SLG SCART unit from ArcadeForge.

[bloodhokuto]

Some of you may / may not be aware of ArcadeForge and the bits of kit that they make.

Anywhoo, I picked up their SLG SCART unit, which simply adds scanlines within the SCART feed to your LCD/LED etc TV.

My Samsung LED TV looks ok, but I still miss the element of scanlines and the look that this feature brings.

I own a separate upscaler, but think that most half decent flatscreen TVs these days should give you a comparable image. As such, I don't know why people bother with them, if all you are missing without a external scaler is scanlines.

The company that do the XRGB line, also did a basic SCART scanline generator (DISPL), but these are as rare as rocking horse shit.

As ArcadeForge do one, so I thought I would give it a bash.

I'm on the fence as to whether the scanlines do or do not make the picture better, but I'm glad I have the option to choose now.

Here are a few videos (ok they aren't great), see for yourself.

Garou Neo Geo (NGH with RGB mod);


Ketsui PCB (Sigma Supergun); [OFF]


Ketsui PCB (Sigma Supergun); [ON]

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[distropia]

In that videos, the scanline effect is set very soft, right?

One thing I really love from the real scanlines of a CRT is when a horizontal line fades, look like the width is decreasing. No one SLG recreates that.

 

[bloodhokuto]

The scan line intensity can be increased / decreased. I didn't have them up too high when I took the videos.

Yes, I guess it isn't as good as the real thing, but it's pretty nice to have this on a flatscreen.

 

[RockstarRunner]

Do not get an SLG Scart! For Neo and other 240p systems it's terrible, all it actually does is scrub every other line darker, giving a scanlines like effect, but thats erasing every other line of the image!
People use external scalers because if you want scanlines to look good, and not actually take away from the image you need to line double before applying them. I got the SLG Scart, saw what it did, then ordered the proper scaler toolchain they offer instead, which produces a fantastic image without sacrificing any part of the graphics, and as a neat side bonus gives me far greater picture control than my TV alone offers.

 

[Jonny l3lanka]

Do not get an SLG Scart! For Neo and other 240p systems it's terrible, all it actually does is scrub every other line darker, giving a scanlines like effect, but thats erasing every other line of the image!
People use external scalers because if you want scanlines to look good, and not actually take away from the image you need to line double before applying them. I got the SLG Scart, saw what it did, then ordered the proper scaler toolchain they offer instead, which produces a fantastic image without sacrificing any part of the graphics, and as a neat side bonus gives me far greater picture control than my TV alone offers.

Sounds interesting.. So what is your exact setup?

some pics would be nice

 

[RockstarRunner]

Little vid I made..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-JvGAJibaQ

One thing to note in the video, the flickering you might see is from the camera and the recording refresh rate, it doesn't do that to the eye.

 

[RAZO]

Ive had a bad experience with the slg3000 on my hdtvs without the scaler. It looks horrible, but if I hook it up to a crt it does a great job. I gave up playing my old school gear on a hdtv. I had the same setup rockstar had but it still not compare to the image quality I was getting on my crt.

 

[RockstarRunner]

Well, my Neo has the RGB bypass and my Sony TV was fairly high end when I got it. Picture is pretty awesome for me, but I guess what you get on the screen depends on a bunch of things.

 

[vasilas432]

Well, my Neo has the RGB bypass and my Sony TV was fairly high end when I got it. Picture is pretty awesome for me, but I guess what you get on the screen depends on a bunch of things.

Thanks for the video. You really explain very well there how it works. I believe your setup is among the best solutions because you can have the advantages of the LCD plus scan lines that don't crop the image which is super important. Everybody is talking about CRTs but there are CRTs that are expensive and have good RGB and clear image and there cheap CRTs that are pieces of crap. I do have a crappy Sony one. It is a 29' trinitron 100hz. Also the CRTs have a great disadvantage which is the flickering. You can't be near them without any filters cause your eyes will be very tired. So having a CRT out of the warehouse and think you have the best image is false. Having a Sony PVM 20' then you can speak for a CRT and the greatest image quality with Neo Geo.

 

[Xian Xi]

The scan line intensity can be increased / decreased. I didn't have them up too high when I took the videos.

Yes, I guess it isn't as good as the real thing, but it's pretty nice to have this on a flatscreen.

Can you do a video with CRT/PVM level scanlines?

 

[vasilas432]

Can you do a video with CRT/PVM level scanlines?

Which CRT PVM model is appropriate for gaming and what cable you need to connect AES with RGB on it?

 

[Jonny l3lanka]

Little vid I made..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-JvGAJibaQ

One thing to note in the video, the flickering you might see is from the camera and the recording refresh rate, it doesn't do that to the eye.

Thats probably the best explanation of scanlines I've ever heard you explain in a nice simple manner what they do and why they are needed.. sweet

Anyways, you explain why the SLG scart is useless.. but would this be true also to a high end plasma that has exceptional scaling abilities by itself?

Im actually having a hard time understanding the difference between line-doubling via a scaler VS a tv converting 240p to 480i.. what you are saying essentially is that these images are entirely different correct?

Jonny

 

[vasilas432]

Thats probably the best explanation of scanlines I've ever heard you explain in a nice simple manner what they do and why they are needed.. sweet

Anyways, you explain why the SLG scart is useless.. but would this be true also to a high end plasma that has exceptional scaling abilities by itself?

Im actually having a hard time understanding the difference between line-doubling via a scaler VS a tv converting 240p to 480i.. what you are saying essentially is that these images are entirely different correct?

Jonny

He says that the Tv makes 240p to 480i. If put the scan liner to this one is like having120p or 240i!!! So the upscaled makes the signal 480p and then comes the scan liner and makes it 480i again but with appropriate true scan lines. It seems perfect procedure without flaws. That's why graphics do improve.

 

[RockstarRunner]

He says that the Tv makes 240p to 480i. If put the scan liner to this one is like having120p or 240i!!! So the upscaled makes the signal 480p and then comes the scan liner and makes it 480i again but with appropriate true scan lines. It seems perfect procedure without flaws. That's why graphics do improve.

Yeah, basically this.

Thanks for the compliments guys.

 

[vasilas432]

Yeah, basically this.

Thanks for the compliments guys.

Do you think this one is better than SLG-in-a-box?
http://www.solarisjapan.com/products/XRGB%252dmini-Framemeister-Compact-Up-Scaler-Unit.html?setCurrencyId=2

 

[RockstarRunner]

Without having tried it I could not say, all I can say is SLG in a box is cheaper and looks damn good to me. Hopefully you can find someone who can actually compare them.

 

[RockstarRunner]

Visual explanation

So I made this image to make it as clear as I can, hope it helps.

 

[vasilas432]

So I made this image to make it as clear as I can, hope it helps.

Awesome example! This will help everyone interested to understand.

 

[Slugger]

I don´t have a crt (gone forever) anymore in the house and kinda miss the picture quality it had. Flatscreens generally just don´t have that old school vibe retrogames need, so I think I´m going to try this SLG in a box thing. Overall people seem to be very pleased with the results it deliveres.
Btw. Thanks for the great vid and info RockstarRunner! Very useful since i´m not a tech guy myself.

 

[vasilas432]

Me also for SLG-in-a-box. Can't find a PVM.

 

[Jonny l3lanka]

Just for fun.. I made this little video of me running an emulator on my plasma with scanlines at 640 x 480

With all this talk of scanlines and crts of late, I figured it would be fitting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNSeF22mWRU&feature=youtu.be

Honestly looks amazing, colours, contrast, fidelity all of it.

 

[vasilas432]

Just for fun.. I made this little video of me running an emulator on my plasma with scanlines at 640 x 480

With all this talk of scanlines and crts of late, I figured it would be fitting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNSeF22mWRU&feature=youtu.be

Honestly looks amazing, colours, contrast, fidelity all of it.

How close by percent estimate is this to a real CRT?

 

[Jonny l3lanka]

How close by percent estimate is this to a real CRT?

Well this is only my own opinion... but I'd say 90-93%

 

[Slugger]

I´ve had my Slg in box for a week now. First I tried it with the rgb input on my cmvs. With Blazing Star it had framerate issues on both my Nec monitor and big screen lcd. The image though was really nice but the framerate hiccups made it unplayable for me, too bad.
Luckily it has also a component input so next I tried that out. Framerate issues are gone. Also tested the same game without the scaler with rgb and component cables on lcd to confirm everything is running correct. Compared it to teh rom also, runs fine
Picture is really nice! There are some minor artifacts but you can mask them with screen settings so no big deal.
I haven´t yet tried it out with my other consoles but for now I think it´s great for the price and overall I´m really pleased what it does.
I´ve had bad crt tv´s for the neo and absolutely hated the small screen flickering they did as my eyes start to hurt so overall I like this setup much better!

 

[vasilas432]

I´ve had my Slg in box for a week now. First I tried it with the rgb input on my cmvs. With Blazing Star it had framerate issues on both my Nec monitor and big screen lcd. The image though was really nice but the framerate hiccups made it unplayable for me, too bad.
Luckily it has also a component input so next I tried that out. Framerate issues are gone. Also tested the same game without the scaler with rgb and component cables on lcd to confirm everything is running correct. Compared it to teh rom also, runs fine
Picture is really nice! There are some minor artifacts but you can mask them with screen settings so no big deal.
I haven´t yet tried it out with my other consoles but for now I think it´s great for the price and overall I´m really pleased what it does.
I´ve had bad crt tv´s for the neo and absolutely hated the small screen flickering they did as my eyes start to hurt so overall I like this setup much better!

So connecting the neo with RGB out to SLG in a box in, doesn't work right? You need to have component out from the Neo to work?