Terry, Geese, and the question of fatherhood...

BlackaneseNiNjA

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I was looking at some older threads and saw that I completely missed a statement that was made in regards to Geese being Terry's father. I wanted to take the opportunity to address the position since I have seen this theory before:

http://bohyou.vis.ne.jp/neogeo/fatalfury/kousatu04.htm

An image was previously mentioned that is present in the psx version of Real Bout. This is the aforementioned image:

geese reminisces.JPG
The text reads "Father and child...?...".

However, I wanted to propose that this image was not meant to insinuate that Geese is Terry's father, but rather is an allusion to the abandonment of the paternal relationship between Geese and Rock as he pursued his path of ambition (a story depicted in the images prior to the one above). Aside from the fact that no official materials cite Geese as being father to Terry or Andy (despite the resemblence), the image is simply portraying Geese reminiscing on past times with Terry (prior to Jeff's murder) and perhaps imagining what could have been with regards to his own son, Rock.

Much like Terry, the audio drama "Legend of Geese"* (4 parts) portrays Geese as a wolf looking up and challenging the heavens. Terry and Geese are essentially two halfs of the same coin. Geese and Terry both lost family to South Town, and one easily could have become the other under the right circumstances. The "Before REAL BOUT - Only the loney can be the strongest."** preface was meant to underline this fact and ends with Geese pondering his path (his abandonment of Rock). Of course, as we all know, after beating the game with Terry, Geese chooses death and Terry adopts and raises Geese's son starting a new chapter in South Town...

Lastly, I wanted to propose that the cover also serves as a neat allusion to the parallel fate relationship between Terry and Geese.

rbpsx-front.jpg

Sources:
*"SNK Character Sound Collection Vol. 3 Geese Howard" (Tracks 1, 13, 21, and 30)
** Real Bout Garou Densetsu, game manual (psx version)
 
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wingzrow

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These are some solid observations. Does the 3D PS1 game have anything to say about this? I always though Andy would have turned out to be Geese's son since they look so similar when you compare young geese from Art of Fighting 2.
 

BlackaneseNiNjA

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Thanks wingzrow. Sadly, with the exception of the awesome cg opening movie of the ps1 version, Fatal Fury Wild Ambition tells us very little about Geese himself or his relationship to the bogard brothers.

Of note, is the fact that although Fatal Fury Wild Ambition is a retelling, it isn't a far fetched one. For example, it was established in audio dramas that although she did not fight, Mai Shiranui (<3) was in fact present during the events of FF1 and characters like Duck King played a larger role than one might think. There are also many other named fighters who were present in the tournament but did not make an appearance in the FF1 game.
 
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HeavyMachineGoob

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To this day I am still deeply disappointed that neither Fatal Fury or even King of Fighters never got a dark and gritty manga adaption, or heck, an adaption to anime would have been nice as well.
 

pulstar

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There were a couple of TV specials and an anime film of Fatal Fury... Wouldn't necessarily call them dark or gritty but they're worth a watch, though.
 

ballzdeepx

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I'd like to think Geese is Terry and Andy's father - AOF2 Geese looks just like Andy. Maybe Geese let Jeff "adopt" them while he rose to power and when Jeff didn't give them back, Geese had to straight kill his ass.
 

Electric Grave

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I was the one who made that post, a few times I might add. Who else? lol. I talked about the RB PSX images, the novel where Geese rises to power, well that was DZ, but yeah, Geese is Terry's father.

Geese is Terry's Father, this reflection you're talking about couldn't have been about Rock, it was too soon. Rock didn't come into play until way later. There was a novel about Geese rise to power, this was cannon and written before MOTW, well before it. Terry's mother is a nun, Geese's former squeeze was a nun. It couldn't possibly be Rock's mom as his Mom is Cain's sister. The nun gave up Terry to Jeff so he could guide him on a better path than his father's. Andy is not related to Terry by blood, he's not stroheim either.

I know it's hard to accept, but there's nothing we can do...
 
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BlackaneseNiNjA

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I was the one who made that post, a few times I might add. Who else? lol. I talked about the RB PSX images, the novel where Geese rises to power, well that was DZ,...

Oh ok lol My bad EG, I couldn't remember exactly who mentioned it and couldn't remember what thread it was in (search wasn't much help since "Geese" and "Father" are very popular words in this site lol)

... this reflection you're talking about couldn't have been about Rock, it was too soon. Rock didn't come into play until way later. There was a novel about Geese rise to power, this was cannon and written before MOTW, well before it...

Rock is depicted as early as Terry's ending in Fatal fury 3 (which I am actually open to debating considering the drastic difference in hair color and design :keke:) and was depicted long before even MOTW meaning Rock was always an intended plot point:

4af7f7896e1c45bb5550b03deee7bdc9861c6d62.png

maxresdefault.jpg

The early meeting post Fatal Fury 3 is confirmed to be canon in "Memories of Stray Wolves", wherein Mary states that Terry met Rock in between the events of Fatal Fury 3 and Real Bout 1: (see 9:05)


Additionally, in the same drama, Terry confirms that it is Geese who technically made him who he was and that his desire to have revenge against Geese is what drove him to want to be stronger than anyone. No paternal relationship is inferred between Terry and Geese, only a metaphorical one. The japanese fanbase also speculated on Geese's relationship to one or both of the bogard brothers, but SNK never confirmed a relationship, thus rendering any speculation to a blood relationship non-canon. Canonically, only the "mysterious orphan" that Terry encountered prior to the events of MOTW (later revealed to be Rock) was established to be Geese's offspring in plot materials that followed.
 
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Electric Grave

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The pic where Geese is looking at the photo happens before then end of RBF, RBF is a retelling/reboot of FF so in some ways you could imply that RB is before FF3 in terms of canon. Too much of a coincidence for this not to be so.

Edit: We could say Terry has been helping some kid for a while, in FFS, in the movie, etc. None of those were Rock, does FF3 acknowledges this kid as rock or is it insinuated?
 
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BlackaneseNiNjA

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The pic where Geese is looking at the photo happens before then end of RBF, RBF is a retelling/reboot of FF so in some ways you could imply that RB is before FF3 in terms of canon. Too much of a coincidence for this not to be so.

Edit: We could say Terry has been helping some kid for a while, in FFS, in the movie, etc. None of those were Rock, does FF3 acknowledges this kid as rock or is it insinuated?

After the release of "Memories of Stray Wolves" and the timeline/canon events listing presented in "All About SNK Taisen Kakutou Game 1991-2000" game history book, the events of FF3 are stated to take place prior to those depicted in real bout 1. Since Geese is alive looking at the photo, the image is, of course, prior to his death. However, Geese is shown looking at the photo after the destruction of the Jin Scrolls (shown on the preceding page in the Real Bout PSX manual; pg 16) which places this event after the events of FF3.

Concerning the appearance of the child in Terry's ending in FF3, I am always willing to debate that this child may or may not actually have been intended to be Rock (perhaps Jin Chonshu?). However, "Memories of Stray Wolves" pretty much eliminates any wiggle room there may have been with that argument. Since Mary confirms that Terry met Rock after the confrontations in FF3, this lends support for the position that the child in Terry's FF3 ending is indeed Rock Howard. However...

Off Topic: ...when we consider the drastically different design used in FF3 and the child's ownership of a blue hat in Terry's endings, I think that plans for that child changed by the time MOTW came into existence due to continuity issues that appear afterwards: Fatal Fury and the Fuu'un series Chung continuity
 
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Electric Grave

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Let's be honest here for a second. So Rock came into the picture, that doesn't mean that every child Terry has been helping all along is Rock, there were several kids. Terry is cool with kids, is it an allusion to Jesus? No, it's just Terry being Terry.
 

BlackaneseNiNjA

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Let's be honest here for a second. So Rock came into the picture, that doesn't mean that every child Terry has been helping all along is Rock, there were several kids. Terry is cool with kids, is it an allusion to Jesus? No, it's just Terry being Terry.

It is true that Terry has a soft spot for kids, but he doesn't go around adopting and raising them all though. Even in the anime (not canon), he turned down Tony. The same "All About SNK" guide I mentioned earlier confirms that not only is the child from terry's endings in ff3, rb1, and rb2 the same kid, but that the appearances are in fact Rock Howard (pg 389; lower left corner). I just think Rock's drastic design shift from ff3 to rb1 is rather funny/intersting. :lolz:

At any rate, you and I need to debate this stuff over some drinks one day :buttrock:
 

BlackaneseNiNjA

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Hell yeah AJ's got me covered :buttrock: I should have it all set up during this weekend
 

Gyrian

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This is an interesting theory that persists because there is so much wiggle room left in the "canon". It's never outright proven or disproven by what's there. SNK could very well one day retcon this fact without having to override any prior revelations. Hard to tell what might've happened next story wise without the bankruptcy, as we would have certainly continued getting more Fatal Fury games close enough after Garou.

BTW, great job laying out this entire case in one place, guys.
 

Electric Grave

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Ive given him all the tools to get into fighcade, now we must wait
My Ninja, you need to get on this with us!

AJ, I'm gonna jump for some games tonight, wanna join?

It's been a while, I need to flake the rust and let that SUPER DDT shine!...or we can wobba wobba and get in the pink if you wanna, lol.

When Iwas into MUGEN, I put together a FFS vs Karvnov's, they go so well together, would have been fun to see it happen officially, like in NGBC.

Edit: AJ never misses a beat...
 

Heinz

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This thread makes me realise it has been a very long time since I've seen a proper ending in a Neo title. :emb:
 

BlackaneseNiNjA

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To this day I am still deeply disappointed that neither Fatal Fury or even King of Fighters never got a dark and gritty manga adaption, or heck, an adaption to anime would have been nice as well.

There's actually a lot of Fatal Fury mangas to choose from. Although many are of the gag and 4-koma variety, the Fatal Fury manga series by Hosoi Yuuji covering ff1, ff2, and ff3 is pretty good (if not a bit dated). The kof novels are also REALLY good too. I'm sure there are fan translations out there.

This is an interesting theory that persists because there is so much wiggle room left in the "canon". It's never outright proven or disproven by what's there. SNK could very well one day retcon this fact without having to override any prior revelations. Hard to tell what might've happened next story wise without the bankruptcy, as we would have certainly continued getting more Fatal Fury games close enough after Garou.

Indeed. With the possibility of a new Garou game rumored about, the current producers admitting that they are unsure of the exact details regarding Rock's mother, and the fact that they're not afraid to mix old and new plot points, anything is possible. Hell, we've already seen Vice and Mature return from the dead in the kof series so I'd say the sky's the limit when it comes to retcons :lolz:


My Ninja, you need to get on this with us!

For sure! I'll work on the setup later tonight.

This thread makes me realise it has been a very long time since I've seen a proper ending in a Neo title. :emb:

Do I sense a fatal fury playthrough in your future? :cool:
 

AJtheMishima

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I went to sleep since i had to work today. Ill be home early today like 3 pm if you wanna catch some game, either of you guys that is. Dude FFS vs KR sounds sick!!!!
Just pm me or text me if you wanna play
 

Electric Grave

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@AJ, cool! I was in last night playing some ST and KOF 2000, it's hard to come back in full swing but it was fun.

Down to play some early games for sure, I'll text you and log in around 3 to see if you're around.
 

AJtheMishima

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@AJ, cool! I was in last night playing some ST and KOF 2000, it's hard to come back in full swing but it was fun.

Down to play some early games for sure, I'll text you and log in around 3 to see if you're around.

Dude, kof 2000 is so fun. Been a hot minute since ive played it. Well im open for some games when i get home tonight before i mess around with the bartop some more tonight
 
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