What happened to rimm_rs's SSVS preorder thread?!?

[RAINBOW PONY]

i wouldn't let my own members undercut me on my own board either. make a site for this....

 

[rimm_rs]

rimm_rs (Ryan Smith) agreed that MS5 would be the last group sale. This was explicitly explained to him by phone, email, and in person. He clearly remembered and understood this for KoF 2003 AES, and he surely remembered this for SSVS, but for whatever motive, he chose to test the waters.

After the MS5 group sale I could no longer publicly advertise discount pricing above a 6 piece purchase on the NeoStore, in order to avoid another situation like this arising. Now I’m surprised to see him at it again without even contacting me in advance to see if plans have changed (which they haven’t). The fact that he decided to go against our agreement and offer SSVS at a deep discount is false advertising. Bottom line, false advertising on NG.com is prohibited and thus his thread was deleted on spot (once it was brought to my attention).

I’ve been Mr. Nice guy way too long, and honestly, I don’t think any other logical business would allow competitors (other businesses) to advertise on their home turf (NG.com website in this case) to take away business. Most anyone else in my position would have deleted the rimm_rs account long ago, but this is finally being discussed in the mod forum now.

Please understand that SNKP would never allow their distributors to undercut each other, and as the exclusive North American distributor for the NeoGeo AES market, I also cannot allow JGN (Ryan Smith) to undercut the global retail market for SSVS. However, JGN could offer SSVS on his own neo store for the MSRP like everyone else.

You see, it’s only the MVS market that lacks a global pricing structure and involves frequent price warz. The AES market has been very stable for retailers with literally no undercutting during my experiences. Besides, the main reason for stability of new releases is because there just isn’t any room for undercutting due to the thin profit margin for video game software.

Shawn,

If you are going to delete my account because you offered a sale option and I chose to take it up, that is your right.

I would tell you that it looks rather petty.

What rule was broken?

Where EVEr have I said Neostore or you personally are not A+?

Still it is your call, andI would hope you recognize the situation: you'd be banning someone in spite of their adhereance to you site's rules.

I do not recall you saying anything to me and search as I might I do not have any e-mails from you. Not calling you a liar, just saying I don't have anything to this effect and no conversations comes to mind (my memory is terrible, so again I am not callingyou a liar, just saying nothign comes to mind). I do remember you saying you would modify your policies; andd the changing form lisitng the bulk rates to the e-mailing for rates is a major change and fits the bill of what you said you would do. I don't see the issue you modified the way you did things.

Also, if you read the thread I promised the 6 piece pricing which even you just said in the above is legit. I did e-mail you the day I started the thread about pricing. You knew it was up because I said I was looking for pricing. I still have it if you want it resent.

This is the first time I can recall of you saying anything to me. The thread is gone and that is that. I did not bitch and scream here, I did ask that you hook up the people already in line and call that good.

I am trying to help my store and yours live side by side that is wh I do not sell new releases. I am staying away fromyour turn as a sign of respect.

As for KOF 2003 and SSV, people did e-mail me about those and I turn them down b/c i only do preorders for games I myself want to play. I can get a few names of people to back that statement.

Best,

Ryan

 

[SNKJorge]

Why not cut the Neo Selling forum then? That's undercutting Shawn (who does sell used AES from time to time) by quite a bit. I know for a fact that the $105 you sold me KoF 98 would be less than what he'd sell it at.

People might see this different than I do, but I see a double standard.


-AG

This is a new release we're talking about here though. Not KOF'98. Also
if people sell their own games on the market forums it does no harm, that's
why they were created in the first place. Neostore is separate from this site.

 

[SNKJorge]

i wouldn't let my own members undercut me on my own board either. make a site for this....

Ditto. It's common sense.
I have nothing against Ryan either, but that's the truth.

 

[drone9]

but in the end wouldn't it have meant more sales for Shawn?

 

[rimm_rs]

Couldn't have said it any better myself. Ryan, you're a good seller but if you can't understand this then you truly are clueless.

You use his forums on a daily basis, then try to undercut his profit margin on his own games to boost your rep here In the true spirit of the bulk order, why not pre-purchase 12 copies then offer them lower on your competing neo website JGN?

To the rest of you: I'm all for a cheaper deal but if a $20 discount is what was holding you back, then I guess you don't really want the game anyways. Pick it up used in 2-3 months if thats what ya want. Also, think of how much time you spend on of these forums and how entertaining it is. Certainly you can support the host.

Droid

Tom,

Where have I mentionedmy site here?

I don't sell in the forums. I have no sig with my site on it. I do not even mention my site by name.

The copies of SSVS were not being sent to my store, they were going direct to users at a 0% profit. I have done this before and my motives are the same: to hook people up.

I could have done it by buying and then resellingon my site at 0%, but what is the difference? I will tell you, people then associate my site with new software and that is not my business. That is Shawn's business and I do not want to invade his turf.

As for undercutting him, please look at the forums, your "ultra mint" $105 KOF 98 is a lot less than the Near Mint $178 KOF 98 at Neostore:

http://www.neostore.com/detail.asp?ProductID=737

Please od not say that Neostore and NG are seperate; people whom know of one know of the other.

You can't have it both ways.

Look, read my first post, I said it correctly, this is Shawn's site and if he does not want the preorder thread, then it does not have to be here.

Ryan

 

[Adam Gallant]

So he's undercutting Shawn using his own sale scale? The one Shawn made? For people to use?


*sniff sniff* I smell a load of BS. If rimm_rs was making profit off this, sure. But he isn't. Neither are the 12 people who lined up for it. And people who already pre-ordered weren't allowed to enter into it. That's rather avoiding undercutting actually.


Wow. I rarely get so turned off against a retail place.


-AG

 

[rimm_rs]

So he's undercutting Shawn using his own sale scale? The one Shawn made? For people to use?


*sniff sniff* I smell a load of BS. If rimm_rs was making profit off this, sure. But he isn't. Neither are the 12 people who lined up for it. And people who already pre-ordered weren't allowed to enter into it. That's rather avoiding undercutting actually.


Wow. I rarely get so turned off against a retail place.


-AG

Were I trying to profit, I would buy them and then resell them. People seem to forget I AM A GAMER, I COLLECT NEO GEO GAMES AND LOVE THE HOBBY.

There is a lot more to life than money and the idea of interacting with fellow games was one I liked; hence the thread.

 

[rimm_rs]

i wouldn't let my own members undercut me on my own board either. make a site for this....

Then don't offer the option or if you do say "dealers only".

Again, as I have said over and over, I am notmad and this is Shawn's site. He can do what he wants.

 

[droid]

Why not cut the Neo Selling forum then? That's undercutting Shawn (who does sell used AES from time to time) by quite a bit. I know for a fact that the $105 you sold me KoF 98 would be less than what he'd sell it at.

The selling forum deals with used games being sold by individuals aka the ppl that populate the forums as a favor to the neo community. Not by a someone such as Rimm_rs, who abuses this privelege to buy games on the seller's forum to open up a competing neo-store website (aka JGN) or try to take advantage of the neo-store selling bulk discount selling policies to undercut the neo-store on brand new games that Shawn forks up the cash to help get released.

Ask yourself what's Rimm_rs motivation? to help the community? I personally think its to boost his rep here which took a beating a few months back when JGN opened and we had the spam & cut & paste fiasco. Now that Shawn is made to look like the bad guy for doing what any other business would do, Rimm_rs looks to get a PR boost for being the "champion" of the neo-community.

As for KoF98, I'm selling it as an individual and taking a loss on that game. True its below what the neo-store offers it at, but I've supported the neo-store with many past purchases as well as (1) SS5S pre-order at the MSRP. The Sellers forums are a privelege to us. But if it continues to get blatantly abused, whats the incentive for Shawn to keep it around?

As a side note about KoF98, Rimm_rs offered to buy it from me last week at the price I was asking, probably to resell, but i decided not hold off for a legit neo buyer instead of supporting JGN.

Droid

 

[evil wasabi]

It looks like lots of you enjoy a good monopoly.

 

[rimm_rs]

Ask yourself what's Rimm_rs motivation? to help the community? I personally think its to boost his rep here which took a beating a few months back when JGN opened and we had the spam & cut & paste fiasco. Now that Shawn is made to look like the bad guy for doing what any other business would do, Rimm_rs looks to get a PR boost for being the "champion" of the neo-community.

As a side note about KoF98, Rimm_rs offered to buy it from me last week at the price I was asking, probably to resell, but i decided not hold off for a legit neo buyer instead of supporting JGN.

Two points-

#1. What was my motive with the MS5 buy? I had no store then. I made no money then. What would have changed here? I would have made no money now. As for the PR boost thing, if you do anythign positive, that woudl help. In other words, of course there's be a PR boost. That's obvious. Woudl I expect people to buy the game and then thingk I'm a dick? Of course not. Corny as it sounds I did MS5 for the game, I was trying to do SSVS for the game. geez, don't be so cynical.

#2. I sell KOF98 game for $109.99-$119.99 on my site. WIth $6 in PP fees, you can rest assurred I make more than $3-13 on this game. You copy was ultra mint, my personal copy if Mint-. I am a collector as you well know- an anal collector. Do I need to connect the dots further?

 

[Adam Gallant]

As for KoF98, I'm selling it as an individual and taking a loss on that game. True its below what the neo-store offers it at, but I've supported the neo-store with many past purchases as well as (1) SS5S pre-order at the MSRP. The Sellers forums are a privelege to us. But if it continues to get blatantly abused, whats the incentive for Shawn to keep it around?

There is none, there is NO reason for him to have it on this site. Just like there is NO reason for him to do bulk pricing. But he does both. I suspect bulk pricing's going to go away.

Won't shock me if the Neo Selling forum does as well. I agree with lithy, I smell monopoly. Nice knowing you Market forum.


EDIT: This will be my last post in this entirely retarded episode. Shawn lost a potential customer in me for certain, a damn shame as he has some REAL nice pocket stuff I need. I'm sorry, but my concience won't allow me to take a store feeding it's customers total bullshit.


-AG

 

[SNKJorge]

Won't shock me if the Neo Selling forum does as well. I agree with lithy, I smell monopoly. Nice knowing you Market forum.


-AG

That's not going to happen. Come on people, have some common sense.
It's way different to be selling on the selling forum as an individual normal
forum member, than to be doing the purchase bulk from the neostore.

 

[Shawn]

I do not recall you saying anything to me and search as I might I do not have any e-mails from you. Not calling you a liar, just saying I don't have anything to this effect and no conversations comes to mind (my memory is terrible, so again I am not callingyou a liar, just saying nothign comes to mind).

Luckily, I've been sober all my life and I do remember telling you about my disaproval of your MS5 preorder thread. I honored the MS5 group buy only, and you knew better not to try and repeat the past.

Remembering our phone conversations and talks in person may not be sufficient proof since you claim to have forgotten them, so here is my initial email word for word in it's original form (just like the pages you ripped from the NeoStore for JGN):

------------------------------------

From: <sales@neo-geo.com>
To: "Ryan Smith" <rimm@charter.net>
Subject: Re: MS5 preorders
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:47:15 -0500

Hello Ryan,

Half that list "were" my customers. Quite depressing. Yes, technically still
buying from me, through you, but I have already paid in advance, in full,
for this production.

Retailers who have their orders drop shipped have already paid a couple
weeks ago, in full, you see. However, now my retail business for MS5 is
suffering considerably, pretty much dead. Honest to God, this is the worst
my preorders have been for any official SNK home release, and this is the
11th release I've handled. In the past, individual members would rally 5 to
7 pieces, never 12 or more. So this was not a problem at all. If you are
looking to get 40 preorders, but not pay until release, then this is a big
issue.

That means you are doing an outstanding job in rallying preorders, but I am
losing the bulk of my loyal customers and it is quite frustrating. I can't
blame them, as I would do the same from a consumer standpoint. Why pay $349
when you can pay $299 or less. Looks like we need to talk on the phone, or
figure something out. Immediate payment for 40+ pieces would help, however
your #'s exceed that of any retailers in the USA. If you continue to solicit
on NG.com, this ruins the NeoStore's retail business as you realize now. Let
me know.

1.rimm_rs, 2 copies JP
2. Electroman, 1 copy US
3. Snooptalian, 1 copy US
4. Baseball-Star, 1 copy US
5. Gunrock46, 1 copy US
6. Bulletnyourass, 1 copy US
7. DM Hawkmoon, 1 copy US
8. hupplark_39, 1 copy US
9. Shining Kooksu, 1 copy US
10. ajk1080, 1 copy JP
11. Neo Fan, 1 copy US
12. Dozer81, 1 copy JP
13. ajsega, 1 copy US
14. 5thlion5thlion, 1 copy JP
15. Kid Aphex, 1 copy JP
16. whiterice, 1 copy US
17. spacerangerjonny, 1 copy JP
18. Hobgoblin, 1 copy JP
19. SNKChef, 1 copy JP
20. wjw123, 1 copy US, PAID
21. Prefect, 1 copy US
22. Cavera, 1 copy US
23. Scanline, 1 copy, US
24. redrum666, 1 copy US
25. 60bucks, 1 copy US
26. xpertgamer, 1 copy US
27. Big Bruno, 1 copy US

 

[RAINBOW PONY]

shawn pays a shitload of money for these releases, and some people wanna be cheap and save 30 bucks by undercutting? don't cry when he stops trying to bring games over.... i would limit those discounts to dealers ONLY, like every other business does.

 

[Chicago Cheeseburgler Crew]

Come on people, have some common sense.

I think you're asking for too much here, tooshort.

 

[rimm_rs]

@Shawn-

Hey, hey the sober thing isn't cool, no need to toss insults. You are above name calling.

And that fact is, you let the MS5 order go through, you did not kill it dead. There was no "stop" order in there, no statement of do not do this in the future. You said you were unhappy about it, but it went through. This is consistent with what i have been saying.

In one conversation we both agreed that you said you would be changing the way bulk orders were handled. And you did.

You changed the way you did bulk orders from listing on the site to an e-mail system, as mentioned before you made a change and as far as I recall that was what you said you were going to do. Why not simply stipulate, "dealers only"?

You need to remember that in this very thread, I have not been anything but supportive of this being your site.

Look, I don't want to step on anyone's toes, the thread is gone and I am now aware of your policies and you have clearly told me about them.

I ask everone here to please understand that this mistake was a lot of things and Shawn is NOT a bad guy.

I want to be on good terms with you, and regret that this was not to your liking. I thought I was helping sunce many of the people were not gonna buy until the price dropped (which might have been months). I hope you don't falut me for that.

 

[BIG BEAR]

This is a very complex situation but not one that would warrant deleting Ryan's account,especially if you look at it from different angles which I won't get into because the only downside I see is that a request was ignored or misundertood.
The thread has been deleted and the request is now understood as a demand.
No reason for anybody to get upset and stop doing business,blah..blah..blah.
-BB

 

[Shawn]

Hey, hey the sober thing isn't cool, no need to toss insults. You are above name calling.

I said I’ve been sober all my life, that’s all. Assume what you will, but I wasn’t commenting about your past or current habits. Contrary to your accusation, if you read the context of my posts more closely, I’m implying repeatedly that you actually do remember, and that you do know better (despite your claim of suffering from poor memory).

 

[SHO]

Although what ryan doing is cool for the gamers, but it does hurt shawns wallet and shawn has brought as many releases and stocked game that has not been selling very well like kof 01, 02

this is shawn's site, we use it for free, i have no complain what shawn decide to do on his own site.

 

[drone9]

still, it certainly wouldn't have hurt to write a final comment and than lock the thread.
but simply deleting it...

 

[rimm_rs]

This is a very complex situation but not one that would warrant deleting Ryan's account,especially if you look at it from different angles which I won't get into because the only downside I see is that a request was ignored or misundertood.
The thread has been deleted and the request is now understood as a demand.
No reason for anybody to get upset and stop doing business,blah..blah..blah.
-BB

I agree.

There is no conspiracy here by either side.

Shawn did not do everythign correctly, I misunderstood him. I did not do everything correctly, he misunderstood me.

At this point, we are both clear, and I would liek to have good rleations. This is just a misundersrtanding that has worked itself out.

 

[rimm_rs]

I said I’ve been sober all my life, that’s all. Assume what you will, but I wasn’t commenting about your past or current habits. Contrary to your accusation, if you read the context of my posts more closely, I’m implying repeatedly that you actually do remember, and that you do know better (despite your claim of suffering from poor memory).

Fine enough, I respect, but do not agree with your opinion. Are you going to be a bit angry at me forever or can we patch this up and be cool? I prefer the latter idea.

I am feeling badly here, I thoughI was doing something were everyone won and it turns to this.

 

[Shawn]

still, it certainly wouldn't have hurt to write a final comment and than lock the thread.
but simply deleting it...

I agree, and that was my intentions. I posted this in the mod forum at 2 AM this morning concerning rimm_rs's preorder thread to let the mods know exactly what was going on:

"I totally meant to do a soft delete and leave a redirect but goofed since I was not familiar with this feature,"

Sorry about that! Since the upgrade to VB 3.0 I have not been moderating the forums as much as I should be. I don't even recall banning anyone this year (rimm_rs would seriously be my first for '04). We are voting on rimm_rs, and majority will rule. If mods say he should stay, then so be it.