, white, brown...I don't trust any of them and I'm instantly on guard when they're around. This is learned behavior...I'm not racist, I'm observant.
.

Put a white man in a sports jersey, he is a fan. Put a person of color in the same jersey, and he is a gang member.

And god forbid you take a photo with a black person while pointing at eachother.... Must be gang signs.

What I'm saying is, shit is different.

 

[norton9478]

fist + aggressive manner

Please continue, you act like all this wasn't brought up in court.

A fist is not a deadly weapon in this state.

 

[ReplicaX]

A fist is not a deadly weapon in this state.

For once on this forum how about you actually provide that info from a source. All you do is make assumptions most of the time.

Also do not forget to bring up every degree of assault as well.

 

[smokehouse]

Put a white man in a sports jersey, he is a fan. Put a person of color in the same jersey, and he is a gang member.

And god forbid you take a photo with a black person while pointing at eachother.... Must be gang signs.

What I'm saying is, shit is different.

I will be more than happy to debate things with you…but come on man, throw me a frickin' bone here. I've conversed with you enough to know you're smarter than that. This is one of the most limp generalizations I've yet to read in this discussion. A jersey is not a jersey and you know it…you put anyone in a jersey and they're a fan…they look like a thug…they'll be treated like one. I don't give a shit what color they are.