Tonight’s debate

[Neo Alec]

maybe i missed something, but what does this have to do with trump becoming a lifetime dictator and killing democracy? this may be a bit more thorough or over-reaching...but most presidencies/change of leadership results in turnover of people that don't align with the new "leader"

"Power players" is debatable, but up to 50,000 non-political government positions isn't nothing.

I know you're being nihilistic on purpose, but who get elected does matter a lot. We have the makeup of the Supreme Court and their recent actions as evidence.

 

[basic]

"Power players" is debatable, but up to 50,000 non-political government positions isn't nothing.

I know you're being nihilistic on purpose, but who get elected does matter a lot. We have the makeup of the Supreme Court and their recent actions as evidence.

the composition of the supreme court is a valid point. I won't disagree there. imo, that's the biggest issue wrt to this election cycle. a conservative bias vs liberal bias in the courts is something that should be considered and weiged carefully. I personally want as close to a 50/50 blend as possible. but the link you provided is about civil servants. it's irrelevant to that point.

 

[FeetJerky]

"Power players" is debatable, but up to 50,000 non-political government positions isn't nothing.

I know you're being nihilistic on purpose, but who get elected does matter a lot. We have the makeup of the Supreme Court and their recent actions as evidence.

Don't fall for basic's Asian mind games. He's barely literate and quite duplicitous.

 

[basic]

Don't fall for basic's Asian mind games. He's barely literate and quite duplicitous.

beff I like you, but fuck you at the same time. is this love?

 

[Neo Alec]

the composition of the supreme court is a valid point. I won't disagree there. imo, that's the biggest issue wrt to this election cycle. a conservative bias vs liberal bias in the courts is something that should be considered and weiged carefully. I personally want as close to a 50/50 blend as possible. but the link you provided is about civil servants. it's irrelevant to that point.

Yes, the second paragraph of my post is a separate thought. I'm allowed to include it.

 

[FeetJerky]

beff I like you, but fuck you at the same time. is this love?

Yes.

 

[roker]

Our government is already a mockery. More of a mockery if we're openly shown to allow it to be run by nameless, unelected people from the shadows.

I disagree with you about the “more” part. I mean to me Biden is running the country the same way GWB did. I don't think what's going tops that shit especially with all the stuff going on in the background with Trump calling up Georgia and telling them to just "lose" the ballots.

 

[SML]

whether Biden or Trump wins, nothing will noticeably change.

Sure, Biden and/or Trump are both demonstrably unnecessary to keep the country running from day to day. The office of the presidency is a mechanism utilized by the "president's people" as well as embedded career bureaucrats ("the deep state") to perform the functions of the executive branch while pursuing political and personal goals.

Appointees and elected officials alike, regardless of party, tend to answer to vested interests, and can often switch back and forth between answering to those interests while in office and representing them as lobbyists.

It's going a bit far to suggest that Trump's election has been inconsequential, and things would have played out the same way if Clinton had won. For better or worse, things would at least be different.

Someone other than Gorsuch would have replaced Scalia, and Kennedy would not have retired to clear the way for Kavanaugh.

Let's say Clinton serves one term and isn't allowed to replace Ginsburg. Okay. Let's put Gorsuch in there. Breyer doesn't retire but Kennedy does. Let's put Kavanaugh in.

In June 2022, Alito, Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, and Thomas vote to overturn Roe v. Wade, while Breyer, Sotomayor, Kagan, Roberts, and Hosni Mubarak vote to keep it intact.

That's different. Hosni Mubarak is still alive.

 

[SouthtownKid]

I disagree with you about the “more” part. I mean to me Biden is running the country the same way GWB did.

Maybe, but that gets back to what I was saying about the illusion and the usefulness in maintaining it. Not just to the state, but to us.

 

[Lagduf]

Not the type to wish for war, but I'm kind of hoping they pull off a trifecta by also embarrassing China if their relations fall apart.

I would also not wish for this, but would support it were it to happen.

Afghanistan has defeated two of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council. Let’s get that third and they can be tied with current world champion: Vietnam.

 

[Taiso]

Sure, Biden and/or Trump are both demonstrably unnecessary to keep the country running from day to day. The office of the presidency is a mechanism utilized by the "president's people" as well as embedded career bureaucrats ("the deep state") to perform the functions of the executive branch while pursuing political and personal goals.

Appointees and elected officials alike, regardless of party, tend to answer to vested interests, and can often switch back and forth between answering to those interests while in office and representing them as lobbyists.

It's going a bit far to suggest that Trump's election has been inconsequential, and things would have played out the same way if Clinton had won. For better or worse, things would at least be different.

Someone other than Gorsuch would have replaced Scalia, and Kennedy would not have retired to clear the way for Kavanaugh.

Let's say Clinton serves one term and isn't allowed to replace Ginsburg. Okay. Let's put Gorsuch in there. Breyer doesn't retire but Kennedy does. Let's put Kavanaugh in.

In June 2022, Alito, Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, and Thomas vote to overturn Roe v. Wade, while Breyer, Sotomayor, Kagan, Roberts, and Hosni Mubarak vote to keep it intact.

That's different. Hosni Mubarak is still alive.

But Trump returned it to the states.

It's what everybody wanted.

All the legal experts and Republicans and Democrats...EVERYONE wanted it and he did that.

Ask anyone. They'll tell you.

Call Sean Hannity, he's a very nice man. I'll give you his number.

 

[wyo]

Democrats had 50 years to codify Roe into law. Instead they dangled it is bait to get votes.

 

[SML]

Democrats had 50 years to codify Roe into law. Instead they dangled it is bait to get votes.

Would such legislation have been more resilient?

 

[roker]

Would such legislation have been more resilient?

Supposedly, but someone could introduce a new bill and overturn with a simple majority in both chambers and also, codifying a law (to my knowledge) could still be challenged in the courts and end up in the Supreme Court.

Democrats had 50 years to codify Roe into law. Instead they dangled it is bait to get votes.

and they're still using it as bait to even greater success

 

[SouthtownKid]

I would also not wish for this, but would support it were it to happen.

Afghanistan has defeated two of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council. Let’s get that third and they can be tied with current world champion: Vietnam.

Come on, man, anyone can beat France. That doesn't count. There's probably at least one member here who's beaten France just by accident at some point. Like a hard stare at a stranger while on vacation back in the 2010s, but the stranger was Hollande, who immediately ran back to his office to draw up papers of capitulation.

 

[wyo]

Would such legislation have been more resilient?

Let's look back at the 2008 election where one of Obama's key campaign promises was to work to codify Roe "on day one" and immediately abandoned his pledge despite having a Democrat controlled House and Senate.

If the Democrats actually delivered on this issue and others instead of bailing out the banks and passing Mitt Romney's healthcare plan and other half-assed corporate friendly bullshit, Clinton would likely have won and we wouldn't have the conservative supreme court or Republican congressional majorities to overturn such a bill.

But as usual, they lied, and here we are.

 

[Lagduf]

I’m still waiting for the prison at Gitmo to close.

 

[lithy]

All I know is that if too many people vote for the guy I don't like, Democracy with a capital D is in big trouble.

This isn't a hypothetical. It's an executive order that already happened last time:

Trump’s Schedule F plan, explained

In October 2020, the Trump Administration issued an executive order called Schedule F that would have stripped protections from civil servants perceived as disloyal.

protectdemocracy.org

Should have been 500,000.

 

[lithy]

I’m still waiting for the prison at Gitmo to close.

Four more years!

 

[lithy]

The alternative that we seem to be working toward is a unitary executive unbound by law. Is that better?

The Congress is welcome to take back some of their Constitutional power that they have ceded to the executive in the last 100 years.

 

[Tarma]

 

[Taiso]

'I like bricks.'

 

[Lagduf]

Shoulda let Bernie run in 2016.

Maybe we’ll get a contested primary at the DNC. Wouldn’t that be wild.

 

[Taiso]

Shoulda let Bernie run in 2016.

Maybe we’ll get a contested primary at the DNC. Wouldn’t that be wild.

He got fucked over in 2016 for sure.

But Bernie Sanders is a politician I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw a safe.

Motherfucker writes a book called It's Okay To Be Angry About Capitalism and sells it in Barnes & Noble.

Again, I'm asking people not to believe anything Bernie Sanders says.

 

[famicommander]

The fact that it's 8 years later and Democrats are still talking about Sanders, the only living human being on earth older than Joe Biden, is comical.