Right to bear arms, my ass. Can't even protect myself and family.

[LoneSage]

to me, 'snitch', in the way the term has become known more popularly in the last decade among the black community, is when shit goes down in a neighborhood and shitbrained witnesses don't say anything to the police.

 

[Marek]

to me, 'snitch', in the way the term has become known more popularly in the last decade among the black community, is when shit goes down in a neighborhood and shitbrained witnesses don't say anything to the police.

short-sighted assessment

 

[aria]

I live in Ohio, like Tonk, myself. I'm EXTREMELY surprised that the castle doctrine, which is a law passed by the last govenor, was not brought up to the police. It sounds to me like this is a text book case that should have guaranteed Tonk didn't get charged with anything.

It felt unfinished not looking up what this was in your state (as I said, for those states that have it, it varies greatly) and I found this:

The 2008 tort-related law states:

"if the person against whom the defensive force is used is in the process of entering or has entered, unlawfully and without privilege to do so, [highlight]the residence[/highlight] [. . .] occupied by the person using the defensive force"

(or vehicle, but that's not at issue here).​

So how is "residence" defined?

Section (B)(1)(b)​

"'Residence' has the same meaning as in section 2901.05 of the Revised Code."​

Okay, so how is it defined in Ohio Revised Code § 2901.05 (the criminal version of the castle doctrine)?

You see they were smart to keep the language basically the same:

2901.05(B)(1)​

"a person is presumed to have acted in self defense or defense of another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if the person against whom the defensive force is used is in the process of unlawfully and without privilege to do so entering, or has unlawfully and without privilege to do so entered, [highlight]the residence[/highlight] [. . .] occupied by the person using the defensive force."​

So let's move to the definitions section, which by virtue of being alphabetical is slightly out of order so here are the relevant definitions in order:

2901.05(D)(3)​

"[highlight]'Residence' means a dwelling[/highlight] in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as a guest."​

2901.05(D)(2)​

"[highlight]'Dwelling' means a building[/highlight] or conveyance of any kind that has a roof over it and that is designed to be occupied by people lodging in the building or conveyance at night, regardless of whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent or is mobile or immobile. As used in this division, a building or conveyance includes, but is not limited to, an attached porch, and a building or conveyance with a roof over it includes, but is not limited to, a tent."​

That doesn't include a yard.

Just a few months ago a newspaper summarized the law as this:

The Ohio legislature updated the law in 2008 to give people an automatic assumption that they acted in self-defense when using lethal force against someone who has illegally entered their home

TonK had no firm legal ground to stand on. He would've been charged with some level of crime, though it would've likely mitigated away from first degree murder or anything like that (it still would've been awful, though). He could've tried to argue that the other guy was in the process of "entering", but that's a mess with no guarantees.

It's analogous to saying: if you're going to drive, you're required to know and follow the laws in your state. If you're going to brandish a deadly weapon, you're certainly required to know and follow the laws in your state.

tl;dr: The yard isn't covered under Castle Doctrine in Ohio and I don't want anyone there getting in trouble over it based on this thread.

 

[aria]

Consider this Bobak.

Refusal to "snitch" is often an honorable thing. I've refused to snitch on a big issue, and my life was hell for a solid year because of it. Thankfully it worked out, but I almost went to prison. Had I snitched on a good friend I wouldn't be able to live with myself right now.

An example of honorable refusal to snitch : You fail to dispose of the 20 sack of weed you just bought (i.e. eat it) when you get pulled over driving home, and you get busted for it. You do not snitch on the dude who sold you the 20 sack. You take the consequences on the chin, because it was your responsibility to protect yourself. That is honorable.

HOWEVER, in Tonks case there is no reason to even talk about "not snitching." Some dumb fucking thug with a gun is raising hell in your neighborhood threatening you and your family? You let the cops know he had a pistol in his waistband. No brainer, for me anyway.

Either Tonk is just odd, or hes not being honest about the gun. I figure he's just got an odd thing about being a 'snitch'. Idk. Its a super weird mindset to cling to, given the circumstances.

I get what you're saying and I agree in part.

When I talk of the "snitching" movement I'm thinking more of the pure street thug version rather than than the "I don't agree with this law" or "I don't think this is a serious crime" sort of thing. e.g. I could care less about jaywalkers, (most) speeders, people who smoke pot, etc.

 

[LoneSage]

short-sighted assessment

woot woot Bob had the same thought in mind about snitching as I did neener-neener

 

[brentsg]

Maybe TonK didn't snitch because he also had a gun in his pants, and he grabbed the shotgun to 1-up the thug. Think of it as an Ohio arms race.

 

[Marek]

woot woot Bob had the same thought in mind about snitching as I did neener-neener

Right and you both havent had to deal with it in real life.

So yeah.

My point stands.

 

[evil wasabi]

I would shoot Bobak and LoneSage if they didn't refuse to get off my yard. But then I'd invite Bobak in for a mojito and some MD3.

 

[LoneSage]

I would allow you guys to recreate Weekend at Bernies with my body.

but only if you put a fake mustache on me.

 

[SouthtownKid]

I would allow you guys to recreate Weekend at Bernies with my body.

but only if you put a fake mustache on me.

If you already have one you'd want us to use, maybe you better let us know where it is now.

 

[LoneSage]

funny, I don't remember a third wheel in the movies, excluding Bernie of course.

 

[SouthtownKid]

funny, I don't remember a third wheel in the movies, excluding Bernie of course.

Oh, I thought you meant a generalized "you". That's okay, it's not like I would have flown out anywhere. But you know, if you have this kind of fake mustache preference, maybe it would be considerate of you not to expect someone else to buy one for you. Are you thinking to stick wasabi with funeral charges as well?

 

[SonGohan]

STK is on a roll lately

 

[LoneSage]

if by funeral charges you mean wasabi digging a 9 foot hole, then Bob throwing my naked body in, then wasabi asking Bob for a hand to help him get out of the hole, only for Bob to shoot wasabi so that no one else would know, thus having my naked body lie with wasabi against his Armani for eternity in the earth, then yes

yes I expect to stick him


with the funeral charges

 

[BobbyPeru]

I smell a murder/suicide coming on. Be careful "Wasabi".

Anyway, having two kids myself, I can only imagine what lengths I would go to protect them if I felt they were threatened. What you did may have been difficult, and raised all sorts of conflicting emotions and questions, but I think that in a human way (if not a legal way), it was the right thing to do.

Best of luck, man.

 

[LoneSage]

the w is NOT capitalized

 

[alec]

Damn dude! Insane! That's a crazy situation to be caught up in. In a way though you're lucky, mostly that it didn't escalate, but it's a miracle those charges were dropped. There's a reason it's called a court of law and not a court of justice.

Glad you and your family are safe. Stay safe, and find a new place with haste!

 

[Lagduf]

Bobak, thank you for pointing on that relevant law on this issue.

 

[Hot Chocolate]

I get what you're saying and I agree in part.

When I talk of the "snitching" movement I'm thinking more of the pure street thug version rather than than the "I don't agree with this law" or "I don't think this is a serious crime" sort of thing. e.g. I could care less about jaywalkers, (most) speeders, people who smoke pot, etc.

Or everyone's fav

 

[SSS]

So, Tonk. In the future all you gotta do is step back a few feet from the door and as soon as they cross the threshold you can blast em.

 

[SNKorSWM]

This reads like a rulebook for dodgeball.

 

[aria]

if by funeral charges you mean wasabi digging a 9 foot hole, then Bob throwing my naked body in, then wasabi asking Bob for a hand to help him get out of the hole, only for Bob to shoot wasabi so that no one else would know, thus having my naked body lie with wasabi against his Armani for eternity in the earth, then yes

Sort of like that scene in Glory... wasabi would fall in slow motion and rest on lonesage --together in a final embrace, forever.

 

[LoneSage]

ok. now i gotta see glory.

 

[GregN]

Wow. That's heavy man.. heavy.

My Dad and uncle were tough guys in their day - always getting into fights in bars and what-not. You should hear some of the stories that come out of their mouths...

Now they advocate staying away from trouble-makers and calling the police.

But I understand that you wanted to protect your family and you did what you think you needed to do.
Too bad the law and your other neighbors don't see it that way.

If there were ever a zombie invasion, I'd trust you and Merc above all else to handle the guns - I'll be in charge of the melee weapons.

 

[TonK]

Thanks for judging my actions, guys.