The Comic Book Thread

[HeartlessNinny]

Cool, sounds interesting

Hey, I just realized something. Mister X is awesome, and well worth getting into, but the archive (which is the only collection still in print I think) ain't cheap. Even on Amazon I think it's $50 or so for 18 or 20 issues.

But there's something you could read as a sort of intro, that's also really good: Terminal City. It was a Vertigo book from a few years ago, written by Dean Motter (the creator of Mister X) and drawn by Michael Lark (who is awesome). I know the trade for that is still around. It might be a better way to get into the Mister X universe, since they both take place in the same world.

There was also a follow up to Terminal City, called Terminal City: Aerial Graffiti, and another series altogether called Electropolis, which also takes place in Mister X land. I don't believe those were collected, though. Electropolis might have been, but I don't think Aerial Graffiti was. Just thought I'd mention it.

 

[Taiso]

I LOVE MR. X!!!

 

[HeartlessNinny]

ha ha ha, who's that guy?

 

[genjiglove]

ha ha ha, who's that guy?

The big dude in the trenchcoat from Resident Evil 2.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

The big dude in the trenchcoat from Resident Evil 2.

No way. Really? I didn't recognize him.

 

[Taiso]

No way. Really? I didn't recognize him.

Haven't you ever played Resident Evil 2?

It's Mr. X, a tyrant that Umbrella can actually control. They deploy him in RE 2 to retrieve a G Virus sample. You only fight him in the 'B' scenario, though.

The picture is from Umbrella Chronicles, but the character originally appeared as a boss in RE 2. Kind of a prototype version of Nemesis. Sort of.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

Haven't you ever played Resident Evil 2?

It's Mr. X, a tyrant that Umbrella can actually control. They deploy him in RE 2 to retrieve a G Virus sample. You only fight him in the 'B' scenario, though.

The picture is from Umbrella Chronicles, but the character originally appeared as a boss in RE 2. Kind of a prototype version of Nemesis. Sort of.

Well sure, I remember it now. But I didn't recognize the guy from the picture alone. I haven't played RE2 since 1998 after all. Give a guy a break, here.

 

[Hot Chocolate]

This is hands down my fav issue of Joe Mad during his run on Uncanny

I must have reread this single issue a million times and I'm not even a Marrow fan. I always wondered why they never let him loose on a run of Spider-Man as until Chris Bachalo's three runs on Amazing that was my #1 dream comic

 

[Hot Chocolate]

did Conan the Barbarian comics go up in price?

Which one? The Marvel or Dark Horse stuff?

Slott's current run on Spidey was one of my favorite Marvel reads and I hated walking away from it, but when I said 'no more current Marvel, I meant it. Had to cut even the stuff I liked loose.

That said, I hate him as an Avenger. Sorry, but I think it sucks.

Man I just couldn't do that, Spider-island is great, Reminder on Venom & Uncanny X-Force, the fallout from Schism, the announcements for Cosmic. I'm really liking being a Marvel fan right now

Hey, I just realized something. Mister X is awesome, and well worth getting into, but the archive (which is the only collection still in print I think) ain't cheap. Even on Amazon I think it's $50 or so for 18 or 20 issues.

But there's something you could read as a sort of intro, that's also really good: Terminal City. It was a Vertigo book from a few years ago, written by Dean Motter (the creator of Mister X) and drawn by Michael Lark (who is awesome). I know the trade for that is still around. It might be a better way to get into the Mister X universe, since they both take place in the same world.

There was also a follow up to Terminal City, called Terminal City: Aerial Graffiti, and another series altogether called Electropolis, which also takes place in Mister X land. I don't believe those were collected, though. Electropolis might have been, but I don't think Aerial Graffiti was. Just thought I'd mention it.

Thanks for the info HLN, I think I remember seeing the trade for Terminal City at my lcs

Haven't you ever played Resident Evil 2?

It's Mr. X, a tyrant that Umbrella can actually control. They deploy him in RE 2 to retrieve a G Virus sample. You only fight him in the 'B' scenario, though.

The picture is from Umbrella Chronicles, but the character originally appeared as a boss in RE 2. Kind of a prototype version of Nemesis. Sort of.

I loved when Mr. X showed up in the B-scenario in RE 2, I always forgot the one time after you beat him when you leave the room and turn the corner that he would come crashing through the wall, always scared the shit out of me as I'd forget he'd do that every time

 

[Hot Chocolate]

Preview for the upcoming Avengers: X-Sanction

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=34810

 

[Andy Is A Bastard]

Hmm...On one hand, Cable's coming back and that makes me a happy boy. On the other hand, seeing Chen (Radioactive Man) back in the old costume, up to his old antics AFTER the turn he had in Thunderbolts where he genuinely seemed to want to reform and grew as a character...

I'll remain cautiously optimistic for now.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

Preview for the upcoming Avengers: X-Sanction

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=34810

Looks like utter bullshit to me. And since when is Cable an Avengers character? Fucking dumb. I guess everything has to be Avengers now. Fuck, why not just resurrect Uncle Ben and put him on the team. Jesus.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

Thanks for the info HLN, I think I remember seeing the trade for Terminal City at my lcs

Any time, chief. I really liked that series. It was actually the first thing from the Mister X universe I read, and it's still one of my favourite Vertigo minis from around that time. Plus I'm a big Lark fan, so there you go.

 

[Hot Chocolate]

Hmm...On one hand, Cable's coming back and that makes me a happy boy. On the other hand, seeing Chen (Radioactive Man) back in the old costume, up to his old antics AFTER the turn he had in Thunderbolts where he genuinely seemed to want to reform and grew as a character...

I'll remain cautiously optimistic for now.

Yeah I'm wondering why the editor of this didn't tell Loeb that, hell I'm sure if Loeb looked him up on wiki there would be a entry for him in the Thunderbolts

Looks like utter bullshit to me. And since when is Cable an Avengers character? Fucking dumb. I guess everything has to be Avengers now. Fuck, why not just resurrect Uncle Ben and put him on the team. Jesus.

They're crossing over, the Avengers might do something to Hope so Cable is back and doesn't like that

Any time, chief. I really liked that series. It was actually the first thing from the Mister X universe I read, and it's still one of my favourite Vertigo minis from around that time. Plus I'm a big Lark fan, so there you go.

Loved Lark's contributions to Spider-Man: Grim Hunt

 

[Taiso]

I'm all in favor of more character crossovers, myself. But I hate events.

I remember when you'd see Dr. Doom fighting the X-Men back when he was primarily a FF villain, or Daredevil taking on Doctor Octopus or Captain America versus Dragonman. I liked the idea that these characters could run across one another. They didn't exist in independent vacuums from one another. Two or three issue arcs in those books were enough for me.

And what's better, when Shooter had the office in check, those events were referenced in the other comics. Remember when Reed Richards saved Galactus during Byrne's run on FF? Galactus was starved and weakened and it still took the combined might of the Avengers and the FF to take him down. What's more, they actually BEAT him, which at that point in Marvel's storyline was fucking unheard of-nobody took the Big G down in a straight up fight-there were usually some Ultimate Nullifier shenanigans or some deal being made or some other well conceived plot contrivance. I loved how the old Marvel found ways to tell great stories without compromising the characters or making them look weak.

A few months later, in Paul Smith's run with Claremont on X-Men, Lilandra found out that Richards had Galactus on the ropes and they let him live and she was so pissed off she payed him a visit and threatened him with vengeance for his compassion. I was like 'wow, this is kinda cool. It feels like a shared universe where the actions of the characters are impacting other books, as they should.' It wasn't just great storytelling, but it was also strong continuity.

Then, later, Reed was bushwacked by the Sh'iar empire and put on trial in one of the best, most well conceived FF stories of all time-The Trial of Reed Richards. From start to finish, that story felt like an arc building over the course of many, many years. It felt like a major storyline Marvel was slowly cooking on the backburner and suddenly, BAM. There it was.

Nowadays, events happen out of order, the characters don't act consistently across these events. Which partly defeats the purpose-why should I care about the characters crossing over with each other if the only connecting thread is the costume they wear? And also, when did these things happen and why is everything coming out in the wrong order? Captain America Reborn, anyone?

And as for 'what about the creative forces behind the book?' Well, fuck them. They are not writing creator owned properties. They are writing pop culture icons. They have a responsibility to write the characters consistently and not put their own goddamn spin on it-make your own characters if you want to do that. When I pick up a comic with Captain America, I want to see the character BEING Captain America, not some douchebag that dresses and looks like him but has absolutely no memory of past events and no correlation for all the different books he appears in.

THAT is my big beef with Marvel. It's all so wild and unrestrained right now. Events don't make sense, aren't generally good stories (IMO) and are just a mess. THAT is why I dropped all Marvel from my pulls. I just couldn't give them my money anymore. It's not the Marvel I grew up with, and that's fine. But in my opinion, the current 616 is a terrible universe and I just don't want to throw money at it in the 'hopes' that it'll get better. I'd rather stop giving them my money, hope others do the same thing and eventually Marvel gets the message and changes it.

The same creators can tell great stories and still maintain some universal continuity and adherence to publishing schedules. There is nothing stopping them from doing that. If they're bored and they're making it crazier and crazier because they don't know what else to do (Bendis on Avengers,for example) it's time for them to mosey on to something else and let another creator work with it.

That is my .02. Agree or disagree or be indifferent. It's how I feel.

Go DC. Make 'em sweat.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

They're crossing over, the Avengers might do something to Hope so Cable is back and doesn't like that

zzzzzzz.......... Oh sorry, I nodded off there.

I'm all in favor of more character crossovers, myself. But I hate events.

I remember when you'd see Dr. Doom fighting the X-Men back when he was primarily a FF villain, or Daredevil taking on Doctor Octopus or Captain America versus Dragonman. I liked the idea that these characters could run across one another. They didn't exist in independent vacuums from one another. Two or three issue arcs in those books were enough for me.

And what's better, when Shooter had the office in check, those events were referenced in the other comics. Remember when Reed Richards saved Galactus during Byrne's run on FF? Galactus was starved and weakened and it still took the combined might of the Avengers and the FF to take him down. What's more, they actually BEAT him, which at that point in Marvel's storyline was fucking unheard of-nobody took the Big G down in a straight up fight-there were usually some Ultimate Nullifier shenanigans or some deal being made or some other well conceived plot contrivance. I loved how the old Marvel found ways to tell great stories without compromising the characters or making them look weak.

A few months later, in Paul Smith's run with Claremont on X-Men, Lilandra found out that Richards had Galactus on the ropes and they let him live and she was so pissed off she payed him a visit and threatened him with vengeance for his compassion. I was like 'wow, this is kinda cool. It feels like a shared universe where the actions of the characters are impacting other books, as they should.' It wasn't just great storytelling, but it was also strong continuity.

Then, later, Reed was bushwacked by the Sh'iar empire and put on trial in one of the best, most well conceived FF stories of all time-The Trial of Reed Richards. From start to finish, that story felt like an arc building over the course of many, many years. It felt like a major storyline Marvel was slowly cooking on the backburner and suddenly, BAM. There it was.

Nowadays, events happen out of order, the characters don't act consistently across these events. Which partly defeats the purpose-why should I care about the characters crossing over with each other if the only connecting thread is the costume they wear? And also, when did these things happen and why is everything coming out in the wrong order? Captain America Reborn, anyone?

And as for 'what about the creative forces behind the book?' Well, fuck them. They are not writing creator owned properties. They are writing pop culture icons. They have a responsibility to write the characters consistently and not put their own goddamn spin on it-make your own characters if you want to do that. When I pick up a comic with Captain America, I want to see the character BEING Captain America, not some douchebag that dresses and looks like him but has absolutely no memory of past events and no correlation for all the different books he appears in.

THAT is my big beef with Marvel. It's all so wild and unrestrained right now. Events don't make sense, aren't generally good stories (IMO) and are just a mess. THAT is why I dropped all Marvel from my pulls. I just couldn't give them my money anymore. It's not the Marvel I grew up with, and that's fine. But in my opinion, the current 616 is a terrible universe and I just don't want to throw money at it in the 'hopes' that it'll get better. I'd rather stop giving them my money, hope others do the same thing and eventually Marvel gets the message and changes it.

The same creators can tell great stories and still maintain some universal continuity and adherence to publishing schedules. There is nothing stopping them from doing that. If they're bored and they're making it crazier and crazier because they don't know what else to do (Bendis on Avengers,for example) it's time for them to mosey on to something else and let another creator work with it.

That is my .02. Agree or disagree or be indifferent. It's how I feel.

Go DC. Make 'em sweat.

With respect, I think you might be overly romanticizing the past at Marvel. It's true that they did pay attention to continuity back in the day, but there were plenty of mistakes, and it didn't always line up. I didn't read the whole Marvel line throughout history, but I know that people have forgotten a lot of the mistakes. What I'm saying is this: there was no golden age of continuity, or if there is, it's not quite how people remember it.

Another thing that bothers me about continuity nerds (though you yourself haven't said this, Taiso, just to make that clear) is that it's a relatively new phenomenon. Those guys carry on like every comic in history at the big two was connected to everything in the line, but that's not the case at all. They only started doing that in, what? The late Silver Age? The 80s was when they were doing it the most, right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway it annoys me when continuity nerds insist that nowadays is the only time when the editors haven't prioritized continuity, because that ain't true.

Just my two cents.

 

[Taiso]

I committed skullduggery on myself when I talked to you about coming back here

With respect, I think you might be overly romanticizing the past at Marvel. It's true that they did pay attention to continuity back in the day, but there were plenty of mistakes, and it didn't always line up. I didn't read the whole Marvel line throughout history, but I know that people have forgotten a lot of the mistakes. What I'm saying is this: there was no golden age of continuity, or if there is, it's not quite how people remember it.

Mistakes are always going to happen, especially when you are publishing so many monthly titles. I caught them from time to time, myself. That is why Marvel No-Prizes existed.

That is not what is happening at the current (shitty) Marvel. They are publishing as though they don't even care about it anymore.

That's my issue. And it's a valid one.

Another thing that bothers me about continuity nerds (though you yourself haven't said this, Taiso, just to make that clear) is that it's a relatively new phenomenon. Those guys carry on like every comic in history at the big two was connected to everything in the line, but that's not the case at all. They only started doing that in, what? The late Silver Age? The 80s was when they were doing it the most, right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

No, it was happening before then. Comic historians like Roy Thomas, who worked for Marvel in the 70s, kept the continuity tighter than it is right now.

Anyway it annoys me when continuity nerds insist that nowadays is the only time when the editors haven't prioritized continuity, because that ain't true.

Just my two cents.

I think there were other eras where continuity wasn't high on their list. It's not just today.

It's just gotten unbearably bad today, at least from my vantage, to the point where I can't stand the inconsistency any more. It might not even be as bad as I make it seem to be. It might just be years and years of the current direction lighting my frustration. It leads to portrayals of characters and the contrivances of plot points that put me off the books. I don't care if they're good individual yarns. The characters are simply more important to me than to be able to ignore continuity for the sake of a good story.

There are other comics-other stories-I can enjoy for that. When I buy a Marvel (or DC) book, I expect a certain entity, comprised of a lot of smaller elements that make up the whole. Continuity is a key thing for me. I want consistency. I want the publishing schedule to put out events in the proper sequence. I don't want to see things like Captain America being thoughtful and sensitive in Captain America Reborn, only to act like simple minded angry/crazy person screaming 'he does time in an American jail!' in Siege.

I want to see the writers at least ATTEMPTING to write the characters in a more linear fashion, rather than writing to their own fetishistic impulses. Cap is just the most glaring example because his distinctions are so transparent and easy to identify that any deviation is easy to notice. But all of the characters have these portrayals, and it's maddening to me.

 

[wataru330]

I haven't bought Marvels on a regular basis since, man- DeFalco was in charge?

Shooter's Ed-in-Chief run was my favorite.

My Marvel fandom was sparked by Secret Wars, reached it's plateau during Fall of the Mutants & Armour Wars, & fizzled out by Inferno.

Taiso, I'm counting on you to lmk when it is safe to come back.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

I committed skullduggery on myself when I talked to you about coming back here



Mistakes are always going to happen, especially when you are publishing so many monthly titles. I caught them from time to time, myself. That is why Marvel No-Prizes existed.

That is not what is happening at the current (shitty) Marvel. They are publishing as though they don't even care about it anymore.

That's my issue. And it's a valid one.



No, it was happening before then. Comic historians like Roy Thomas, who worked for Marvel in the 70s, kept the continuity tighter than it is right now.



I think there were other eras where continuity wasn't high on their list. It's not just today.

It's just gotten unbearably bad today, at least from my vantage, to the point where I can't stand the inconsistency any more. It might not even be as bad as I make it seem to be. It might just be years and years of the current direction lighting my frustration. It leads to portrayals of characters and the contrivances of plot points that put me off the books. I don't care if they're good individual yarns. The characters are simply more important to me than to be able to ignore continuity for the sake of a good story.

There are other comics-other stories-I can enjoy for that. When I buy a Marvel (or DC) book, I expect a certain entity, comprised of a lot of smaller elements that make up the whole. Continuity is a key thing for me. I want consistency. I want the publishing schedule to put out events in the proper sequence. I don't want to see things like Captain America being thoughtful and sensitive in Captain America Reborn, only to act like simple minded angry/crazy person screaming 'he does time in an American jail!' in Siege.

I want to see the writers at least ATTEMPTING to write the characters in a more linear fashion, rather than writing to their own fetishistic impulses. Cap is just the most glaring example because his distinctions are so transparent and easy to identify that any deviation is easy to notice. But all of the characters have these portrayals, and it's maddening to me.

Don't blame yourself, Taiso. I just asked for your blessing, you didn't convince me to do anything.

Anyway. Don't get me wrong -- if you're trying to make the case that Marvel was better in the '80s (or whatever), I'm right there with you. All I was trying to say is that nostalgia is a powerful force, especially when it comes to comics. I remember the good ol' days with a grain of salt, and to me this is a sensible attitude. I'm willing to venture you share it, too, at least a little bit. We're just saying it in different ways. The only real quibble I'd take up with you is blaming the editors more than the writers. There are some crappy writers at Marvel, and they have too much license to do whatever they want with the characters. I think that's the problem more than the bad writing in and of itself.

Anyway, it's true that the current inconsistency bothers you more than me, but the root cause of it -- poor editorial quality control -- is the same, and on that subject, we're simpatico. These days, Marvel sucks! Sing it loud and sing it proud, brother. Because as far as I'm concerned, that's the gospel truth.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

I haven't bought Marvels on a regular basis since, man- DeFalco was in charge?

Shooter's Ed-in-Chief run was my favorite.

My Marvel fandom was sparked by Secret Wars, reached it's plateau during Fall of the Mutants & Armour Wars, & fizzled out by Inferno.

Taiso, I'm counting on you to lmk when it is safe to come back.

Here's my suggestion: Read DC instead.

 

[wataru330]

Pirahna Press, natch!

X^D

 

[SouthtownKid]

Shooter's Ed-in-Chief run was my favorite.

Same here. But the first 4 or 5 years of Quesada was pretty great, too. The most experimental (in a good way) that Marvel had been since Shooter left. The strongest focus on story and strong artistic storytelling over meaningless style and splash pages since Shooter left, too.

 

[Taiso]

Same here. But the first 4 or 5 years of Quesada was pretty great, too. The most experimental (in a good way) that Marvel had been since Shooter left. The strongest focus on story and strong artistic storytelling over meaningless style and splash pages since Shooter left, too.

I'd agree that early Quesada was pretty good.

 

[SouthtownKid]

I'd agree that early Quesada was pretty good.

I don't know what happened to pull it off the rails, but I kept giving him the benefit of the doubt for about 4 years straight, as if the dip in quality was just a temporary fluke, but they never managed to rescue it. Jemas may have brought around a lot of controversy and some ill-will among some creative staff (much as Shooter had), but there's no denying that the combination of Quesada and Jemas produced some magnificent results.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

I'm on board with the early Quesada too. Some of those comics were truly great (like, say, the first series of Ultimates).

Here's my theory about what happened: Early on, Quesada put a bunch of his friends in charge of key aspects of the line (like Axel on Marvel Knights). It just so happened that those guys were in the prime of their careers, and bereft of editorial meddling, they created a lot of really creative and noteworthy work.

Now, cut to ten years later. Those guys are either burnt out without realizing it, straight up gone, or otherwise diminished. But they still get to do whatever they want, so the same thing that made their work good way back when makes it bad now.

Here's an example: Daredevil as an Avenger. Bendis's run on Daredevil was pretty great, if you ask me. Some all around good stuff. He took chances with the character, and I think it worked.

But as an Avenger? Come the fuck on. That's a terrible idea, and I honestly don't see a way to make it work. Even if there was a way, Bendis has lost the creative edge needed to pull it off. But the editorial staff clearly gives him free reign to do whatever he wants, so that's how it is.

I'd also cite Mark Millar's stuff. Early on, those Ultimates books were friggin' amazing. Now what do we get from him? Crappy creator-owned stuff. I don't care what anyone says, Kick-Ass was lame.

Anyway, that's my theory. I'm curious to know what you guys think of it.