WATCHMEN - TOMORROW - JIZZ PANTS

[PleaseKillMeNow]

Fun Fact: the song was actually written by Smashing Pumpkins for the Batman & Robin soundtrack (yikes!) --thankfully it got attached to a much better movie than that.

It's actually on the B&R soundtrack, as well as the alternate End is the Beginning is the End.

 

[SouthtownKid]

It's actually on the B&R soundtrack, as well as the alternate End is the Beginning is the End.

I like that song and that movie.

 

[Loopz]

I saw it, with little to no knowledge of the graphic novel, and I thought it was really well done and entertaining as fuck. Alt-history Vietnam win and five-term Nixon was ace. I mean, anything that manages to be that entertaining over a 3-hour span must be doing something right.

I also have to say, I like it when a movie is R-rated and fucking MEANS it.

 

[PleaseKillMeNow]

Didn't you hear Bobak?

Because you didn't read the book, you didn't like the movie. That's that.

He went to film school.

 

[thirdkind]

Didn't you hear Bobak?

Because you didn't read the book, you didn't like the movie. That's that.

He went to film school.

Also, The Wrestler is flawed.

Flawed.

 

[aria]

It's actually on the B&R soundtrack, as well as the alternate End is the Beginning is the End.

I see now my sentence could've been read to say that it was never on the soundtrack, that's not how it was meant.

I like that song and that movie.

First midichlorians, now this?

 

[SouthtownKid]

First midichlorians, now this?

As a little kid, I loved watching reruns of the Adam West Batman tv show. I still like watching them when I happen to see one on, and I really wish Fox could iron out the legal problems holding them back from releasing the series on DVD.

In the meantime, all we have is the '60s movie starring Adam West and Burt Ward which is just as hilarious as the series. And we have the 1997 movie, Batman and Robin.

I understand that for people wanting a serious Batman movie, or a halfway serious movie in general, that Batman and Robin is a complete travesty. I get that. But for me, it plays like a lost episode of the Adam West series. It's completely outlandish.

It carries over so many elements from the old tv show (it would take more time than I want to spend to list them all), and I really believe that if you go in with the mindset of taking Clooney as a stand-in for Adam West, the movie is enjoyable. It doesn't have any moment that is as great as, "Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb," but it has a couple noble attempts.

The funny thing is, I avoided it in the theater. I'd heard all the terrible things, and I do consider Batman Forever one of the worst movies I've ever seen, so I was in no rush to give Batman and Robin a shot. I don't know... it's possible that if I had actually spent money to see the movie in the theater, I'd be a lot less forgiving of it. But I finally broke down a few years later and used a rental on it.

I expected to hate it, but when I saw them throwing in the Dutch angles and then the Bat-ice skates popped out of the characters' shoes, I thought, "Holy shit...I see what they're doing here..." And look at that cheesy plant death-trap thing. That thing is STRAIGHT out of the Adam West show. It's not even any more convincing than something from that show that might have cost $5 to throw together.

The one complaint I have of the movie is that they somehow managed--against all odds--to make Uma Thurman and the character of Poison Ivy almost completely sexless, when I really would have enjoyed a sexpot performance like Julie Newmar as Catwoman. Real missed opportunity.

So yeah, I understand that if you're the kind of person that wants to take Batman seriously, or if you are an uptight comic nerd that feels outrage at any change from the comics or anything that takes the piss out of comics, you will hate this movie. And I understand that what is appealing to audiences of the 1960s and '70s is not necessarily going play to modern audiences. But I have probably never enjoyed any version of Batman more than I did the Adam West show when I was 5, so I'm cool with it.

 

[aria]

As a little kid, I loved watching reruns of the Adam West Batman tv show. I still like watching them when I happen to see one on, and I really wish Fox could iron out the legal problems holding them back from releasing the series on DVD.

In the meantime, all we have is the '60s movie starring Adam West and Burt Ward which is just as hilarious as the series. And we have the 1997 movie, Batman and Robin.

I understand that for people wanting a serious Batman movie, or a halfway serious movie in general, that Batman and Robin is a complete travesty. I get that. But for me, it plays like a lost episode of the Adam West series. It's completely outlandish.

It carries over so many elements from the old tv show (it would take more time than I want to spend to list them all), and I really believe that if you go in with the mindset of taking Clooney as a stand-in for Adam West, the movie is enjoyable. It doesn't have any moment that is as great as, "Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb," but it has a couple noble attempts.

The funny thing is, I avoided it in the theater. I'd heard all the terrible things, and I do consider Batman Forever one of the worst movies I've ever seen, so I was in no rush to give Batman and Robin a shot. I don't know... it's possible that if I had actually spent money to see the movie in the theater, I'd be a lot less forgiving of it. But I finally broke down a few years later and used a rental on it.

I expected to hate it, but when I saw them throwing in the Dutch angles and then the Bat-ice skates popped out of the characters' shoes, I thought, "Holy shit...I see what they're doing here..." And look at that cheesy plant death-trap thing. That thing is STRAIGHT out of the Adam West show. It's not even any more convincing than something from that show that might have cost $5 to throw together.

The one complaint I have of the movie is that they somehow managed--against all odds--to make Uma Thurman and the character of Poison Ivy almost completely sexless, when I really would have enjoyed a sexpot performance like Julie Newmar as Catwoman. Real missed opportunity.

So yeah, I understand that if you're the kind of person that wants to take Batman seriously, or if you are an uptight comic nerd that feels outrage at any change from the comics or anything that takes the piss out of comics, you will hate this movie. And I understand that what is appealing to audiences of the 1960s and '70s is not necessarily going play to modern audiences. But I have probably never enjoyed any version of Batman more than I did the Adam West show when I was 5, so I'm cool with it.

I'm not particularly into comics, and I can appreciate a good bad movie (like the Adam West Batman movie), but I saw this the summer before college with a bunch of classmates at the midnight show on Thursday/Friday night --we were all hoping for mindless fun-- and I remember it sounded like a funeral when we left the theater... sort of a "we stayed up for this?"

Legitimize it anyway you want, it was a terrible movie. Unless you were into neon Coolio or the pudgy, inept version of Alicia Silverstone.

Even the Batman animated series couldn't resist making fun of that steaming pile of fail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oewxJmD9TxM

Its hard to defend a film that even the filmmaker admits was a mess that he would've liked to amend.

There's a reason it temporarily killed the film franchise, and it wasn't because people expected something serious. They just expected something good.

 

[SouthtownKid]

I'm not particularly into comics, and I can appreciate a good bad movie (like the Adam West Batman movie), but I saw this the summer before college with a bunch of classmates at the midnight show on Thursday/Friday night --we were all hoping for mindless fun-- and I remember it sounded like a funeral when we left the theater... sort of a "we stayed up for this?"

Legitimize it anyway you want, it was a terrible movie.

I never said it wasn't. The '60s movie isn't particularly good, either. But it is fun.

Bobak, your thinking is too rigid. You're too inflexible. And if you stayed up until midnight to see this movie after probably having seen Batman Forever at some point, I've got no fucking sympathy for you or your friends.

Batman and Robin is camp like the old tv show. There's no fucking surprise that 17/18 year-olds in the mid-1990s would hate it. Schumacher (who I don't think is a great director, even on movies the public liked) tragically and spectacularly misjudged the audience for a '90s Batman movie. Not completely unlike Singer misjudging a 2000s Superman audience.

But 18 year-olds seeing it for the first time would hate the old Batman tv show, too. They'd be too old to take it seriously as a straight super-hero adventure show, while too young and insecure in their own coolness to allow themselves to enjoy the campy surreality. Especially in a pack of peers.

 

[GregN]

He went to film school.

He lived in CA, close enough.

 

[Lagduf]

Saw the movie, didn't like it. Will add more comments later.

 

[genjiglove]

Plus, he's a psychotic, little ultra-right wing moral absolutist -- Ditko's love letter to Ayn Rand, the Question, cranked up to 15. You're not supposed to look up to him. There's a reason he sent his journal to the New Frontiersman... because that's the paper Rorschach reads and takes seriously. He's also a very scared, little man under the mask. Terrified of women and sex. More than once in the book, he refers to anyone who has sex as a whore, and he ranks "fornicators" right up there with murderers.

I agree it's hard not to like the character, but if you can relate to him, please get help.

Heh, I pretty much said the same thing to a friend of mine who told me his favorite character was Rorschach. The great thing is he is a very likable character but if you met someone like him in real life you'd stay very far away from him.

 

[Marek]

Looking back this movie is not really is good as I thought walking out of the theater. Its flaws have become more and more obvious and annoying.

I still enjoyed it, and will watch it again before the extra scenes come out.

 

[SouthtownKid]

I still haven't had a chance to see this. Almost made it Wednesday but the wife had to work. With the amount of box office drop-off last weekend, they may have already removed it from the good theaters. If so, I guess I'll wait for dvd.

 

[Poonman]

That downloadable game..is it supposed to be a partial release like GT5 prologue?
It looks great but plays like shit from the looks of it.

Maybe they break it up into volumes or something...like The Comedian and Dr. Manhattan fighting in Vietnam for the next one I guess...

Either way it seems even more ill-conceived than the movie.

 

[aria]

I never said it wasn't. The '60s movie isn't particularly good, either. But it is fun.

Bobak, your thinking is too rigid. You're too inflexible. And if you stayed up until midnight to see this movie after probably having seen Batman Forever at some point, I've got no fucking sympathy for you or your friends.

Batman and Robin is camp like the old tv show. There's no fucking surprise that 17/18 year-olds in the mid-1990s would hate it. Schumacher (who I don't think is a great director, even on movies the public liked) tragically and spectacularly misjudged the audience for a '90s Batman movie. Not completely unlike Singer misjudging a 2000s Superman audience.

But 18 year-olds seeing it for the first time would hate the old Batman tv show, too. They'd be too old to take it seriously as a straight super-hero adventure show, while too young and insecure in their own coolness to allow themselves to enjoy the campy surreality. Especially in a pack of peers.

Arnold was the best thing about that movie, and that's because he can do hammy material. That's why he's a natural fit as the governor. There was one guy in our group who liked it, but he was the Comic Book Guy in better shape, to him, it was "just like the comic" --which pretty much sold me off comics for the duration of college.

I don't know what context you saw that movie, all I can think of is that its associated with some awesome sexual experience...

Sort of a:

Oh, I remember this scene with Uma's terrible performance as Poison Ivy and her rollerskaters and that phoned in performance by fat-Silverstone...and I...

 

[HeartlessNinny]

I can see why its respected, but I just don't really care for it as a whole.

Fair enough.

We disagree on a lot of different issues, but here...

I totally agree. Watchmen deserves the respect and recognition it gets. I read the whole thing in about 6 hours, but I thoroughly enjoyed it not only for the story but the symbolism as well.

I'm not sure whether I like it more than Citizen Kane, however...

Oh, I definitely like Kane better myself. Just figured it was a good go-to comparison for a medium definer.

I'm still waiting to see this as I've been a bit ill and tired to go out on a weekday. However, one thing that has irked me since this was announced is the fact that DC actually decided to whore this out to the big screen. No matter how you put it, it is impossible to squeeze this into anything less than 6 hours (30 mins per episode). Ideally, this would have rocked big time had somebody commissioned a 12 hour mini-series on HBO or Sho.

Sincerely,

Mikhail

I actually kind of disagree. I don't think a miniseries would be any better for two reasons:

First, the budget would be significantly lower than for a movie, and a cheap-looking Watchmen would be a disaster.

Second, Watchmen is a comic, and it's brilliant as a comic. Changing the medium is just asking for trouble. To use the Kane example again, well, that film probably would lose most (if not all) of its genius if you made it into a novel. Same thing with Watchmen — it does things that work well as a comic. It's one of its greatest strengths.

 

[Late]

Why do people think of Watchmen as the be-all and end-all of comics?

Seriously, because they have never been exposed to anything better.

Me, I think Alan Moore is koll when he wants to be i.e Hellraiser.

But the comic is nothing but a face lift on crap superhero comics, one cannot polish a turd after all. They're still lame as hell.

on topic: the book was meh, not going to see the movie.

 

[NeoSneth]

how does the book end ?

so far most of your critical points have been pretty petty, and an enjoyable read. I got about 3/4 of the way through the books on my last flight, but i have no idea how the books end.

 

[PleaseKillMeNow]

"just like the comic"

I think Schumacher said something along the lines of, "I want to make it a comic book movie, with emphasis on comic."

Still, it was pretty bad.

I'd watch and enjoy it to this day, though. One of the things I like about the whole Batman franchise is that, like other DC heroes, he's been around so long that so many people have come and put their own personal spin on the character.

 

[SouthtownKid]

There was one guy in our group who liked it, but he was the Comic Book Guy in better shape, to him, it was "just like the comic" --which pretty much sold me off comics for the duration of college.

That movie is nothing like the comic. There is no one in this world -- NO ONE -- who hates that movie more than comic fans. Nothing like the comic as it has ever existed during our lifetimes. You think you dislike the movie, but just go to a comic book forum and see what the reaction is there. The term "nerd rage" gets thrown around a lot, but it almost boils over to the point of violence with this movie and most comic fans.

Comic fans in general hate anything that makes comic books look stupid, silly, and childish, because they are so hyper-sensitive of the perception that they must functionally retarded for still liking comics at an adult age. And Batman and Robin had stupid, silly, and childish cranked up to 11.

On the other hand, it's also the reason comic fans worship anything like Watchmen that gains any kind of mainstream acclaim, and (as good as Watchmen is) try to build it into something more than it actually is. Is it one of the best super-hero comics ever written? Probably. Does it deserve to be ranked in the top 100 novels of all-time? Good Lord, no. Anyone who thinks it does, please for the love of Buddha, get a library card. Don't get me wrong, I really, really enjoyed Watchmen the comic, but it's not even the best comic I've ever read, much less one of the best books in general.

 

[Marek]

I just saw a commercial for the Black Freighter animated movie that is about to go on sale. I had no idea they were planning to do it separately.

They are saying it 'completes the watchmen experience' but I don't see how that is possible unless the directors cut has it spliced into the regular film with some bonus transition scenes of the newstand guy and the reader. ...Which will never happen.

 

[evil wasabi]

That movie is nothing like the comic. There is no one in this world -- NO ONE -- who hates that movie more than comic fans. Nothing like the comic as it has ever existed during our lifetimes. You think you dislike the movie, but just go to a comic book forum and see what the reaction is there. The term "nerd rage" gets thrown around a lot, but it almost boils over to the point of violence with this movie and most comic fans.

Comic fans in general hate anything that makes comic books look stupid, silly, and childish, because they are so hyper-sensitive of the perception that they must functionally retarded for still liking comics at an adult age. And Batman and Robin had stupid, silly, and childish cranked up to 11.

To be fair, comic fans were against the watchmen movie as soon as it was announced, and so many of them were sick of hearing fanboys talk about watchmen even before the movie was announced. The subject got too much negative attention (eg., attention from people that comic book fans don't want to associate with)

I still haven't seen the movie. Want to, but just haven't gotten around to it.

 

[SPINMASTER X]

Was a fan of the comic, saw the movie last Friday and I was pleased. Gosh I wanted to cry at the end.

I was very impressed with the actor who portrayed Rorschach.

 

[SouthtownKid]

To be fair, comic fans were against the watchmen movie as soon as it was announced, and so many of them were sick of hearing fanboys talk about watchmen even before the movie was announced. The subject got too much negative attention (eg., attention from people that comic book fans don't want to associate with)

I still haven't seen the movie. Want to, but just haven't gotten around to it.

Actually, I was talking about the 1997 opus, Batman and Robin, in that post.

From what I've heard, the Watchmen movie is pretty close to the comic; as close as it was ever likely to be. I haven't seen it yet, either. Been planning to and almost made it a couple times last week, but work keeps coming up.