US peeps, what's your stance on REAL IDs?

[slerch666]

You can read a small FAQ on the REAL ID cards here.

I think this is some scary shit. Basically if they put RFID on the card and then install RFID readers throughout the US, they can track where you go and when. They can potentially track what you buy and when you buy it.

This honestly sounds like something a COMMUNIST govt would do, and I don't see China or NK or Cuba instituting this type of shit.

So now I will have to renew my driver's license again. When I do, I have to supply a form of photo id (will my expired driver's license work? If not, I'm screwed), proof of birth, my SSN and the OK from the SS office I'm legit. So I've lived in the US for 26 yrs and a month (to the day) and now they question who I am? I was able to get an education, a drivers license and a job, but now that they think we are all terrorists, this is all meaningless.

I fucking hate this current administration with a passion. I wish for the assholes who tacked this onto an Iraq spending bill to have their testicle put in a vice, skin peeled off of their nuts and slow burned with matches.

 

[Neo Rasa]

Your expired license should count just fine.

It's great in New Jersey. If you're an illegal alien you actually need NO ID at all and they cannot force you to show ID, but for a US citizen to renew a license they have to bring in a tax return, old license, SS card, and birth certificate.


I think this is some scary shit. Basically if they put RFID on the card and then install RFID readers throughout the US, they can track where you go and when. They can potentially track what you buy and when you buy it.

This sort of tracking has already been done for years. The only difference is that until now it was done whenever you picked up a discount card for Stop 'N Shop, a Gamestop or EB card, Rewards membership at Blockbuster when that was big, etc.

The point has been reached now where the number of people who have these at many chain stores outweigh the unique customers that don't.

If you buy something with a check, credit or debit card, your receipt has the name of the store, the time of the transaction, what was in it and the price. You think the store throws out their copy?

Whether you'd rather see this information in the hands of private companies, the government, or both is the only sticking point that can exist here.

 

[JHendrix]

Supposedly, though I don't have a link on this, the Senate version of the bill has those parts struck out, so no RFID.

RFID = Security Nightmare, reguardless of privacy and big brother concerns, the Security problems it has could easily lead to another 9/11 or worse.

I'm hoping that my "Supposedly" part of this is true.

But yeah, the whole RFID thing is quite scarry, but I really wouldn't be too crazy about it since if you are worried about the "Big Brother" aspect of it all, throwing the card in a metal pocket/sleave will negate the RFID effects, worst case you hook a small battery to the metal sleave to ground it and you've negated the field it puts out.

That's why I'm more worried about the security hole aspect of it than the big brother stuff. If you want to hide it you can, but what's stopping a terrorist or ID theif from walking into a crowd with a reciever and nabbing 20-30 of these ID's info and making their own good counterfiet ID with the RFID embedded allowing them access to planes and stuff?

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

 

[Neo Rasa]

That's why they should use nasal implants instead like in Total Recall.

 

[slerch666]

That's why they should use nasal implants instead like in Total Recall.

If we had GWB at the helm another 4 yrs, this method wouldn't surprise me at all.

USSA all the way!

 

[Lovecraft0110]

I think this is some scary shit. Basically if they put RFID on the card and then install RFID readers throughout the US, they can track where you go and when. They can potentially track what you buy and when you buy it.

LOL, aren't you guys exaggerating a BIT? An ID card is one thing. Having RFID implemented on it is another matter entirely.

This honestly sounds like something a COMMUNIST govt would do, and I don't see China or NK or Cuba instituting this type of shit.

For your information, 'This type of shit' has been a fact of life for decades in countries like Germany, France or Spain. All of them hardly comparable to North Korea, methinks. Have we had problems with ID cards? Never. Evil governmental conspiracies? Remote tracking devices coupled with miniaturized explosives? Ahem...no.

So now I will have to renew my driver's license again. When I do, I have to supply a form of photo id (will my expired driver's license work? If not, I'm screwed), proof of birth, my SSN and the OK from the SS office I'm legit. So I've lived in the US for 26 yrs and a month (to the day) and now they question who I am? I was able to get an education, a drivers license and a job, but now that they think we are all terrorists, this is all meaningless.

Lol so much work! And yes, without an ID card, in the European countries mentioned before, you are basically a non-entity. Which is good: counterfeiting an ID card is not as easy as it may seem. Ergo more security.

 

[slerch666]

LOL, aren't you guys exaggerating a BIT? An ID card is one thing. Having RFID implemented on it is another matter entirely.

RFID IS a real possibilty. Basically the Dept of Homeland Security can add and remove things as they see fit, and one of the things they want is the capability to read data off the card or whatever. RFID is what they are currently eyeing for the cards.

As far as other countries doing national IDs, that's all well and good, but do they have the ability to read things off it electronically? I don't mind a barcode they can scan, since they need something to contact the card. With RFID basically as long as you are in range you can be read without even taking the card out of your wallet. THAT is what concerns me.

I don't mind a national ID card. If it's used as a driver's license or whatever, I mean shit, I already cary one of those. Carrying my "national ID" instead wouldn't be a problem. It's the whole tracing thing that bothers me. And it's only tracing with RFID that really bothers me. At least if someone stole my card and it had to be "swiped" through a card reader, hopefully the fucker would look at the picture ID and realize it's not me.

And then imagine some hackers designing an RFID reader to harvest the data on the people who walk by. They could steal your SSN if it's included, your name, your address and so on. They can now apply for a loan online, since that's all most places ask for. Identity theft is a big problem now, and could potentially be worse because it could be easier to accomplish.

And as far as using discount cards to shop, I don't use them. I do use my credit card however, but unlike a national ID card, I'm not FORCED to use it or own it.

 

[RAINBOW PONY]

reminds me of the movie minority report.

 

[Mouse_Master]

OK,

Federally mandated uniform ID Card, I think that is a good idea. You come up with a uniform format for the cards, and the states can add their seals or whatever, poof, you have a 'standard' drivers license/federal ID, so the people who look at them can have 1 point of reference instead of questioning it. An America West rep in Arizona swore my MD license was fake because of the way it was put together.

Having the DMVs/MVAs of the US do it, bad idea. I have already seen firsthand how incompetent MD's MVA is with providing only 2 pieces of information (when the wife moved to MD from IN, she had to get a new license, they said her IN license was a fake, and her birth certificate was a phony, took 3 tries, and some supervisors, phone calls, etc, to get it straight.)

The thing is, it still will not 'prevent' anyone from getting ahold of forgeries. Hell, the DMV in DC had some employees who were making illegal IDs at work, estimated they made about 3000 of them.

 

[syringe]

It's somewhat scary but I can't help but think that some people are being a little alarmist about the entire thing.

The Patriot Act never did lead to those gulags in Alaska did it?

 

[Lovecraft0110]

I don't mind a national ID card. If it's used as a driver's license or whatever, I mean shit, I already cary one of those. Carrying my "national ID" instead wouldn't be a problem. It's the whole tracing thing that bothers me. And it's only tracing with RFID that really bothers me. At least if someone stole my card and it had to be "swiped" through a card reader, hopefully the fucker would look at the picture ID and realize it's not me.

Exactly. A nationwide, standardised ID card is what we have in Spain, for instance. No RFID shit. It is a significant security improvement, as well as something which can be just handy in many situations, like those Mouse Master describes below. And it is not like you have to give up your privacy or something, 'tis just a piece of plastic after all. And yes, it can be counterfeited, but then again, so can anything these days.

 

[gamejunkie]

I really do not like the idea of RFID's. How are all the scaners going to be paid for? Will it be an unfunded mandate?

http://www.c1au.com/pocketspectrum.html

When RFID's come I'm getting one of these. (only for RFID cards)

 

[aria]

I certainly agree with standardizing state IDs. They're too different from each other in quality. I never used fake IDs, so I could care less if they harm the underage drinking industry.

It's somewhat scary but I can't help but think that some people are being a little alarmist about the entire thing.

The Patriot Act never did lead to those gulags in Alaska did it?

Didn't it now? Who's being naive? Or have I said too much?

 

[bokmeow]

I'm not sure I follow the hidden risks in this ID, maybe it's just my lack of imagination.

But then I don't purchase alcohol, tobacco, or firearms, and clearly old enough that I do not need an ID to purchase ESRB: Mature and Adults Only games, or pr0n.

 

[Phoenix Down]

I'm not sure I follow the hidden risks in this ID, maybe it's just my lack of imagination.

But then I don't purchase alcohol, tobacco, or firearms, and clearly old enough that I do not need an ID to purchase ESRB: Mature and Adults Only games, or pr0n.

LOL, I'm 28 and I still get carded for games and porno.

20 years from now I'll probably consider that a compliment.

 

[Neo Rasa]

Didn't it now? Who's being naive? Or have I said too much?

The jig is up, you really ARE in America's Siberia!

 

[Mouse_Master]

The Patriot Act never did lead to those gulags in Alaska did it?

Not Alaska, Cuba......

 

[slerch666]

I'm not sure I follow the hidden risks in this ID, maybe it's just my lack of imagination.

If it's JUST an ID, that's one thing. The problem falls into if they put RFID technology into the card. Basically with RFID no contact is needed with the card to read whatever electronically stored information is on the card. Like I said above, a hacker with a RFID reader could just walk down a street (assuming he/she can get close enough) and read the RFID info just walking by you. Depending on what is stored on the RFID, this could lead to easy identity theft.

As I said above, if they store your SSN and your address on the card, someone "reads" the info decides they want a bank loan, bam, online bank loan here we come. YOU get the bill, they get the money and you are screwed.

I don't mind the idea of a National ID. It's what is stored on the card that I mind and how it's read that I mind.

RFIDs currently aren't strong enough to send a signal a few meters, tops. That's all well and good if you never get near people. Think about if you ride a cramped train. If the guy next to you has his RFID reader, he could steal your info. Walking down a crowded city street, same deal.

THIS is the technology the Dept of Homeland Security is looking at. They also have the ability to change the requirements of the card on the fly.

 

[bokmeow]

If it's JUST an ID, that's one thing. The problem falls into if they put RFID technology into the card. Basically with RFID no contact is needed with the card to read whatever electronically stored information is on the card. Like I said above, a hacker with a RFID reader could just walk down a street (assuming he/she can get close enough) and read the RFID info just walking by you. Depending on what is stored on the RFID, this could lead to easy identity theft.

As I said above, if they store your SSN and your address on the card, someone "reads" the info decides they want a bank loan, bam, online bank loan here we come. YOU get the bill, they get the money and you are screwed.

I don't mind the idea of a National ID. It's what is stored on the card that I mind and how it's read that I mind.

RFIDs currently aren't strong enough to send a signal a few meters, tops. That's all well and good if you never get near people. Think about if you ride a cramped train. If the guy next to you has his RFID reader, he could steal your info. Walking down a crowded city street, same deal.

THIS is the technology the Dept of Homeland Security is looking at. They also have the ability to change the requirements of the card on the fly.

Sounds too complicated for me. I'll use my passport instead, and graft it to my body lest anyone try to steal it off me.

 

[Eric]

The thing is, it still will not 'prevent' anyone from getting ahold of forgeries. Hell, the DMV in DC had some employees who were making illegal IDs at work, estimated they made about 3000 of them.

This is hardly an isolated incident. I could get a fake ID from a DMV worker right now for $80 (or so is the price my friend said it would cost me) I'm sure a large number of DMV employees supplement their income in this way.

So the next time you're standing in line at the DMV, remember, they're not just slow and incompetent, they are most likely criminals to boot.

Just don't forget this rant of yours the next time you go to Europe and have to give the hotel your passport.

 

[syringe]

Not Alaska, Cuba......

No it quite literally didn't since those are foreign nationals and Jose Pedilla sitting in a navy jail cell hardly constitutes an entire gulag.

 

[bokmeow]

No it quite literally didn't since those are foreign nationals and Jose Pedilla sitting in a navy jail cell hardly constitutes an entire gulag.

Who goddamn knows? They are all secretly interned, there could be in fact many Citizens and Permanent Residents in Cuba.

 

[rarehero]

h..
rfid.
interesting stuff.
the thing is, the more they keep track of you.
the more infastructure they will have to provide.
their excuse is the same as the patriot act,
you don't have anything to worry about if you're not doing anything wrong.
i'm not sure if i'm ready to lose my freedom of movement without being
tracked just to be more secure though.
that's a primary reason why i don't have a phone, or a cell phone.

 

[Mike Shagohod]

You can read a small FAQ on the REAL ID cards here.

I think this is some scary shit. Basically if they put RFID on the card and then install RFID readers throughout the US, they can track where you go and when. They can potentially track what you buy and when you buy it.

This honestly sounds like something a COMMUNIST govt would do, and I don't see China or NK or Cuba instituting this type of shit.

So now I will have to renew my driver's license again. When I do, I have to supply a form of photo id (will my expired driver's license work? If not, I'm screwed), proof of birth, my SSN and the OK from the SS office I'm legit. So I've lived in the US for 26 yrs and a month (to the day) and now they question who I am? I was able to get an education, a drivers license and a job, but now that they think we are all terrorists, this is all meaningless.

I fucking hate this current administration with a passion. I wish for the assholes who tacked this onto an Iraq spending bill to have their testicle put in a vice, skin peeled off of their nuts and slow burned with matches.

To be honest with you I'm more concerned about the whole "Barcode Baby" thing. Like wondering if my kid is being injected with a nanochip somewhere in it's arm or butt cheek even. As for the thread topic you've started, I'm not going to lose sleep over it, all the more reason to always stay on your feet, keep your eyes peeled, and absorb as much knowledge as possible everyday. If the the powers that be get too out of hand and try to make criminals out of ppl who have done nothing wrong, well then there's always a solution to that too...


MERCENARY X99

 

[johnroche]

The national ID thing makes me think "Don't we already have Social Security numbers?" and the RFID thing makes me think "This is a bit Orwellian" while the future of the possible injection of chips into people (probably not touched upon that much in this thread) makes me think "Geez, aren't the religious right nutjobs who are Bush's base the people who are against this sort of thing because they think 'zOMG MARK OF THE BEAST!!1'?"