Sun Shine / Block Paradise on eBay

Tempest

Galford's Armourer
Joined
Jun 3, 2003
Posts
471
It's sitting in a collector's drawer AND a select few's hard-drives (for them to masturbate to, obviously)
As long as they're masturbating ON the prototype I'm fine with that. Preserved but unreleased prototypes usually get made public eventually. People sell, prototypes change hands, people change their minds, etc. Just need to be patient.
 

Fygee

Bewbs! Z'OMG, Teh BEWBS!,
20 Year Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2001
Posts
2,953
Your optimism is blinding.
Every now and then, the internet surprises us with something awesome.

Probably foolish optimism on my part, but to me it's a matter of when, not if.
 

Digmac

Official NG Youngun
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Posts
1,932
Every now and then, the internet surprises us with something awesome.

Probably foolish optimism on my part, but to me it's a matter of when, not if.
In the Neo Geo community, it’s a matter of if when people like Billy Pitt/SuperGun are in it.
 

kidchameLeon1

Mickey's Coach
Joined
Dec 19, 2017
Posts
590
In the Neo Geo community, it’s a matter of if when people like Billy Pitt/SuperGun are in it.
Because of Billy we have all of the info on the proto's & we have Ghostlop. If Billy is holding onto anything, it is for the purpose of using it as bait to lure more protos out, not to be a dick. I am sure he has made provisions for anything he has to be eventually released. Again, because of him, we have Ghostlop which otherwise would still be hidden away.
 

Digmac

Official NG Youngun
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Posts
1,932
Because of Billy we have all of the info on the proto's & we have Ghostlop. If Billy is holding onto anything, it is for the purpose of using it as bait to lure more protos out, not to be a dick. I am sure he has made provisions for anything he has to be eventually released. Again, because of him, we have Ghostlop which otherwise would still be hidden away.
He didn’t want to release Ghostlop. Read his interview about Ghostlop, dude. He said it was the biggest mistake he ever made, selling it off. He doesn’t want to share the meat & potatoes so to speak, the actual games.

Also, I shared more info on QP and Warlocks, the actual games, than Pitt did due to my translation work. If he really wanted to share the most info possible, there’s more things he could do.
 

kidchameLeon1

Mickey's Coach
Joined
Dec 19, 2017
Posts
590
He didn’t want to release Ghostlop. Read his interview about Ghostlop, dude. He said it was the biggest mistake he ever made, selling it off. He doesn’t want to share the meat & potatoes so to speak, the actual games.

Also, I shared more info on QP and Warlocks, the actual games, than Pitt did due to my translation work. If he really wanted to share the most info possible, there’s more things he could do.
Yep I do understand that he regretted it. I also understand why he would keep a proto as bait, it kind of makes sense (this is coming from someone who wants to see them all released!) My preferred way to go about this is of course what turf masta did with Dragons Heaven, just release it for everyone to enjoy. I can imagine the "elite buzz" of owning one of the proto's, knowing you are the only person with the ability to play it. Personally, if I ever found myself in that position, I'd get a much better buzz from releasing it. Oh and regarding your work on QP and Warlocks, take a look at the threads you made, I personally make sure to thank you every time you make a thread for your excellent contributions!
 

Digmac

Official NG Youngun
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Posts
1,932
Yep I do understand that he regretted it. I also understand why he would keep a proto as bait, it kind of makes sense (this is coming from someone who wants to see them all released!) My preferred way to go about this is of course what turf masta did with Dragons Heaven, just release it for everyone to enjoy. I can imagine the "elite buzz" of owning one of the proto's, knowing you are the only person with the ability to play it. Personally, if I ever found myself in that position, I'd get a much better buzz from releasing it. Oh and regarding your work on QP and Warlocks, take a look at the threads you made, I personally make sure to thank you every time you make a thread for your excellent contributions!
I understand the stance that he has as well, and I don’t want to minimize the massive amount of work that he’s put into Neo prototype documentation. I just think that his attitude is not one to be shared in this community, because if more people had the same mindset he does, we probably wouldn’t have Dragons Heaven or the other prototype versions of released games.
 

Neo Alec

,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2000
Posts
9,263
How much does a physical prototype cartridge decrease in value after the rom becomes public? It's as if it's more coveted when only a few people can play it. Released Neo Geo games already go for insane prices, so unreleased games are treated as if better than gold. It seems some collectors require some extra incentive to share the historical work they've obtained with the world.

I applaud those who have worked to make the game data public for posterity.
 

lachlan

drunk downunder!, aka. Muff Diver.,
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Posts
18,070
How much does a physical prototype cartridge decrease in value after the rom becomes public? It's as if it's more coveted when only a few people can play it. Released Neo Geo games already go for insane prices, so unreleased games are treated as if better than gold. It seems some collectors require some extra incentive to share the historical work they've obtained with the world.

I applaud those who have worked to make the game data public for posterity.
Maybe there's a special sort of deal that needs to be cut to get them over the line, a sexual deal.
 

Tempest

Galford's Armourer
Joined
Jun 3, 2003
Posts
471
How much does a physical prototype cartridge decrease in value after the rom becomes public?
It depends. Obviously people are going to pay more for something that has never been dumped because they either want to play it that badly, or they want to buy it so it can be dumped. Once something has been dumped the value is only for the ownership of the actual prototype, not the privlege of being the only person able to play the prototype. That does add something to the value of the prototype. I'm not saying I like prototype hoarders (I've released every Atari prototype I've owned), but I understand it from an investment standpoint.
 

Fygee

Bewbs! Z'OMG, Teh BEWBS!,
20 Year Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2001
Posts
2,953
How much does a physical prototype cartridge decrease in value after the rom becomes public? It's as if it's more coveted when only a few people can play it. Released Neo Geo games already go for insane prices, so unreleased games are treated as if better than gold. It seems some collectors require some extra incentive to share the historical work they've obtained with the world.

I applaud those who have worked to make the game data public for posterity.
I suppose there's arguments for both.

Keep it secret. Keep it safe. Know that you have a unicorn of an item in, arguably, the most expensive overall video game collecting scene there is. Feel that in doing so, it's value is increased by it's secrecy and mystery, while still letting just enough info out there to keep it discussed and mythologized.

On the other hand, by having such an item that's so secret, the value is just a masturbatory illusion. True value would never be known until it's sold or appraised. It's just "potential" value that goes nowhere because it just sits on a shelf or in a drawer, while also depriving the gaming community of a vital piece of history out of selfishness and greed.

Personally, my view aligns more with the latter.
 

Gmegbln

Edo Express Delivery Guy
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Posts
349
I suppose there's arguments for both.

Keep it secret. Keep it safe. Know that you have a unicorn of an item in, arguably, the most expensive overall video game collecting scene there is. Feel that in doing so, it's value is increased by it's secrecy and mystery, while still letting just enough info out there to keep it discussed and mythologized.

On the other hand, by having such an item that's so secret, the value is just a masturbatory illusion. True value would never be known until it's sold or appraised. It's just "potential" value that goes nowhere because it just sits on a shelf or in a drawer, while also depriving the gaming community of a vital piece of history out of selfishness and greed.

Personally, my view aligns more with the latter.

It'll always be a shitty thing to do, period. This is people's hard work that could be analyzed and enjoyed, but is being prevented from seeing the light of day because some random person so happened to stumble across it and open their wallet, who also doesn't own anything related to the intellectual property or software rights of what was made. If not release it, then show off what it actually is and provide some cultural value you leeches, if you can afford a proto you can afford an elgato.
 

donluca

Camel Slug
Joined
Aug 19, 2015
Posts
515
On the other hand, by having such an item that's so secret, the value is just a masturbatory illusion. True value would never be known until it's sold or appraised. It's just "potential" value that goes nowhere because it just sits on a shelf or in a drawer, while also depriving the gaming community of a vital piece of history out of selfishness and greed.

Personally, my view aligns more with the latter.

One thing that I always asked myself: what if people suddenly lost interest because "the next thing" comes?

Say, NeoGeo collecting stops being interesting and instead people start to go after NES games or old vintage synthesizers or what have you.

I always felt that things like collecting certain items are somewhat temporary and depends on the trend of the moment.
It's undeniable that a there is a niche which will always be interested, no matter what, but when the amount of people goes from, again shooting numbers out of my arse, 10.000 to 100, won't the prices of those items take a huge hit?

I remember looking at CPS2 stuff going for 50-60€ several years ago, now most of the arcade boards have prohibitive costs.
I wonder how long this trend is gonna last before "the next thing" comes.
 

Raguy

Neo Bubble Buster
Joined
Jun 22, 2016
Posts
48
It'll always be a shitty thing to do, period. This is people's hard work that could be analyzed and enjoyed, but is being prevented from seeing the light of day because some random person so happened to stumble across it and open their wallet, who also doesn't own anything related to the intellectual property or software rights of what was made. If not release it, then show off what it actually is and provide some cultural value you leeches, if you can afford a proto you can afford an elgato.

Yes, i don't understand why it is so difficult for big tymers to share some gameplay video. It's why i am grateful with neo alec about fun fun bros and mystic wand video and i am also grateful with billy pitt/supergun about last odyssey and the naomi game, chicago 1929 ( mafia of years 1930 with crazy taxy feeling ) . If i understand well interview of billy pitt on neogeocultura, he seems to have another neo geo proto.
If it's true, can you share a gameplay video ? Its just for a cultural value.
I like your website but it lacks some update, no mention about the scan of ninja gaiden 2 for neo geo.
About neo geo unreleased, i saw a screenshot of the imax puzzle game, maseki taisen stoon.
Very few people have seen this screen.
It is the screen on middle with the elephant guy.
Click if you want to see full screenshot.

 

Jon

Mr. Tater
20 Year Member
Joined
May 11, 2001
Posts
2,617
Prices vary on prototype or, one of a kind arcade games. Usually several thousand dollars ( at least they were). My younger brother was friends with a few of the Mame devs in the early 2000's...it was really interesting hearing about 100% anonymous people dealing with sketchy sellers and auctions on Yahoo Japan and eBay. The difference between the Mame guys and Neo Geo proto hunters is the games were bought and paid for, not held for ransom. After dumping, the games were sold, whether they made a profit or not.

Billy, I'm talking to YOU: I've been silent on this for at least five years. You're hoarding 2 proto Atomiswave carts so you can get someone to give you Neo protos. Have you made any progress? Time to cut your losses, you're not getting what you want. Dump the shit and move on.

Also, no information on the Atomiswave Everdrive either? No updates?

Jon
 

SuperGun

Proto Hunter
Joined
Nov 10, 2001
Posts
870
OK. I’m ready to break my silence and put to rest this Atomiswave cloud that has been lingering over my head. I’ve waited far too long for some kind of update from my contact and have received absolutely nothing. So I’m done looking like the bad guy here.

The Atomiswave library is 100% complete. A complete Atomiswave collection breaks down as follows:
28 officially released cartridges + 5 unreleased protos = 33 games. The 5 unreleased protos were: Force Five, Kenju, Chicago Chase 1929, Premier Eleven Soccer, & Sushi Bar.

All 5 protos have been found, located, sourced, contributed, and dumped. This was accomplished fairly recently through very positive cooperation among the proto owners & a special contact we have in Japan. I myself was one of those proto owners. I provided Chase 1929 and I also helped with Premiere Eleven as well.

The intention was to then make a run of reproduction physical carts of all 5 protos (just like the bootleg carts that were sold for a few years of the released games) with normal sized boards used in normal cartridge cases. In fact, as terms of the negotiation, myself (as well as the other proto contributors) were all promised one complete set (all 5 carts) immediately & first off the assembly line as part of our agreements. However, this all happened years ago & we are STILL waiting for them! Since September 2016 to be precise! We have received NOTHING!

In fact, NOTHING has happened yet for that matter. Other then a few photos I was sent showing the initial prototype repro carts, no carts have been produced or sold. Everything has been held up in limbo. Initially, when I asked my contact for an update and an explanation as to why we have not made the carts yet, he informed me that the memory chips used by the boards he chose for the design were the same as those used by Nintendo for the switch games. And since Nintendo had a virtual monopoly on purchasing these chips in bulk, it made the production costs per cartridge prohibitively expensive.

And sadly that’s all the information I have at this time. My contact hasn’t ever even bothered to reach out to me with another update since then. But the truth is I just simply lost interest anyhow.

I was never really an Atomiswave fan. I mostly got into it out of boredom & a serious lack of anything else left to collect. I originally paid 3K for that Chicago 1929 proto back in September of 2012. I then tried to ransom it as a hostage in the hopes of a possible trade for a neogeo proto. But there simply wasn’t enough interest & its value wasn’t on par with a Neo proto. So I gave up on the idea & agreed to dump it under these certain conditions. Then subsequently sold it for 4K after dumping it. Once that happened my interest level kind of died.

I don’t think we got ripped off, per say, in that I don’t think this was a scam or whatever to trick us into dumping our games, but I do think the guy in charge (our contact) is a little unprofessional & certainly discourteous in how he has handled not only this negotiation with us, but more significantly the communication with us. I mean dude, we the proto owners, should be constantly updated & informed as to what is going on & why. Even if it is just saying: “nothing new to report this week” for week after week. Zero communication is unacceptable. Extremely poor business practice. But again, I already sold my proto and got my money back so at least I can’t get burned financially if/when the rom data gets released publicly. So I just lost interest after that.

But my biggest gripe was moreso the fact that I really wanted all of this to happen JUST so that I could finally silence my critics who call me a rom whore, in that I never dump or share my protos. But yet here we are, 5 years after agreeing to share, and yet still nobody can enjoy these games?

Anyhow, so that’s the story behind the Atomiswave protos! All of them have indeed been “shared” and “dumped” already. It’s been over 5 years for that matter. And some of them even leaked and were hacked to run on the Naomi. So imagine that; just adding more insult to injury to the Atomiswave fans. And at this point, an Atomiswave multicart or SD cart would probably make more sense anyways.

I do feel confident that we will all eventually be able to see & play these games, the way they were intended, on the Atomiswave. But for now, they remain out of the general public’s reach.
 

Raguy

Neo Bubble Buster
Joined
Jun 22, 2016
Posts
48
I feel sorry for you about your experience with atomiswave unreleased games.
Hope that you remain enthusiastic about neo geo unreleased games.
I would like to see some new gameplay footage.
I wonder if it is possible to do a kickstarter just for release publicly for everyone rom version with emulator.
This is kind of thing that can interest another public that are playing neo geo games on switch, ps4 or steam. (ACA Hamster collection)
But i'm afraid that legal owner as snk ( for alpha denshi unreleased game ) or tecmo ( ninja gaiden 2 ) are against .
Perhaps proto owners can directly deal with snk or another legal owner.
After all, aca hamster collection is succesful...

I am happy that clock aquario ( westone unreleased arcade game for sega system 18 ) will be restored and playable on switch, ps4 for this year.


 

KRONOS

B. Jenet's Firstmate
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Posts
420
Yes, i don't understand why it is so difficult for big tymers to share some gameplay video. It's why i am grateful with neo alec about fun fun bros and mystic wand video and i am also grateful with billy pitt/supergun about last odyssey and the naomi game, chicago 1929 ( mafia of years 1930 with crazy taxy feeling ) . If i understand well interview of billy pitt on neogeocultura, he seems to have another neo geo proto.
If it's true, can you share a gameplay video ? Its just for a cultural value.
I like your website but it lacks some update, no mention about the scan of ninja gaiden 2 for neo geo.
About neo geo unreleased, i saw a screenshot of the imax puzzle game, maseki taisen stoon.
Very few people have seen this screen.
It is the screen on middle with the elephant guy.
Click if you want to see full screenshot.

It's cool to see some new pics of these "lost" games. Football Fighter & Maseki Taisen Stoon look sharp. I know 'Stoon is a Geo game, are the rest too? Thank you for posting this. Burning Street (creative title!) is an unreleased 3 on 3 arcade fighter by Tecmo that looks interesting. I wonder what became of the PCB..

https://www.gamingalexandria.com/wp...s-filthiest-underground-gaming-magazine-nsfw/
 

Neo Alec

,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2000
Posts
9,263
OK. I’m ready to break my silence and put to rest this Atomiswave cloud that has been lingering over my head. I’ve waited far too long for some kind of update from my contact and have received absolutely nothing. So I’m done looking like the bad guy here.

The Atomiswave library is 100% complete. A complete Atomiswave collection breaks down as follows:
28 officially released cartridges + 5 unreleased protos = 33 games. The 5 unreleased protos were: Force Five, Kenju, Chicago Chase 1929, Premier Eleven Soccer, & Sushi Bar.

All 5 protos have been found, located, sourced, contributed, and dumped. This was accomplished fairly recently through very positive cooperation among the proto owners & a special contact we have in Japan. I myself was one of those proto owners. I provided Chase 1929 and I also helped with Premiere Eleven as well.

The intention was to then make a run of reproduction physical carts of all 5 protos (just like the bootleg carts that were sold for a few years of the released games) with normal sized boards used in normal cartridge cases. In fact, as terms of the negotiation, myself (as well as the other proto contributors) were all promised one complete set (all 5 carts) immediately & first off the assembly line as part of our agreements. However, this all happened years ago & we are STILL waiting for them! Since September 2016 to be precise! We have received NOTHING!

In fact, NOTHING has happened yet for that matter. Other then a few photos I was sent showing the initial prototype repro carts, no carts have been produced or sold. Everything has been held up in limbo. Initially, when I asked my contact for an update and an explanation as to why we have not made the carts yet, he informed me that the memory chips used by the boards he chose for the design were the same as those used by Nintendo for the switch games. And since Nintendo had a virtual monopoly on purchasing these chips in bulk, it made the production costs per cartridge prohibitively expensive.

And sadly that’s all the information I have at this time. My contact hasn’t ever even bothered to reach out to me with another update since then. But the truth is I just simply lost interest anyhow.

I was never really an Atomiswave fan. I mostly got into it out of boredom & a serious lack of anything else left to collect. I originally paid 3K for that Chicago 1929 proto back in September of 2012. I then tried to ransom it as a hostage in the hopes of a possible trade for a neogeo proto. But there simply wasn’t enough interest & its value wasn’t on par with a Neo proto. So I gave up on the idea & agreed to dump it under these certain conditions. Then subsequently sold it for 4K after dumping it. Once that happened my interest level kind of died.

I don’t think we got ripped off, per say, in that I don’t think this was a scam or whatever to trick us into dumping our games, but I do think the guy in charge (our contact) is a little unprofessional & certainly discourteous in how he has handled not only this negotiation with us, but more significantly the communication with us. I mean dude, we the proto owners, should be constantly updated & informed as to what is going on & why. Even if it is just saying: “nothing new to report this week” for week after week. Zero communication is unacceptable. Extremely poor business practice. But again, I already sold my proto and got my money back so at least I can’t get burned financially if/when the rom data gets released publicly. So I just lost interest after that.

But my biggest gripe was moreso the fact that I really wanted all of this to happen JUST so that I could finally silence my critics who call me a rom whore, in that I never dump or share my protos. But yet here we are, 5 years after agreeing to share, and yet still nobody can enjoy these games?

Anyhow, so that’s the story behind the Atomiswave protos! All of them have indeed been “shared” and “dumped” already. It’s been over 5 years for that matter. And some of them even leaked and were hacked to run on the Naomi. So imagine that; just adding more insult to injury to the Atomiswave fans. And at this point, an Atomiswave multicart or SD cart would probably make more sense anyways.

I do feel confident that we will all eventually be able to see & play these games, the way they were intended, on the Atomiswave. But for now, they remain out of the general public’s reach.
I'm sorry that happened. Thank you for trying to make it happen. It sounds like the remaining roms are eventually going to be public if they aren't already?

For those who want to release their protos, but want at least some compensation for their investment, there's gotta be a way for those who want to help to donate via paypal or patreon or something (of course it's more than a legal gray area). As always, I'm thankful for those who have made their discoveries available for nothing in return, but getting the games out there is great, regardless of how it happens.
 

Jon

Mr. Tater
20 Year Member
Joined
May 11, 2001
Posts
2,617
Keep in mind: The MAME dumping project has ALWAYS accepted donations. That is how they afford the prototypes and rare games that have been dumped over the years. It boggles the mind that a donation fund has not been done on this forum by Neo fans for the purpose of buying expensive prototypes.

To Billy, no offense, this community deserved an update so, I will at least thank you for that. As to the difficulty in dealing with Shou-sama (yes, pretty sure that's your contact), sorry that's happened. A good friend of mine here likes to refer to him as an "over the hill former Virtua Fighter player."

Glad to hear the games have been preserved and, hope to hear soon about how we might be able to play them on actual hardware.

Jon
 

Tempest

Galford's Armourer
Joined
Jun 3, 2003
Posts
471
So is the rom for Chicago 1929 out there then? That's the only one I know of that hasn't been converted to DC yet.
 
Top