The Comic Book Thread

[aria]

The Walking Dead.

I'll give that a whirl. Amazoned it.

 

[OrochiEddie]

I recently read the 4 piece "Insane in the brain" Weapon X series and despite the ridiculousness of something called the "God Brain Machine" I enjoyed it. It was nice to see a new Marvel villain despite how crazy the premise was. Then again I think that is part of what I enjoyed, they didn't even attempt to explain how brains in a vat cause people to have their minds taken over.

I also liked the guy with chainsaw arms.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

The layouts for the Rucka/Williams run on Detective are unlike anything I've seen since Matt Wagner's Grendel: Devil By The Deed. There's some standard sequential stuff but there are some beautiful spreads that look like nothing so much as stained glass art.

The writing's been pretty good, too. Defiinitely a great read.

That's a good point too. We've come a long way since the standard grid they used to use. I always thought Steve Bissette deserved more credit for breaking the mold on Swamp Thing back in the 80s, by the way.

I'll give that a whirl. Amazoned it.

Let us know what you think.

 

[aria]

Taiso is right, Walking Dead is pretty solid and it's a good portrayal of a world gone down the tubes. I love a good post-apocalyptic story, and I found that Y didn't really give it to me. So if you want to see some fucked up shit, give Walking Dead a try. It's actually more of a post-apocalypse story than a zombie story, I'd say.

But be warned: some people sing its praises endlessly, but there are some significant flaws. For one, the characters can be a little wooden at times, and Kirkman has the occasional tin ear for dialogue. The pacing really slows to a crawl about 25 or 30 issues in, if you hang in there. But overall it's a great book and worth reading.

Give the first trade a go. It's at a discounted price to entice you.

Let us know what you think.

Okay, I picked up the 48 issue collection, and I've made it to Chapter 6. I really enjoyed the story and the way the characters were handled overall. However I'm now thinking of stopping: I'm to the point where Rick and the other two run into The Governor and his people (Rick lost his hand and Glenn is trying to make his way back to the prison with the bad guys following him) --at this point I'm a bit worried its just going to turn into post-apocalyptic cliches strung out one after the other.

The two main things that concern me:

(1) Okay, while Rick's band of survivors have a somewhat believable life, its hard to believe the Governor's group has already turned that way after only 6-8 months --if it had been a few years, then maybe.

(2) I've already seen The Road (which takes place 10+ years after a cataclysm; in a world without plants, animals and thus scavenging for any food left or dealing with cannibals), so I'm worried that I'm going to start making negative comparisons.

Should I continue?

 

[genjiglove]

Give it a chance, I never really considered the story a post apocalyptic cliche. Its more of a "Just when you think these people's lives couldn't get any shittier, this happens..." type thing.

 

[Taiso]

Okay, I picked up the 48 issue collection, and I've made it to Chapter 6. I really enjoyed the story and the way the characters were handled overall. However I'm now thinking of stopping: I'm to the point where Rick and the other two run into The Governor and his people (Rick lost his hand and Glenn is trying to make his way back to the prison with the bad guys following him) --at this point I'm a bit worried its just going to turn into post-apocalyptic cliches strung out one after the other.

The two main things that concern me:

(1) Okay, while Rick's band of survivors have a somewhat believable life, its hard to believe the Governor's group has already turned that way after only 6-8 months --if it had been a few years, then maybe.

I don't find it all that unbelievable. What you really have with the Governor's city is a warlord state where he actually established a form of society, rather than just living in shantytown huts, drinking, smoking and fucking all the time. You can't say what's going to happen in a world where society has completely broken down. A lot of people will try to return to that, and will willingly accept whatever new caveats are in place in a 'changed' world to get back what they can. Who's to say that people might not say 'well, he's kinda harsh but at least it's a place where we can feel safe and have a kind of normal life.' Most people probably believe that if they keep their noses clean and do as expected, they won't get punished. And those that DO get punished, whether legitimately or because they're a pain in the Governor's ass, somebody will spin it so that the community doesn't outright revolt against him. And if you keep reading, you see that his hold on things is a bit more tenuous and realistically portrayed when the shit starts to hit the fan.

(2) I've already seen The Road (which takes place 10+ years after a cataclysm; in a world without plants, animals and thus scavenging for any food left or dealing with cannibals), so I'm worried that I'm going to start making negative comparisons.

Then, quite simply, don't.

The Road is about a dead world. The Walking Dead is about a living planet with dying, and undead, people.

As for the roaming cannibals and foraging for food and whatnot, in any post apocalyptic fiction these things are likely going to be ever present realities. They're as necessary to a post apocalyptic setting as the fabric of society, laws and politics are to contemporary dramas. They're simply part and parcel of the package, and I'd rather they broach the subject and show the characters reacting to that in their own fashion (as they've continually done in The Walking Dead) over simply ignoring it for fear of treading down a 'familiar path.'

If I were reading The Walking Dead and these things DIDN'T become aspects of it, I'd wonder how they ended up in such a nice zombie apocalypse where there are no depraved humans who've lost their minds and there's food aplenty for every roaming survivor.

Should I continue?

If you're still enjoying it, keep reading it. Stop when you finally feel you've had enough. Hopefully, that point never comes

 

[HeartlessNinny]

Okay, I picked up the 48 issue collection, and I've made it to Chapter 6. I really enjoyed the story and the way the characters were handled overall. However I'm now thinking of stopping: I'm to the point where Rick and the other two run into The Governor and his people (Rick lost his hand and Glenn is trying to make his way back to the prison with the bad guys following him) --at this point I'm a bit worried its just going to turn into post-apocalyptic cliches strung out one after the other.

The two main things that concern me:

(1) Okay, while Rick's band of survivors have a somewhat believable life, its hard to believe the Governor's group has already turned that way after only 6-8 months --if it had been a few years, then maybe.

(2) I've already seen The Road (which takes place 10+ years after a cataclysm; in a world without plants, animals and thus scavenging for any food left or dealing with cannibals), so I'm worried that I'm going to start making negative comparisons.

Should I continue?

Yeah, I'd continue. The Governor story line is by far the dumbest the series has had to offer so far. It was slow paced, badly characterized, needlessly gratuitous and shocking, and just generally bad. It lasts a while, unfortunately, but when it's over Kirkman gets back to what made the series interesting in the first place.

I'd be wary of your second point, though. I've read the Road (haven't seen the film yet, though I want to), so I know exactly what you're referring to... And (slight spoiler alert) you do get a bit of that kind of thing later. It's not nearly as mishandled as the Governor bullshit though, so I'd hang in there and read it anyway.

So, to summarize: If the Governor nonsense was the only part you didn't like, I'd hang in there. If you're otherwise getting sick of it (and it doesn't really sound like you are), keep going.

 

[genjiglove]

After the whole thing with the Governor wraps up (if you want to call it that) be aware that there is another pretty slow period. It starts picking up again after about 5-6 issues and I actually enjoyed this slow period but it does drag at times. Probably because I buy this book every month, not the trades.

I always consider switching to trades but I can't help but buy the book every month.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

Hm. I buy it every month too, and I didn't find the part after the Governor slow. Maybe it's because the Governor part was fucking excruciatingly slow by comparison?

 

[Taiso]

I prefer the decompression that The Walking Dead utilizes in telling its story. The characters and situations take more time to develop and that makes them more believable to me.

 

[genjiglove]

Hm. I buy it every month too, and I didn't find the part after the Governor slow. Maybe it's because the Governor part was fucking excruciatingly slow by comparison?

Might also be because at the time I couldn't afford to get to the comic shop every month too. I did like that arc though...

***SPOILERS***

Rick talking to "Laurie" on the phone was pretty cool. Just shows how even the most stable characters in the book are pretty crazy.

P.S. If they ever kill Michonne I might have to stop reading the book.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

I prefer the decompression that The Walking Dead utilizes in telling its story. The characters and situations take more time to develop and that makes them more believable to me.

You're crazy. Sometimes it seems like Kirkman couldn't waste more time if his life depended on it. Don't get me wrong, I don't want him to rush, but he can really drag things out sometimes.

P.S. If they ever kill Michonne I might have to stop reading the book.

Yeah, that part was cool. I tell ya, though. I like the characters and anything, but I don't mind when Kirkman kills someone. Hell, he could waste the whole cast and start over for all I care. I'm just not that attached to any of those characters.

 

[Taiso]

You're crazy. Sometimes it seems like Kirkman couldn't waste more time if his life depended on it. Don't get me wrong, I don't want him to rush, but he can really drag things out sometimes.

I disagree.

I think what's happening here is he's writing very organically with this. He's letting the story tell itself and he's merely scribing it. And I think the reason he does this is because he has to believe what he's writing in order for him to present it for mass consumption. At least, with this story that's how he's doing it.

In order for the decisions the characters make to be realistic to Kirkman's satisfaction, he's writing it with a pacing that is very human and believable. Real people faced with decisions with grave consequences often labor over choices. Whenever a character has to come to grips with inner turmoil, for whatever reason that turmoil exists and whoever is at fault, people don't just make a decision and go forward with it because they're aware an audience is watching them.

In order for The Walking Dead's characters to be what they are, decompression is essential. It can't always be wrapped up within one or two issues of a comic book, and frankly that's what I like about the book the most. If this changed to satisfy the short attention span of its few detractors, I'd be the one walking away. If audiences can't handle the fact that the characters of this book evolve over time, like real human beings do, then they need to move on to something that is more suited to their entertainment needs.

The point of The Walking Dead isn't really whether they're going to live or die. The point is to show, in human terms, what happens to them and what they go through in order to survive. That is the meat of the book. And that is much better expressed through decompression.

 

[aria]

Yeah, I'd continue. The Governor story line is by far the dumbest the series has had to offer so far. It was slow paced, badly characterized, needlessly gratuitous and shocking, and just generally bad. It lasts a while, unfortunately, but when it's over Kirkman gets back to what made the series interesting in the first place.

I'd be wary of your second point, though. I've read the Road (haven't seen the film yet, though I want to), so I know exactly what you're referring to... And (slight spoiler alert) you do get a bit of that kind of thing later. It's not nearly as mishandled as the Governor bullshit though, so I'd hang in there and read it anyway.

So, to summarize: If the Governor nonsense was the only part you didn't like, I'd hang in there. If you're otherwise getting sick of it (and it doesn't really sound like you are), keep going.

Okay, that makes me feel a lot better about continuing.

I don't mind his pacing at all, I think I'll only mind it here because I'm not thrilled with the cliched "bad guy" situation here (again, I still think 6m is just waaaay too soon for it to have reached the point of having arena fights with live people surrounded by zombies).

Actually, HeartlessNinny, I accidentally read a bit of summary of what must have been issue 60-something, so I know there's some The Road-like material coming --which I don't mind.

 

[SouthtownKid]

Walking Dead kind of lost me when that one chick started getting all ninja with the sword. Any verisimilitude the comic had up to that point kind of went out the window for me and it started feeling more comic book-y.

 

[aria]

Walking Dead kind of lost me when that one chick started getting all ninja with the sword. Any verisimilitude the comic had up to that point kind of went out the window for me and it started feeling more comic book-y.

"but she's a lawyer!"

I know what you mean, but I was willing to budge on that one a bit.

 

[SouthtownKid]

"but she's a lawyer!"

I know what you mean, but I was willing to budge on that one a bit.

I dunno. It killed the tone of the book for me, and without tone, the book didn't have much to sustain it. Maybe I'll give it another try at some point.

Kirkman is really hit and miss with me. I'm kind of a structure freak when it comes to writing, and he has none. He just rambles pretty organically like a little kid telling a story: "This happened, and then this happened, and then this happened, oh, oh, and then THIS happend...!" Which can be both a strength and a weakness. A strength in that real life does kind of work that way, but a weakness in that his stuff often feels really unfocused and can drag a lot. Like if he doesn't happen to have any good ideas that month, he'll still fill the story with meandering fluff just to fill pages until he does get another idea. He is generally a good idea man, though.

 

[aria]

I dunno. It killed the tone of the book for me, and without tone, the book didn't have much to sustain it. Maybe I'll give it another try at some point.

Kirkman is really hit and miss with me. I'm kind of a structure freak when it comes to writing, and he has none. He just rambles pretty organically like a little kid telling a story: "This happened, and then this happened, and then this happened, oh, oh, and then THIS happend...!" Which can be both a strength and a weakness. A strength in that real life does kind of work that way, but a weakness in that his stuff often feels really unfocused and can drag a lot. Like if he doesn't happen to have any good ideas that month, he'll still fill the story with meandering fluff just to fill pages until he does get another idea. He is generally a good idea man, though.

I see what you're saying --I just assumed it was connected to how this is a comic series with no set ending (at least from what I've read); he seems to just be playing it by ear.

With that said, I think that's why I preferred reading World War Z (though I sort of which it were twice as long with more stories from the war).

At least its better in practice than Y: The Last Man, which took a fascinating idea and blew it in a few issues (at least for me)

 

[SouthtownKid]

It's the same thing that irritates me with a lot of French movies. You take a set of characters, wind them up, and watch them wander through a rambling series of events with little to no point until a certain number of minutes goes by and the movie just stops wherever it happens to be at that point. Maybe something meaningful happened and maybe it didn't.

 

[aria]

It's the same thing that irritates me with a lot of French movies. You take a set of characters, wind them up, and watch them wander through a rambling series of events with little to no point until a certain number of minutes goes by and the movie just stops wherever it happens to be at that point. Maybe something meaningful happened and maybe it didn't.

Good analogy

And if something magical does happen (by chance), its considered good. Its funny to imagine the French film industry operating completely in that way

 

[HeartlessNinny]

I disagree.

I think what's happening here is he's writing very organically with this. He's letting the story tell itself and he's merely scribing it. And I think the reason he does this is because he has to believe what he's writing in order for him to present it for mass consumption. At least, with this story that's how he's doing it.

In order for the decisions the characters make to be realistic to Kirkman's satisfaction, he's writing it with a pacing that is very human and believable. Real people faced with decisions with grave consequences often labor over choices. Whenever a character has to come to grips with inner turmoil, for whatever reason that turmoil exists and whoever is at fault, people don't just make a decision and go forward with it because they're aware an audience is watching them.

In order for The Walking Dead's characters to be what they are, decompression is essential. It can't always be wrapped up within one or two issues of a comic book, and frankly that's what I like about the book the most. If this changed to satisfy the short attention span of its few detractors, I'd be the one walking away. If audiences can't handle the fact that the characters of this book evolve over time, like real human beings do, then they need to move on to something that is more suited to their entertainment needs.

The point of The Walking Dead isn't really whether they're going to live or die. The point is to show, in human terms, what happens to them and what they go through in order to survive. That is the meat of the book. And that is much better expressed through decompression.

Well, I can see why you would say that, but forgive me if it sounds (to me) like you're just being a bit of a Kirkman apologist. I just don't think his rambling works well in comic form, that's all. When he meanders relentlessly (as STK points out), there has to be an appropriate payoff to be satisfied as a reader. With the Governor arc, he tried to give us a big punch up at the end, but by then I was so bored and frustrated it was too late and I simply didn't care about something that should have been a jarring scene.

Actually, HeartlessNinny, I accidentally read a bit of summary of what must have been issue 60-something, so I know there's some The Road-like material coming --which I don't mind.

Ah, good.

Walking Dead kind of lost me when that one chick started getting all ninja with the sword. Any verisimilitude the comic had up to that point kind of went out the window for me and it started feeling more comic book-y.

I actually thought it lost a lot of realism well before that. I can't remember when, exactly, but I never really lost the feeling that it was very comic book-y, so to me the ninja shit was less irritating. I can certainly see where you're coming from, though (and the ninja shit completely ruins Kick-Ass, just for the record — though Kick-Ass was well on its way to ruin without any ninja bullshit anyway).

 

[aria]

So I was killing times at Barnes & Noble and picked up the sequel to Star Trek: Countdown, which is Star Trek: Nero (filling in the years between when they arrive in the past and when they actually run into Spock). I haven't read any reviews, it could be terrible --but Countdown was passable reading, so I figured I'd give it a whirl.

I also picked up The Zombie Survival Guide: Recorded Attacks, which is a comic book adaptation of some of the "historic recorded attacks" included at the end of Max Brooks' first book: The Zombie Survival Guide (which I haven't read, only skimmed summaries). I look forward to it.

I figured I should also ask opinions of two series I've heard the name of, but never read: Preacher and 30 Days of Night.

 

[SouthtownKid]

So I was killing times at Barnes & Noble and picked up the sequel to Star Trek: Countdown, which is Star Trek: Nero (filling in the years between when they arrive in the past and when they actually run into Spock). I haven't read any reviews, it could be terrible --but Countdown was passable reading, so I figured I'd give it a whirl.

Brave. I wouldn't have figured there was enough of a story to tell. Countdown was okay, but by normal licensed movie tie-in comic book standards, that equals "stellar". Especially from IDW. A lot of their licensed books are fucking embarrassing. Some of the other Star Trek comics they've done, you can't even look at them. You risk giving yourself a permanent wince.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

Of those, I've only read Preacher, so I'll just talk about that.

Here's the thing about Preacher: it's really friggin awesome, but probably a lot weirder than you think (even if you already think it's weird), and not without a few disappointments.

But! It's a landmark series. Comics were never quite the same after Preacher, and with good reason. It's a very captivating read, if nothing else. And, unlike Walking Dead (sorry Taiso! ) the characters are very endearing and well realized.

I'd say get it next, personally. It's truly remarkable in its shock value if nothing else, and Ennis never lets up on that front (you'll witness sexual deviancy like you never imagined, trust me). Good stuff.

If you like that, I'd recommend Hitman very, very highly. It's my favourite comic series of all time (bar none), and Ennis did it at the same time he did Preacher. It's less iconic and influential, but it's a much better series, with more laughs (and way more tears). I could talk about it all day so I'll stop myself right now, but I will say this: I have honestly never enjoyed a comic as much as I did Hitman, and on a ridiculous amount of levels (I literally laughed myself to tears, and then shed actual tears — sometimes in the same issue. Seriously). The only downside is they haven't traded all of them, though they're in the process of doing so now (at last).

If that's too much bother, go with Transmetropolitan. It's just as iconic as Preacher, but more rife with commentary and ideas on our current hedonistic society. It's a smart book to say the least, and it never lets up either. More to the point, though, I think you'd really like it. Check it out (if you haven't already).

 

[aria]

Of those, I've only read Preacher, so I'll just talk about that.

Here's the thing about Preacher: it's really friggin awesome, but probably a lot weirder than you think (even if you already think it's weird), and not without a few disappointments.

But! It's a landmark series. Comics were never quite the same after Preacher, and with good reason. It's a very captivating read, if nothing else. And, unlike Walking Dead (sorry Taiso! ) the characters are very endearing and well realized.

I'd say get it next, personally. It's truly remarkable in its shock value if nothing else, and Ennis never lets up on that front (you'll witness sexual deviancy like you never imagined, trust me). Good stuff.

If you like that, I'd recommend Hitman very, very highly. It's my favourite comic series of all time (bar none), and Ennis did it at the same time he did Preacher. It's less iconic and influential, but it's a much better series, with more laughs (and way more tears). I could talk about it all day so I'll stop myself right now, but I will say this: I have honestly never enjoyed a comic as much as I did Hitman, and on a ridiculous amount of levels (I literally laughed myself to tears, and then shed actual tears — sometimes in the same issue. Seriously). The only downside is they haven't traded all of them, though they're in the process of doing so now (at last).

If that's too much bother, go with Transmetropolitan. It's just as iconic as Preacher, but more rife with commentary and ideas on our current hedonistic society. It's a smart book to say the least, and it never lets up either. More to the point, though, I think you'd really like it. Check it out (if you haven't already).

Yeah, I like Ennis' work on Judge Dredd and The Punisher MAX, so I should go ahead and dive in.