The Comic Book Thread

Taiso

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A couple of other older recommendations if people haven't picked up on them:

Captain Britain by Alan Moore and Alan Davis.

Also, the follow up by Jamie Delano and Alan Davis.

Excellent stuff, IMO. That was my favorite Captain Britain stuff ever and was a wonderful reworking of the character. I almost liked the Delano/Davis stuff more than the Moore/Davis stuff. That is a tough call.

Just read it all. It's good.
 

HeartlessNinny

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A couple of other older recommendations if people haven't picked up on them:

Captain Britain by Alan Moore and Alan Davis.

Also, the follow up by Jamie Delano and Alan Davis.

Excellent stuff, IMO. That was my favorite Captain Britain stuff ever and was a wonderful reworking of the character. I almost liked the Delano/Davis stuff more than the Moore/Davis stuff. That is a tough call.

Just read it all. It's good.

You know, I'm a huge Alan Moore fan like any comic book enthusiast should be, but I never read the Captain Britain stuff. Kinda makes me think... the last couple pages in this thread have really been a boon. Thanks guys. ;)
 

Taiso

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This thread is the most winningest thread in the history of threads, IMO.

The only bad thing about the Alan Moore/Jamie Delan /Alan Davis run on Captain Britain is that it was so good, Chris Claremont had to steal it for his own shitty purposes.

Because, you know, Psylocke wasn't an interesting character until she became a sexy Asian ninja assassin:rolleyes:

Just a couple more characters who were victimized by Claremont. I swear, after Byrne left Uncanny X-men, he should have left with him.

But yeah, read the Moore/Delano/Davis Captain Britain stuff.

You know, Alan Davis may be another vastly underrated writer. Pretty much everything he's ever written has been something I've liked. His art, without going to too much detail, is godly.
 

HeartlessNinny

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You know, Alan Davis may be another vastly underrated writer. Pretty much everything he's ever written has been something I've liked. His art, without going to too much detail, is godly.

Maybe it's 'cause they have the same last name, but your post reminded me of Guy Davis, who's also a way, way better writer than I imagined. I just recently picked up the trade The Marquis, and holy shit, was it ever good. I've always liked his work, but this series pretty much blew me away.

It's about a fictionalized version of 18th century France, where a devoutly religious guy decides to start hunting the demons that possess the townspeople. Naturally, things aren't quite that simple.

It's worth getting for the architectural drawings alone, and if you like monsters/the occult/weird religious stuff, then this is a keeper, for sure. It took Davis over 10 years to do the whole thing, and it shows.

marquisinferno.jpg
 

darcotrigger

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I've been complaining about that to anyone who'll listen since it happened, and I remain stunned that most comic book fans just blithely swallowed an arbitrary 33% price increase on the hobby they love.

That said, at least DC gives you extra content for the dollar. In Detective, I've really been loving the Question story, and in Streets of Gotham, you get a really great Manhunter backup.

Marvel has even more books at $3.99, but with no new content whatsoever. Even worse, they abuse every possible excuse to do some kind of anniversary issue and then charge more for it. If the book was $2.99, the 'special' issue is four bucks, and if it was $4 to begin with, it becomes a whopping $5, often with very little additional content. New Avengers was pretty terrible for this... Issue 50 was five bucks, and I swear it only had a few extra pages.

Because of this, I've been dropping a lot of Marvel titles (and not picking up any new ones) in favour of DC books. I can't get enough of the likes of Batman and Robin, Detective, and JLA: Cry For Justice anyway.


I have to agree. At first the price increase didn't bother me but seeing as how my file was like 90% marvel, it added up rather quickly.

Books like Captain America 50,100 (back to back?!), Hulk 600, New Avengers 50, Spider-man 600, ect made me drop a whole bunch of Marvel titles. The only one I didn't end up feeling ashamed of shelling for was Giant Size Old Man Logan. Now my file is like maybe 1/10th of the size it was a few months ago.

At any rate, mad props for reccomending Batman & Robin. That book is pretty much everything that is good about comics. I wish I could just hook it to my veins.
 

Taiso

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Speaking of Batman & Robin, is Frank Quitely off the book? Or is Phillip Tan just drawing this arc to give Quitely time to do some more issues later? It doesn't change the quality of the comic one bit but I'm just curious about this, is all.
 

HeartlessNinny

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Speaking of Batman & Robin, is Frank Quitely off the book? Or is Phillip Tan just drawing this arc to give Quitely time to do some more issues later? It doesn't change the quality of the comic one bit but I'm just curious about this, is all.

No, he's not gone, he's just not a monthly artist. After Phillip Tan, another guy is gonna do 3 issues (I forget who, but I remember thinking it was a quality artist), then Quitely is gonna come back for the final three.

I just hope it's not really the final three, and Morrison sticks around to do some more. Such a brilliant comic should go on longer. :(
 

Taiso

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I had no idea this was a 12 issue series. Usually, for limited series, under the issue number they'll put a 'of X', where 'X' is the final issue in the series.

I'm surprised this isn't gonna be an indefinite book. I rather liked the idea of a comic dedicated to Batman's adventures with Robin and another book focusing solely on Batman with occasional appearances by the other characters in the Batman family.

I just read Ultimate Comics Spider-Man #3 and I have to say I don't think I've ever liked Bendis' work quite as much as I do on this title. He really seems to have a handle on the Ultimate version of Spidey.

All of the Ultimate relaunch titles so far are pretty good. I'm very intrigued by how things will go in the wake of Ultimatum.
 

SouthtownKid

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Marvel has even more books at $3.99, but with no new content whatsoever. Even worse, they abuse every possible excuse to do some kind of anniversary issue and then charge more for it.
Even worse than that was that a Marvel rep admitted at a shareholders meeting or something that they didn't even raise prices due to cost increases on their end. They just wanted to see if the market would take it.
 

HeartlessNinny

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Even worse than that was that a Marvel rep admitted at a shareholders meeting or something that they didn't even raise prices due to cost increases on their end. They just wanted to see if the market would take it.

I know!! When that little gem came out, I thought for sure that fans would cry bloody murder, and everyone would talk about dropping all Marvel titles (after all, that's what fanboys always say). But no. No reaction whatsoever.

Marvel decided to fuck us in the ass just to see if they could, and we all basically thanked them for the privilege. It makes me sick.

EDIT: The thing that really kills me is that the comics industry is kind of in the midst of a bubble right now, with increased revenue and interest due to all the movies. That won't last forever, though. So what Marvel's really doing here is extracting as much short term profit as they possibly can, at the expense of the direct market. As I've said a few times, my friend owns a comic store, and this kind of shit really keeps him up at night.

That's because most fans (the ones I've encountered, anyways) tend to just abandon the hobby as soon as things get financially difficult. It seems no one goes, "Well, prices are going up, guess I have to cut back." They go, "Prices are going up, holy shit! I better stop buying all comics." And they do. Sometimes they come back (years later at that), but a lot of the time, they don't.

Marvel is stupidly burning the candle at both ends instead of trying to grow the industry. That's pretty stupid when you're the top dog if you ask me. I can only hope they pulled this stunt to increase their share price to make the buyout more profitable for them, but ultimately I don't think it matters. This stupid price point has been accepted by everybody, so it'll be the norm now. Eventually, all comics will be $3.99, not just some of them. Already every miniseries coming out from Marvel costs this much, even though they promised that wouldn't be the case. That means I don't buy them, with only a few exceptions (right now it's Cap Reborn and The Marvels Project). I'd love to read stuff like the Torch, but I figure I may as well wait for the trade (if I read it at all), since the prices there haven't changed on account of being too damn high already.

Man oh man does this shit piss me off. Almost as much as talking politics with you guys. :)

But what can I say, I actually care about comics. You have to keep your priorities straight after all. :)
 
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HeartlessNinny

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Gah... this talk of price gouging is making me upset. I'll remedy it by going back to the whole best comics ever thing....

I can't believe I forgot to mention this, but it's on the short list of my favourite comics ever too.

Lone Wolf and Cub, by Kazuo Koike and Goseki Kojima

artgoseki.jpg


This tale is as epic as it gets, spanning 28 volumes at 300 pages a pop. It starts as a serial story, then gets episodic. It's a pretty amazing story of fatherhood, being a warrior, and overcoming impossible odds. I pretty much love it. And, like all the series I love, the ending was particularly moving.



Here's some honourable mentions that no one's pointed out yet:

Dean Motter's Mister X

14092.jpg




Matt Wagner's Grendel (Surprised that one's not on your list, STK.)

grendel_0.jpg




Ed Brubaker's run on Catwoman

darwyn+cooke.+catwoman.+001.jpg




Transmetropolitan, by Warren Ellis and Darick Robertson

transmetropolitan_1.jpg




Madman, by Mike Allred

madmanac15_c1.jpg





If we're gonna talk about whole series, or runs on series, those are definitely some of my all-time favourites, along with the ones I already mentioned.
 

alphagamer

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Transmetropolitan is cool, though I only read a few issues.

They rape us here in Europe with import prices.
 

BigTinz

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You know who kicks everyone's ass?


cap_reb.jpg


CAPTAIN CONFEDERACY
 

genjiglove

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Are you sure Batman and Robin is only a 12 issue series? I don't remember ever reading that.
 

SouthtownKid

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I'm almost positive Morrison is only doing the book for 12 issues. Whether they plan to let the series end successfully with the writer people are buying the book for after 12 issues, or are planning to try to continue the series beyond Morrison and let it flounder painfully under another writer, like Marvel has done with Astonishing X-Men, I do not know.

I'm pretty sure Bruce Wayne will be back by then anyway, so it would be a different book, even if they kept it going.
 

genjiglove

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like Marvel has done with Astonishing X-Men

I've enjoyed Warren Ellis on Astonishing so far. I could live without Simone Bianchi but hes gone now anyway. I like Bianchi for covers but when he does interior art it just doesn't flow well. Phil Jiminez is taking over for him though, I'm looking forward to that.

On an unrelated topic, Akira and Ghost in the Shell are getting reprinted from a company called Kodansha so I guess Dark Horse no longer has the rights to it them. I'm glad Akira is coming back, I bought the first two volumes a few years ago but never go around to finishing the series and now they are hard to find. I wonder if this new version is retranslated.
 

SouthtownKid

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Kodansha is the original publisher, so maybe. I just hope they re-letter Akira. Orzechowski did a great job on Ghost in the Shell (and all the Shirow stuff), but Dark Horse's version of Akira was like a stick in the eye. The sound effects were so fucking awful and jarring. No attempt whatsoever was made to make them fit with the art or match the tone of the original. Otomo can not have been happy with the job they did on that. I remember looking through the first Dark Horse hardcover in Barnes & Noble and being in a bad mood for the rest of the day.
 

Taiso

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Kodansha is the original publisher, so maybe. I just hope they re-letter Akira. Orzechowski did a great job on Ghost in the Shell (and all the Shirow stuff), but Dark Horse's version of Akira was like a stick in the eye. The sound effects were so fucking awful and jarring. No attempt whatsoever was made to make them fit with the art or match the tone of the original. Otomo can not have been happy with the job they did on that. I remember looking through the first Dark Horse hardcover in Barnes & Noble and being in a bad mood for the rest of the day.

I am happy to hear that they are reprinting this again as well. I will be picking it up this week.

I still have all my Epic issues, but I've never experienced the series in its original B&W so this is my chance, it seems.
 

aria

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Anyone mention Maus as one of their all-time favorites? Classic. I re-read parts of it today.

I also really liked LW&C and Nausicaa.
 

HeartlessNinny

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I've enjoyed Warren Ellis on Astonishing so far. I could live without Simone Bianchi but hes gone now anyway. I like Bianchi for covers but when he does interior art it just doesn't flow well. Phil Jiminez is taking over for him though, I'm looking forward to that.

Yeah, I agree. Ellis's X-Men has secretly been the best book to feature the main team for some time now, probably because it was so horribly late. And though the Whedon/Cassaday run was flawed (and also late), it had its moments for sure.

That said, the Morrison stuff was much better, warts and all. I still fondly remember it, even if it seems kind of hip to bash it these days.

Anyone mention Maus as one of their all-time favorites? Classic. I re-read parts of it today.

There's another great comic I've never read. Man, until this thread, I considered myself pretty up on most good comics... O vanity, you've made a fool of me yet again. :emb:
 

aria

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There's another great comic I've never read. Man, until this thread, I considered myself pretty up on most good comics... O vanity, you've made a fool of me yet again. :emb:

Maus made it on many high school summer reading lists as well as college courses. Don't let that put you off, its because its such a well-written account; the only other comic I know that had that kind of impact was Persepolis.
 

LoneSage

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My library only has the first volume of Maus, and I'm too poor to get the second one. But yeah, excellent piece of work.
 

Taiso

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Maus is simply a phenomenal work. Anyone that reads comics or is interested in the Holocaust at all should read it. Period.

1986 was really a banner year for comics:

Watchmen
Batman: The Dark Knight Returns
Maus (originally serialized in 1980 so it's kind of a cheat to include it here, but not compiled in GN form until 1986)

Three of the most important works in the history of the medium, all in the same year. Wow.

Thoughts on Loeb as a writer (not an attack):

I just finished up Spider-Man: Blue and have to say that I really enjoyed it. Between this and The Hulk: Gray, I think I've finally figured out what it is I like and dislike about Jeph Loeb as a comics writer.

I think Loeb really has a good handle on the basic core concept of the character he's writing:

Hulk=tormented monster, hunted by a world that doesn't understand him, prone to fits of rage, loves Betty Ross but is mortal enemies with her father. Banner versus the Hulk for the right to choose who gets to exist.

The Hulk originally started out as a Jekyll and Hyde type of character. The original incarnation of the Hulk was so much the anti-hero, he was practically a villain. But obviously, due to the evolution of the character throughout the years and, I'm sure, marketing directives, the perception that defines him is that of the misunderstood misanthrope.

Loeb pretty much nails all of this with Hulk: Gray. I don't like his treatment of Iron Man in that book (I thought he could have handled that encounter in a way that didn't compromise Iron Man or his fans and still had the same outcome), and I think his portrayal of Betty is a bit too strong willed and independent for what the character was at the time, but despite these things it's still a very good read.

Likewise, with Spider-Man: Blue, Loeb seems to get the character:

Peter Parker is the classic nerd with an amazing gift: isn't accepted by his less intelligent peers, lacks confidence, doesn't know how to connect with girls, has no friends and has massive guilt over events that have transpired due to his own inaction. But when he puts on the mask, he gets to be the person he wants to be. The hero and the savior who frustrates the bullies because they can't contain him or control him (Jameson.) He has everything as Spidey that he never can as Peter....except a life.

Loeb also recognizes that, over the years, Peter has fallen into some incredibly bad luck with women that should have all been sure things for him: Betty Brant hooked up with Ned Leeds, Gwen Stacey died, Mary Jane Watson sacrificed her individuality to be with him only to understand that he can never give her that same degree of priority, Felicia Hardy's insane and so on.

Loeb always manages to break the character down to its essential and write from that base.

Where Loeb frustrates me is in his inability to respect the universe the character exists in. More specifically, he will compromise anything and everything that he has to in order to tell the story he wants to tell. Sometimes, this means writing the other characters that sometimes cross paths with the protgonist in a method that I don't consider honest to those other characters' roots or essence at all.

One only need read the 'red Hulk' arc to know what I mean by this. While emminently enjoyable to me and a blast to read, it would not be an exaggeration to say he's disrespecting some of the other characters and the fans by his sometimes shoddy treatment of those characters.

I've never believed that the integrity of the other characters needs to be compromised in order to make your protagonist compelling.

In Amazing Spider-Man 600, you have Spidey being talked down to by Daredevil...in his own book! And yet, nowhere during that conversation do I feel that Spidey is put in a position of weakness, nor do I feel Daredevil is written out of character at any point. Both characters' integrity is preserved.

I remember reading somewhere that Loeb once said (paraphrasing here): I'm just trying to write the best story I can.

But I don't think that's really true. I think he's trying to remake the characters in the way that he feels they should be portrayed. In his head, the Hulk should be the most powerful, so he writes the Hulk that way. But the Hulk doesn't exist in his own separate version of the MU, and sometimes I think Loeb just doesn't care, and I also thnk that his name has enough marquee value that the editors let him slide on stuff that, say, Fred Van Lente might not be able to get away with at this point in his career.

Loeb has written some stunning work that is nearly flawless, no question. The Long Halloween is a great Batman story arc, Dark Victory is nearly as good, the Marvel 'color' books have been good so far and there are some others that I'm missing.

I think the best thing for Loeb to do, personally, is for him to get back to writing stories about the character whose book he's working on and stop trying to make every issue he writes a crossover extravaganza. It just feels gimmicky and he tends to lose a handle on things when he does that.

Speaking of crossover extravaganas, peeps should take a look at Alan Davis' "Fantastic Four: The End.' Very well handled book that deals with the Marvel Universee as a whole in excellent fashion.

My .02 on Loeb.
 
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OrochiEddie

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I guess I'm not surprised, but it's funny how essentially everything big that went down in Civil War has effectively been reversed.

Marvel's bane is not being able to progress anywhere, it is eternally in a state of filler.
 

Taiso

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I guess I'm not surprised, but it's funny how essentially everything big that went down in Civil War has effectively been reversed.

Marvel's bane is not being able to progress anywhere, it is eternally in a state of filler.

Yeah. But some of the reversions are good.

Spider-Man having a public identity was a bad idea from the get go.

And Civil War did lead to some events in Secret Invasion, which led to Dark Reign and that currently has the bad guys in control of everything.

My suspicion is that they can't change things too much because Marvel is a very marketing conscious company and they don't want to alter their characters for very long for that reason.

I'm still calling for Steve Rogers to eventually come back and lead the superheroes to complete victory and restore things to the way they were before Civil War.

You know that with Disney buying the company, they're gonna want things to go back to a status quo before too long.
 
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