SVC Vs CVS VS MoTM
- Thread starter GregN
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GregN. said:
You're going to get some people crying foul when they don't see CVS1 on here (which I believe is the way next gen bgs should be made).
Anyway, nothing captured the charm of the worlds colliding like MOTM.
Shame really, I'm sure the old SNK could have done a better SVC: Chaos.
MegaDrive20XX
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I VOTED for Mark of The Wolves of course, but what is SNK Vs. Capcom: MOTW? Do you mean if the SVC game would have looked and played like MOTW or is that a type-0 and you just meant to put regular Garou: MOTW as one of the selections on the poll to what you felt is a better game?
Either way while I love SVC Chaos, even the way it plays being a trip down memory lane to the one-on-one only no rolls basics... I'd have to say that none can argue the awesomeness of MOTW. Now hopefully by the time I check my mail my MVS cart of it will have come in today.
MERCENARY X99
Either way while I love SVC Chaos, even the way it plays being a trip down memory lane to the one-on-one only no rolls basics... I'd have to say that none can argue the awesomeness of MOTW. Now hopefully by the time I check my mail my MVS cart of it will have come in today.
MERCENARY X99
D
Devils Child
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I don't think SvC Chaos is so bad. It has been ripped by lots of people but I stick by my original statements about how it was what any SNK or Capcom fanboy wanted to see happen for the greater part of the 90s, and now that is arrives, instead of over-analyzing and bastardizing the game, we should all just grab a joystick and play. Shame that the Neo couldn't push it further, more like Garou, but it did what it did and we got what it gave, so play.
MegaDrive20XX
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the roker said:
DOH!
*Serves me right for seeing an "W" instead of an "M", but I have mild dyslexia anyhow so ya know...
MERCENARY X99
SonGohan said:
You should vote for it then.
CvS2 all the way.
I ended up trying to play SvC again this weekend against some friends of mine and after getting to spend some extended time with it he also came to the conclusion that it really starts to suck after a short period of time.
CvS2 > Any Neo Fighter that came out after 1999.
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Mr. Mainstream is at it again... 
Man, if KoF2k would be only half as bad as KoF2k2, it still would be double as good as CvS2, and about 4.5 times as good as RotD, so this means that CvS2 is far superior to RotD (with a factor of -2.5), and...
wait...
* scratches head
...okay, nevermind, what I meant is that KoF2k1 (and even 2k to some extend) OWN CvS2 any day of the week, so say ba-ba to your theory.
Man, if KoF2k would be only half as bad as KoF2k2, it still would be double as good as CvS2, and about 4.5 times as good as RotD, so this means that CvS2 is far superior to RotD (with a factor of -2.5), and...
wait...
* scratches head
...okay, nevermind, what I meant is that KoF2k1 (and even 2k to some extend) OWN CvS2 any day of the week, so say ba-ba to your theory.
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Takumaji said:Mr. Mainstream is at it again...
Man, if KoF2k would be only half as bad as KoF2k2, it still would be double as good as CvS2, and about 4.5 times as good as RotD, so this means that CvS2 is far superior to RotD (with a factor of -2.5), and...
wait...
* scratches head
...okay, nevermind, what I meant is that KoF2k1 (and even 2k to some extend) OWN CvS2 any day of the week, so say ba-ba to your theory.
I *heart* Takumaji
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Easily MOTM, why SNK didn't port that to the MVS is still beyond me... damn great game!
-Nick
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SvC: MOTM hands down
It's the only game I know of where Billy and Vega actually acknowledge each other.. It's a taunt but still!
It's the only game I know of where Billy and Vega actually acknowledge each other.. It's a taunt but still!
NeoTheranthrope
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Domino-chan said:SvC: MOTM hands down
It's the only game I know of where Billy and Vega actually acknowledge each other.. It's a taunt but still!
Uh, yeah...
but in only one place: the opening animation of Geese vs M Bison (and that's only in versis or training mode, not story)
But that's apperently enough to induce fangirl frenzy in certain people (who shall remain nameless...)
Anyway, another vote for MOTM simply due to the sheer fun-factor over the other two and 'cause I can kick ass with evil Nakoruru (she's so underpowered in the other VS games).
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JHendrix said:You should vote for it then.
CvS2 all the way.
I ended up trying to play SvC again this weekend against some friends of mine and after getting to spend some extended time with it he also came to the conclusion that it really starts to suck after a short period of time.
CvS2 > Any Neo Fighter that came out after 1999.
I did vote for it. Strangely enough, I agree with the statement about the Neo fighters after '99, however I have a hard time picking it over 2001. I think I like them equally as much.
I don't think I'd pick 2k2 over it though.
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the roker said:
Another word on that CvS2 > Neo fighters after 1999, well, I should add that I don't hate CvS2 or anything, it can be big fun with some friends for a couple of hours but not as a true VS game but another Capcom title, if you know what I mean. The SNK guys'n'gals play too Capcom-ish for my taste - at least they should have adjusted the timing for moves like dragon punches or supers to SNK level.
That's why choosing a decent team often gives me a hard time because it seems so pointless putting Ryo in it if you simply have to play him like Ryu or Ken to win... that's why I often stick to 2 Cap and 1 SNK chara, teams like Yun-Kim-Guile, Kyosuke-Chun-Joe, etc., or if I'm bored I mop the roster with a ratio-3 Guile.
Gohan, I figured you prolly did but when I cast my vote it came up as the only one for CvS2. I was just jazzin you cause you posted before you voted. 
Tak: I love KOF2k, I think I'd put it as my second or third favorite KOF, behind KOF98 and probably KOF2k2. But no way I'd say any KOF after 98 is better than CvS2. I think they fail when it comes to delivering a better fighter, let alone a better all around experience. Hell I'm not even sure about 98 being all that superior anymore.
CvS2 has it's problems, but I see it as one of the most versitle fighters to be released. I love the groove system, it adds a completely new dynamic to how the game is played, and how you play against different characters/teams in different grooves. There's so much strategy there, so much depth. The are more varients to the matches there. I feel the roster in CvS2 is almost close to perfect.
Compare that with KOF which at least to me feels generally the same every year with these except there's always some kind of new gimmick thrown in to get some kind of "freshness" out of what feels like such a rehash. Granted it's a rehash of a good thing, but the core game doesn't feel that much different from the years before it.
Yes the SNK characters have been "Capcomized" but I don't see that as any kind of a real problem. If anything I find it a wee bit more fun. I don't know much of what you were expecting with a VS. game. The opposing side will always play more like the other, depending on who made the game.
SNK characters feel Capcom like in the CvS games. Capcom characters feel SNK like in SvC. IMO, Capcom did a way better job than SNK ever did when it came to the VS. games. At least their series is playable competition wise.
And what is it with the love for KOF2k1? Yeah it's better than 97 and backwards, but I see it as barely better than 99 and far inferior to KOF98, 2k, and 2k2.
Tak: I love KOF2k, I think I'd put it as my second or third favorite KOF, behind KOF98 and probably KOF2k2. But no way I'd say any KOF after 98 is better than CvS2. I think they fail when it comes to delivering a better fighter, let alone a better all around experience. Hell I'm not even sure about 98 being all that superior anymore.
CvS2 has it's problems, but I see it as one of the most versitle fighters to be released. I love the groove system, it adds a completely new dynamic to how the game is played, and how you play against different characters/teams in different grooves. There's so much strategy there, so much depth. The are more varients to the matches there. I feel the roster in CvS2 is almost close to perfect.
Compare that with KOF which at least to me feels generally the same every year with these except there's always some kind of new gimmick thrown in to get some kind of "freshness" out of what feels like such a rehash. Granted it's a rehash of a good thing, but the core game doesn't feel that much different from the years before it.
Yes the SNK characters have been "Capcomized" but I don't see that as any kind of a real problem. If anything I find it a wee bit more fun. I don't know much of what you were expecting with a VS. game. The opposing side will always play more like the other, depending on who made the game.
SNK characters feel Capcom like in the CvS games. Capcom characters feel SNK like in SvC. IMO, Capcom did a way better job than SNK ever did when it came to the VS. games. At least their series is playable competition wise.
And what is it with the love for KOF2k1? Yeah it's better than 97 and backwards, but I see it as barely better than 99 and far inferior to KOF98, 2k, and 2k2.
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JHendrix said:
Unlike you, I don't love 2k, but I respect it as the last true SNK KoF despite my gripes with the strikers and some gameplay stuff. However, I wouldn't rate it as the worst KoF, this place is reserved for 2k2 on my list, and I'm sure you've read some of my comments about it already so I don't have to go into detail here.
Versatile? Yes, definitely. Depth? Well... yes, there are a tons ot of gameplay elements, the grooves, etc., but depth is not a question of the number of different engine features, it's all about the technical level behind the basic functionality, the way to access this level and a thoughtful implementation of the different core parts of a fighting game engine such as priorities, move damage, combo timing, dizzies, air combat, recovery, guarding, etc...etc... A game can have lots of features but lack depth at the same time - just look at a 3D fighter like Mortal Kombat: Dark Alliance. Some charas have more than 30 to 40 moves spread all over their different fighting styles, but in the end you only have to memorize three or four combos and the Fatality commands to fight effectively, the rest is just show, no substance.... I don't want to compare apples to oranges, it's just to refer to that lots of features = lots of depth thing... on the other hand, a game with less options but a refined engine can have lots of depth, like FFS or KoF98.
Yep, CvS2 offers a lot of stuff to experiment with and that's one of the reasons why I break it out every now and then but what's the point in practising hermetic CvS2 lore and being able to do all sorts of weird stuff in S or K groove if the main teams/charas you will face if you play it competively are (I exaggerate a bit) C groove Blankas, Kens, Ryus, Guiles, Zangiefs and Sagats?
But what's the point in making a VS game where the timing of a certain set of standard moves of 80% of the charas is exactly the same? This way, you only get a SNK sprites vs Capcom sprites game, and that indeed is not what I expected. The same goes for SvC as well.
I don't deny that CvS2 can be played competively but KoF2k and 2k1 (read: some post-99 Neo games) can be, too.
That leads us to the last bit...
it's deep as hell, highly playable and with its improved striker system and a bunch of nice gameplay add-ons it's the best KoF for competitive play since 98 IMO.
I admit that it wasn't like that for me when it came out but after playing it exclusively in 2P for more than three months after my first vs CPU-only impressions, I love it ever since and still play it regularly.
If 2k1 would have the same anim qualities as 99 and a slightly changed roster, it would be hard for 98 to stay on top of my all-time-fave KoF list... ...
Gohan: Could lead to a slight problem since I'm looking to buy a house and I'm in this "Must work overtime every week for a few months". I used to get home early in the morning on Friday's, but now I won't be making it home till like 2:30 on Fridays at the earliest. I'm on during the weekends though, so if you wanted to play on Sat mornings or something just lemme know.
Tak: I'll try and go on the important points. I don't mean to come off sounding like "OMG CVS2 has 6 Grooves! KOF only has one way to play so CVS2 is 6 TIMES BETTER! OMG! ASL! EXSHBOWKZ!!!"
What I mean is exactly what you're refering to: "it's all about the technical level behind the basic functionality, the way to access this level and a thoughtful implementation of the different core parts of a fighting game engine such as priorities, move damage, combo timing, dizzies, air combat, recovery, guarding, etc...etc..."
CvS2 has this in spades. The Groove system allows different characters to be played in a variety of ways. K Groove lends it self to insanely damaging rush downs, and a great way to quickly turn back offensive pressure (JD). C Groove allows for a much more defensive way to play, kind of like reactive pressure. Where you'll play more on their mistakes than on your own full out offense.
Different characters in different grooves do different things. So it's like you say just about any fighting game has more moves than a character is worth. All you need is to just memorize a few B&B combo's and you're set, this is true for ANY fighting game. On top of that I'd say that CvS2 has a bit of a refined engine in how it handles the game, which IMO just adds to it's greatness.
I think you had a wee bit too high of an expectation of the VS. games. I mean fundamentally what you wanted was Capcom characters in Capcom style vs. SNK characters in SNK style. The thing just doesn't really work with out serious modification. One side would invariably have such an advantage over another. I think Capcom addressed this as best they could with the Groove system, it allows for a meshing of game mechanics while keeping a set of balances that keeps the game from falling apart.
As for the KOF's, well I don't want to get into that so deeply but other than the fact that 2k1 allows you to pull out SDM's easily w/o activation (which is a gripe of mine from other games that don't allow this), I'd say it's about as playable as 2k was. I still don't like 2k1's striker system at all. I prefer it to kinda be all or nothing, where 2k has it as "all" and 99 has it as "nothing" where strikers are concerned. I mean yeah Iori has XXX number of ways to follow up from his QCB+P combo(s), but I just don't see it as some great deep KOF.
Well considering I'm a 2k2 KOF kinda guy and you're a 2k1 KOF kinda guy, it's not too surprizing we disagree.
Tak: I'll try and go on the important points. I don't mean to come off sounding like "OMG CVS2 has 6 Grooves! KOF only has one way to play so CVS2 is 6 TIMES BETTER! OMG! ASL! EXSHBOWKZ!!!"
What I mean is exactly what you're refering to: "it's all about the technical level behind the basic functionality, the way to access this level and a thoughtful implementation of the different core parts of a fighting game engine such as priorities, move damage, combo timing, dizzies, air combat, recovery, guarding, etc...etc..."
CvS2 has this in spades. The Groove system allows different characters to be played in a variety of ways. K Groove lends it self to insanely damaging rush downs, and a great way to quickly turn back offensive pressure (JD). C Groove allows for a much more defensive way to play, kind of like reactive pressure. Where you'll play more on their mistakes than on your own full out offense.
Different characters in different grooves do different things. So it's like you say just about any fighting game has more moves than a character is worth. All you need is to just memorize a few B&B combo's and you're set, this is true for ANY fighting game. On top of that I'd say that CvS2 has a bit of a refined engine in how it handles the game, which IMO just adds to it's greatness.
I think you had a wee bit too high of an expectation of the VS. games. I mean fundamentally what you wanted was Capcom characters in Capcom style vs. SNK characters in SNK style. The thing just doesn't really work with out serious modification. One side would invariably have such an advantage over another. I think Capcom addressed this as best they could with the Groove system, it allows for a meshing of game mechanics while keeping a set of balances that keeps the game from falling apart.
As for the KOF's, well I don't want to get into that so deeply but other than the fact that 2k1 allows you to pull out SDM's easily w/o activation (which is a gripe of mine from other games that don't allow this), I'd say it's about as playable as 2k was. I still don't like 2k1's striker system at all. I prefer it to kinda be all or nothing, where 2k has it as "all" and 99 has it as "nothing" where strikers are concerned. I mean yeah Iori has XXX number of ways to follow up from his QCB+P combo(s), but I just don't see it as some great deep KOF.
Well considering I'm a 2k2 KOF kinda guy and you're a 2k1 KOF kinda guy, it's not too surprizing we disagree.
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Hey Hendrix, here's some little recordings I did with Terry, try 'em out
http://snkguitarist.com/misc/Picture 202.mpg
http://snkguitarist.com/misc/Picture 203.mpg
I recorded with my new digicam. I turned the quality all the way down so they'd be small files (around 200k, I think). There's some cool followups to experiment with.
http://snkguitarist.com/misc/Picture 202.mpg
http://snkguitarist.com/misc/Picture 203.mpg
I recorded with my new digicam. I turned the quality all the way down so they'd be small files (around 200k, I think). There's some cool followups to experiment with.
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Well... perhaps I have only played CvS2 against scrubs, or I'm a CvS2 scrub myself, I dunno... I can't seem to see this depth you're talking about in the game, Jimi. It's versatile and offers some interesting strategy/groove combinations that were unheard of before (for ex. Samsho vs. KoF features, etc.) but that's about it for me.
Perhaps I'm a lil' overly analytical again... one of my weak spots...
About that "KoF2k1 kinda guy", yep, guess that's correct in this case (2k1 vs 2k2). 2k1 just totally fits my overall offensive playing style, its engine feels explosive yet highly controllable at the same time... hard to explain. I love the Wire Attacks, the cheesy supercancels, the fact that Kyokugen whores are in heaven with 2k1, the partly reworked striker combos (that were simply no fun anymore in 2k)... anything but artwork, endings and sound. These are very important aspects as well but their importance pales in comparison to what you get in terms of replay value and overall gameplay goodness.
Perhaps I'm a lil' overly analytical again... one of my weak spots...
About that "KoF2k1 kinda guy", yep, guess that's correct in this case (2k1 vs 2k2). 2k1 just totally fits my overall offensive playing style, its engine feels explosive yet highly controllable at the same time... hard to explain. I love the Wire Attacks, the cheesy supercancels, the fact that Kyokugen whores are in heaven with 2k1, the partly reworked striker combos (that were simply no fun anymore in 2k)... anything but artwork, endings and sound. These are very important aspects as well but their importance pales in comparison to what you get in terms of replay value and overall gameplay goodness.
SonGohan said:
Aye I am well aware of these things, but you know I didn't practice those followups from the buster wolf, I'll have to do that tommorrow when I get to play again. I did get those nice jump in's down pat with the close C -> Buster wolf (now there's one of those things where the timing feels so different for the same combo in CvS2 than in the SNK games where it came from like Tak was saying). My only problem now is setting UP for those jump in combo's during matches.
I almost forgot about that good stuff there though follow-up wise, lately I've just been trying to work out what kind of style of play I should settle on. Just having a hard time getting through some very good turtle players on Live.
Takumaji said:
And the Lord looked down on Takumaji, and he said the 11th commandment: Thou shalt buy an XBox and XBox Live.
Takumaji said:
Perhaps I'm a lil' overly analytical again... one of my weak spots...
About that "KoF2k1 kinda guy", yep, guess that's correct in this case (2k1 vs 2k2). 2k1 just totally fits my overall offensive playing style, its engine feels explosive yet highly controllable at the same time... hard to explain. I love the Wire Attacks, the cheesy supercancels, the fact that Kyokugen whores are in heaven with 2k1, the partly reworked striker combos (that were simply no fun anymore in 2k)... anything but artwork, endings and sound. These are very important aspects as well but their importance pales in comparison to what you get in terms of replay value and overall gameplay goodness.
In KOF I generally like to play an overly rushdown type game, and I still don't like 2k1 over 2k2. In 2k2 and 98 I feel the speed really lets me get into a good rushdown groove that keeps the pressure on.
Funny thing is I try to do this in CvS2 too much which gets my ass killed, of course turtling gets my ass killed too, so I need to find a balance but that's a whole nother thread.
David Fallows
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Re: Re: SVC Vs CVS VS MoTM
Too fucking true man. Too true.
I voted for SNK Vs Capcom: MotM
the roker said:
Too fucking true man. Too true.
I voted for SNK Vs Capcom: MotM