SNKP Gives Official Response to Cardfighters Glitch.

[YO-YO-Boy]

not so fast

lol, alba deleted my post...pretty sure he's a mod.
That's the closest he'll ever get to having a job at SNK.

I heard there hiring game testers!

 

[kernow]

I think it is the coding that is broken.

No shit, sherlock

 

[one]

SNKP hasn't made anything I really care about. So if this issue with Cardfighters costs them so much it puts them out of business I wont really care.

Or didn't they sell/ship enough of these for a recall to really cost them much?

 

[Deuce]

My god, do you people ever stop bitching? Everywhere I turn, someone's got the gripe going that SNKP is crap for this reason or that reason.
At any rate, from what I've managed to gather, the problem only popped up on the manufactured cards on distribution hardware... not on dev kits, not on ROMs played on distribution hardware via game copy devices (a touch ironic, that. So it's a little more complicated than just "OMGZ SNKP FUXED UP AGAINZ!!!one!~"

Am I defending the launch of a broken game? No. Games should not be released when broken... especially when in a medium that isn't easily patched. But there's more to it than a simple oversight. And the point is that they're fixing it.

Seems to me like most folks here are simply too hellbent on fault-finding to actually see the stuff that SNKP's done right. But whatever. Go right on bitching and thinking you're somehow superior for it.

 

[rarehero]

SNKUSA doesn't deserve all the blame.
Playmore put out a boring game in the first place.
the fact that there's a glitch in it is SNKUSA's fault in testing.
but i'm sure SNKUSA is probably run on a shoestring budget.
all they do is make region changes, language modifications,
and whatever bueracratic hoops that all companies have to jump through.
they're offering a fix to the problem. that's exactly what's to be expected
and that's that. they didn't have it tested. who knows. they may not even
have much of a testing team if any, and maybe they did but missed the glitch.
for those of you bitching and who don't even have the game.
wtf. find something more productive to do than post on the internet.
ben herman has been with SNK for awhile now, and quite frankly, even if
PLAYMORE is beating the hell out of my favorite corpse, at least they're
represented by someone who's vocal with the community and the press like
ben herman. i don't know the name of the EA president or the president
of rockstar games, and probably never will, they don't have a need to reach
their niche audience. take it from me though. we're lucky to receive SNK anything
here in the US with the shitty mainstream view and direction that the entire
gaming industry has taken for the past 6 years.

 

[aria]

My god, do you people ever stop bitching? Everywhere I turn, someone's got the gripe going that SNKP is crap for this reason or that reason.
At any rate, from what I've managed to gather, the problem only popped up on the manufactured cards on distribution hardware... not on dev kits, not on ROMs played on distribution hardware via game copy devices (a touch ironic, that. So it's a little more complicated than just "OMGZ SNKP FUXED UP AGAINZ!!!one!~"

Am I defending the launch of a broken game? No. Games should not be released when broken... especially when in a medium that isn't easily patched. But there's more to it than a simple oversight. And the point is that they're fixing it.

Seems to me like most folks here are simply too hellbent on fault-finding to actually see the stuff that SNKP's done right. But whatever. Go right on bitching and thinking you're somehow superior for it.

Okay, this isn't the only post like this, so take this as a general reply to all the "stop being so hard when you fault them, why are you so mean?" posts:

So we're wrong for faulting them?

Actually, most people seem to agree that they were wrong. So let's move on:

Or does it bother you that we can articulate some rather harsh but accurate criticism for this failure? How is this not an embarrassing management failure? If this were a serious, publicly traded company messing up that badly there would be investor pressure for resignations or firings. I'm arguing that, now that we're all grown ups, we should stop giving video game companies the same sort of pat-on-the-back-its-okay slack that serious companies (including other entertainment companies) don't get.

Hello... [taps on mic]

--this so-called blame fest is not limited to this website. This is something that's found its way into its coverage of the company and it's legacy. In fact most reviews bring that up!

GameSpot (how much more mainstream can you get?):
"It's disappointing that Card Fighters DS received such second-rate localization and quality assurance testing because the underlying game is fun and addictive. If there was just a bit more care put into it, this could have been a great game. As it is, the game fails to realize its potential."

EuroGamer:
"This is meant to have been the redemptive life developer SNK should have lived but, instead, it ends up just being the story of how SNK actually lived: A sorry tragedy of squandered potential, wasted talent, vision clouded and international humiliation."

My personal faith in SNK USA started to falter when they botched the SvC launch (it was a failure); they then proceeded to short-shrift the US fans, as has been documented tradition, when they tinkered with the SS5S fatalities. Other than going to the diminishing KOF trough and releasing games pulled from the library they haven't done a whole lot --well, they certainly didn't help the failure of the Atomiswave.

The "but we're a small/understaffed/whatever company" holds no water because there are similarly small companies who don't have these problems. Simply showing up for interviews doesn't make a company succeed. It is not difficult to sign contracts that allow your old games show up on a superior company's system.

I feel this is a split between those who wish to give SNK-P the emotional credit for SNK and those who just see a middling company going from one bungled attempt to the other.

Am I being emotional? I think not. This is just brutal honesty, and I have high standards.

 

[wizkid007]

No shit, sherlock

LOL at a guy that hasnt played the game. Buy it first, then comment on it.

 

[Deuce]

I feel this is a split between those who wish to give SNK-P the emotional credit for SNK and those who just see a middling company going from one bungled attempt to the other.

Am I being emotional? I think not. This is just brutal honesty, and I have high standards.

Your choice of words tells me otherwise, though. "One bungled attempt after another" is not an expression which speaks of an even-handed approach. I am not referring specifically to this game... indeed, I have yet to play it myself. My point is that, every single time I have dared venture back to these boards, there is always a hate-on-Playmore-fest going on for some reason or another. It's always this-sucks, that-sucks, so-and-so-was-better, picking-the-corpse, beating-the-dead-horse, etc.

My point is simply that it's tiresome. KOFXI was and is an excellent game, and a damn fine addition to the series. NGBC is plenty of fun, Tenka is shockingly solid and enjoyable (in spite of an appallingly bad soundtrack), and KOFMI2/2006 is a very well-built 3D fighter (if not the deepest in the world)... I can't speak of/about Metal Slug 6, as I haven't played it, and I'm not a fan of the series in the first place.

The air I constantly see projected here is one of elitist nostalgia, as if the SNK of old could do no wrong. Forgive me for saying so, but I've been an SNK fan since before the MVS, and I recall a few massive fuckups on their part. I love some of their games, like SS3, in spite of their flaws, but I admit that they are flawed.

By and large, it seems to boil down almost completely to "I hate and fear change." People bitch about the compilations because, apparently, they don't like other people getting to play the games they spent so much money on for a comparative pittance. It's stupid. I know the elitist Neo*Freak mentality. I used to have it. Then I grew up. I still have my Neo(s)... and Hyper(s)... and Pocket(just the one). I just decided to drop the attitude that seemed to come with the obsession.

I know my words are falling on deaf ears, so to speak, but there's so much collective whining that goes on here, you'd almost think it was a Final Fantasy discussion board. Is this community one of system owners, or game players?

 

[Blue Steel]

I like this game *hugs DS*. I'm still only on the 2nd floor so I'm not letting the glitch bother me too much at this point. I never played through the first CFC for NGPC so I don't know what I've missed out on, but the other night when I booted up the NGPC and started a game it was hard to play in my dimly lit apartment so I prefer playing on my DS (I might have to ask xian xi if he'll mod my slim line NGPC for me). I can wait a few months and play other shit in the meantime, at least SNK USA isn't fucking everyone over and is offering a solution.

 

[aria]

Your choice of words tells me otherwise, though.

I'm an attorney and (to a much lesser degree) writer, words and forming arguments are my life. My style is using strong language to argue my position. So I must disagree with you: my position is based less on emotion and more on their inept track record culminating in this product failure and PR disaster.

 

[Deuce]

My style is using strong language to argue my position. So I must disagree with you: my position is based less on emotion and more on their inept track record culminating in this product failure and PR disaster.

Be that as it may, I must note that you neglect to comment on any of the actual points I made (since I don't actually disagree that they screwed up). Whatever you may do as your day job, and whatever your status may be here, that particular debate tactic is most commonly the sole province of a troll.

Believe me, I used to be on TotalFark. I saw it daily. ;P

 

[Mr.Nemoperson]

My personal faith in SNK USA started to falter when they botched the SvC launch (it was a failure); they then proceeded to short-shrift the US fans, as has been documented tradition, when they tinkered with the SS5S fatalities. Other than going to the diminishing KOF trough and releasing games pulled from the library they haven't done a whole lot --well, they certainly didn't help the failure of the Atomiswave.

I was under the impression that SNKP Japan were the ones that took out the fatalities for the home release of SSVS. I had heard that at the time Japan was going through some sort of youth violence epidemic and the media was looking at violent video games as a scapegoat. That was also why GTA3 was banned at some stores over there.

 

[Abster]

Yeah, that was when the Nagasaki incident occured and SNKP thought they were getting the fingerpointed at them. There we got screwed by an event we couldn't even do anything about.

I think SNKP Japan also was at fault when it came to the CFC DS glitch, since with the engrish I believe they handled the localization themselves. It's just that SNK USA was too lazy to detect it when they were finalizing it.

 

[rarehero]

Okay, this isn't the only post like this, so take this as a general reply to all the "stop being so hard when you fault them, why are you so mean?" posts:

So we're wrong for faulting them?

Actually, most people seem to agree that they were wrong. So let's move on:

Or does it bother you that we can articulate some rather harsh but accurate criticism for this failure? How is this not an embarrassing management failure? If this were a serious, publicly traded company messing up that badly there would be investor pressure for resignations or firings. I'm arguing that, now that we're all grown ups, we should stop giving video game companies the same sort of pat-on-the-back-its-okay slack that serious companies (including other entertainment companies) don't get.

Hello... [taps on mic]

--this so-called blame fest is not limited to this website. This is something that's found its way into its coverage of the company and it's legacy. In fact most reviews bring that up!

GameSpot (how much more mainstream can you get?):
"It's disappointing that Card Fighters DS received such second-rate localization and quality assurance testing because the underlying game is fun and addictive. If there was just a bit more care put into it, this could have been a great game. As it is, the game fails to realize its potential."

EuroGamer:
"This is meant to have been the redemptive life developer SNK should have lived but, instead, it ends up just being the story of how SNK actually lived: A sorry tragedy of squandered potential, wasted talent, vision clouded and international humiliation."

My personal faith in SNK USA started to falter when they botched the SvC launch (it was a failure); they then proceeded to short-shrift the US fans, as has been documented tradition, when they tinkered with the SS5S fatalities. Other than going to the diminishing KOF trough and releasing games pulled from the library they haven't done a whole lot --well, they certainly didn't help the failure of the Atomiswave.

The "but we're a small/understaffed/whatever company" holds no water because there are similarly small companies who don't have these problems. Simply showing up for interviews doesn't make a company succeed. It is not difficult to sign contracts that allow your old games show up on a superior company's system.

I feel this is a split between those who wish to give SNK-P the emotional credit for SNK and those who just see a middling company going from one bungled attempt to the other.

Am I being emotional? I think not. This is just brutal honesty, and I have high standards.

when has SNKUSA ever in the history of SNK as well as playmore given high results?
are you somehow expecting them to raise the bar for games that in the industry
is considered lower tier? i'm betting the sales of SNK games on the US
market is pretty miniscule.
the comparison to companies on the stock market doesnt make sense, because
i think we all know it'll never happen. i've always considered anything we've
gotten from SNK funneled down to SNKUSA as lucky. SNK hasnt truly considered
the US market since back in 92-93.
it's nice to expect alot bobak. but SNKUSA has never been
a true entity up until the NGP release here in the US and that was more for
marketing. SNKUSA i'm hoping is growing, and apt to fix mistakes like these so
they don't happen in the future, but the reality of it is no one has had any love
from SNK back in the day unless you were fucking japanese.
i'm used to getting the shaft. but here they're fixing
the problem. if you want to talk about firing folks and so one and whatever
for a minor glitch that they're fixing at their own recall then okay.
hahah. i doubt anyone would be there at all to release anything.
i'm sure my view is pretty apathetic, but i've been raised as a NEOGEO fan
to not expect much state side.

 

[Cernex]

The air I constantly see projected here is one of elitist nostalgia, as if the SNK of old could do no wrong. Forgive me for saying so, but I've been an SNK fan since before the MVS, and I recall a few massive fuckups on their part. I love some of their games, like SS3, in spite of their flaws, but I admit that they are flawed.

1) No, we expect the same quality as the old SNK. If you think THOSE kind of goals are "best", then you're right. And, is it wrong to expect QUALITY games with great stories and gameplay from a company that used to DELIVER them??? No. The fact is that, like it or not, SNKP just doesn't live up to SNK's past glory. Cardfighters, for example.

2) Mention 1 screw up that compares to not bringing the next King of Fighters to a home system in the US., or as releasing a game that CAN'T be finished because of an unavoideable bug. C'mon, I'm waiting.

By and large, it seems to boil down almost completely to "I hate and fear change." People bitch about the compilations because, apparently, they don't like other people getting to play the games they spent so much money on for a comparative pittance. It's stupid. I know the elitist Neo*Freak mentality. I used to have it. Then I grew up. I still have my Neo(s)... and Hyper(s)... and Pocket(just the one). I just decided to drop the attitude that seemed to come with the obsession.

No, we bitch about compilations because they SUCK ASS. Have you EVER played The "NEST saga" compilation???: Botchered intros, muffled sound, no scan-lines, not having a real "arcade perfect" emulation (because they aren't their arcade versions to begin with)...

They are good compilations, like "Art of Fighting" but that's about it. Metal Slug advance was a terrible port, compilations are bad becuase f they're quality, not because of its "collector value" or whatnot.

They suck, plain and simple.

I know my words are falling on deaf ears, so to speak, but there's so much collective whining that goes on here, you'd almost think it was a Final Fantasy discussion board. Is this community one of system owners, or game players?

If we bith so much, why are you here??? Go and screw with Alba Meira in SNKPs boards, for all I care. Maybe those type of SNK fans will please your... "tastes".

El Cernex

 

[Ajax]

Your choice of words tells me otherwise, though. "One bungled attempt after another" is not an expression which speaks of an even-handed approach. I am not referring specifically to this game... indeed, I have yet to play it myself. My point is that, every single time I have dared venture back to these boards, there is always a hate-on-Playmore-fest going on for some reason or another. It's always this-sucks, that-sucks, so-and-so-was-better, picking-the-corpse, beating-the-dead-horse, etc.

My point is simply that it's tiresome. KOFXI was and is an excellent game, and a damn fine addition to the series. NGBC is plenty of fun, Tenka is shockingly solid and enjoyable (in spite of an appallingly bad soundtrack), and KOFMI2/2006 is a very well-built 3D fighter (if not the deepest in the world)... I can't speak of/about Metal Slug 6, as I haven't played it, and I'm not a fan of the series in the first place.

The air I constantly see projected here is one of elitist nostalgia, as if the SNK of old could do no wrong. Forgive me for saying so, but I've been an SNK fan since before the MVS, and I recall a few massive fuckups on their part. I love some of their games, like SS3, in spite of their flaws, but I admit that they are flawed.

By and large, it seems to boil down almost completely to "I hate and fear change." People bitch about the compilations because, apparently, they don't like other people getting to play the games they spent so much money on for a comparative pittance. It's stupid. I know the elitist Neo*Freak mentality. I used to have it. Then I grew up. I still have my Neo(s)... and Hyper(s)... and Pocket(just the one). I just decided to drop the attitude that seemed to come with the obsession.

I know my words are falling on deaf ears, so to speak, but there's so much collective whining that goes on here, you'd almost think it was a Final Fantasy discussion board. Is this community one of system owners, or game players?

Word. KoFXI and NGBC are two ridiculously solid fighting games. KoFXI is easily on par with the best of KoFs and NGBC actually feels like a Neo Geo game. What more could you ask?

Never played SS Tenka, but I'm not that big of an SS fan anyway. MS 6 is nothing to write home about, but it's decent. SNKP has some exceedingly large shoes to fill. Yeah, they have fucked up. What game company hasn't? How come when Sega releases 15 shitty Sonic games in a row, nobody comes down on them hard like they do with SNKP? Nintendo had a rough ass stretch a while back. But now, they're back on top of their game. I stuck with them through the tough times with trust that they would come out of it and reward my patience with excellent products and they have. This is a board dedicated to Neo Geo, isn't there anybody else who has the same hope in SNK?

 

[kernow]

LOL at a guy that hasnt played the game. Buy it first, then comment on it.

You sir, are retarded.

Its already been mentioned its a glitch 1000 times, do you think it would be anything other than a 'coding problem' ?

I don't need to play the game, or own it, to know that.

Why would I play this broken title anyway? I've always thought card fighting was lame-o, and this is no different.

 

[rarehero]

You sir, are retarded.

Its already been mentioned its a glitch 1000 times, do you think it would be anything other than a 'coding problem' ?

I don't need to play the game, or own it, to know that.

Why would I play this broken title anyway? I've always thought card fighting was lame-o, and this is no different.

originally it was a okay card game, but i thought the novelty was finding
new cards and collecting them. plus kicking everyone's ass with the ikari cards.
it was fan service, which i imagine this one should be.
i'm actually looking forward to the game when there are proper revisions
floating around. despite the reviews.

 

[ForeverSublime]

You sir, are retarded.

Its already been mentioned its a glitch 1000 times, do you think it would be anything other than a 'coding problem' ?

I don't need to play the game, or own it, to know that.

Why would I play this broken title anyway? I've always thought card fighting was lame-o, and this is no different.

Actually, it might not be a coding problem... directly. Strange things have happened on the assembly line.

From KLOV.com, about Tempest:

"The fact you can earn 40 free games with a certain score was the fault of developer Dave Theurer himself. He had created a special security code to protect against piracy which checked the placement of different objects. If the objects were not in the correct place, the game would shut down. Before the game was shipped, however, Theurer, who would fuss over minute details, noticed an Atari logo was off-center. He adjusted it slightly. This small change caused the code to malfunction and the player to earn 40 free credits if a certain score was reached."​

Could be complete BS as I'm no tempest expert.

 

[kernow]

Well, thats a coding problem too.

 

[RabbitTroop]

Since I posted a bunch of pap tonight, let me make a final stab at something coherent before I go to bed. First, this is the first I've heard of both this game and the bug. Yeah, so much for giving a shit about SNK/Playmore. Second... I tested software for years, this is basically a huge bug by any standards... completely inexcusable show stopping severity one type bug. This is the type of thing that literally cost a company a fortune to recover from... which SNK is scrambling to do now.

What likely happened is that this section was tested, it was probably fine... all the way up until GM. There is no way possible they shipped a game without fully playing through it and at least doing black-box testing on it. So, with that being said I'm guessing they either had to add or remove a section of code to amend another bug. When this happens a regression test has to be done as well as a full suite test, normally... however, if it's close to GM, and it's late... and people are tired... and the manager wants it out by 6am the next day, shit gets missed. I'm guessing a late bug fix caused this problem.

Who's to blame here... well, of course QA is the first... Dev is kind of off the hook as that's really something that should have been found in a sanity test... however, I've worked as a manager for years now and I've learned one important thing... how incredibly important it is sometimes to just say "No, we can't do that, this ship date is going to slip... there is no way we can completely finish this project, and do it right in the time frame alloted." It won't make you any friends, but... it has to be done.

Regardless, the fix is a joke.

1.) The game is unplayable past a certain stage... you could play up to that stage and never finish the game... but... what fun is that.
2.) You can send your cart in for a replacement... meaning you might as well not even start playing now... because, your save file is going to SNKP never to be seen again. Have fun starring at your worthless game for 6 weeks+ while SNK finds the bug, tests the bug, and then figures out how the hell they're going to do a swap.
3.) An instore swap would be a lot harder, but better for SNKP. They should probably take a loss, ship new product to stores and get them to collect old carts and do the swap in mass. It is less hassle on the end consumer (which they've already hassled enough) and it's easier for them to deal with set distribution channels than to worry about mailing carts out all over the world.

terrible... terrible... terrible... and don't worry, at least one person is getting fired for this... sadly it probably won't be the manager that pushed this game out the door to hastily.

 

[Jedah Doma]

People are still siding with SNK on this one?

SNK screwed up plain and simple. As others have said, SNK does not sell a boat load of games. That being the fact, wouldn't it make sense to test the game properly and then release it to the public without bugs? If SNK sells games to a select small demographic of SNK fans, why botch a release because of rushing a product out. SNK is the king of delayed games. I remember waiting for SSV on the PS2 which then got delayed and delayed until it got pushed to the Xbox which also got delayed and delayed. Even after all the delays the game still had loading times, but at least there wasn't a game crashing error.

SNK says they care, but where the action behind the words? They mean jack if they can't release a solid product. I appreciate the recall, but it's a little too late. Sure, I'll probably buy a "fixed" copy if they send them out, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm dissapointed. It seems some members deem it a sin to speak badly of a company who, for the most part, have put out bad games in the US.

These lame excuses are getting old. Whether it's "They didn't have enough people" or "They don't make a lot of money on these games" or whatever the excuse may be, it's time to own up to the fact that SNK screwed up and have been for many years. Some of you have some very low standards when it comes to games. Hey, if mediocrity is your thing, then have at it. I, on the other hand, don't have the luxury of wasting my time or money on buggy crap.

 

[hanafuda]

The American SNK Playmore. The Japanese version didn't have the bug.

Yeah, and the irony of that is that the JPN version didn't seem to sell at all. I don't remember seeing it in any chart, ever, and can't find any sales figures for it, so it is safe to assume it sold less than 10,000 copies.

The US version had sold over 20,000 copies last time I checked!

 

[Takumaji]

These lame excuses are getting old. Whether it's "They didn't have enough people" or "They don't make a lot of money on these games" or whatever the excuse may be, it's time to own up to the fact that SNK screwed up and have been for many years. Some of you have some very low standards when it comes to games. Hey, if mediocrity is your thing, then have at it. I, on the other hand, don't have the luxury of wasting my time or money on buggy crap.

Well, yeah, I agree with you to some extend, but IMO it's not okay to over-generalize the issue. What SNKP USA did with CFC DS was lame but you and others make it sound as SNKP as a whole would only release broken games, which is not true because last time I checked, KoF NW, KoF XI, SS0 and Tenka ran flawlessly and IMO they ain't too shabby either, specially KoF XI which definitely is not just yet another mediocre KoF2k2 clone but a (major) step in the right direction for SNKP.

I'm all for telling it like it is, SNKP USA made a terrible mistake and gets punished for it (and rightfully so), but you also have to give credit where credit is due.

IMO, etc.

 

[Violent Ryo]

The US version had sold over 20,000 copies last time I checked!

What?! Where? How do you find out much games sell?