Progrear boot or not

[Sean3614]

Hello,
I want to make sure the game is legit before I buy it.so here is the images of the game

 

[Tyranix95]

The listing title says: CONVERSION game.

CONVERSION is short for PHOENIXED-CONVERSION.

It means that the board was originally another Title. And the Phoenix code was used to help convert (change) the game to another, different, Title.

So, in sum, nope: It's not an OG Progear board.

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There are other tells, like the label, and the eprom stickers, etc. But, imho, the seller is being up front about the boards conversion status.

 

[shadowkn55]

It's boot. It even says so in the item description. Although sellers like to use the word conversion to avoid the ebay police. A cps2 conversion is nothing more that a boot. It has no shred of legitimacy even by gray market standards like with aes conversions.

 

[Tyranix95]

The eBay listing for those who want to check it out.

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Pro Gear progear no arashi CPS2 CPII jamma conversion game
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pro-Gear-pr...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

[Sean3614]

When I emailed him before asking what game it was before and he did not know.
I thought it could have been just a PHOENIXED cps2 board.
and I know that capcom did some crazy stuff in house.

 

[shadowkn55]

When I emailed him before asking what game it was before and he did not know.
I thought it could have been just a PHOENIXED cps2 board.
and I know that capcom did some crazy stuff in house.

It's a common tactics sellers use to confuse unsuspecting buyers. Phoenixed boards can still be legitimate boards via the mask roms for the graphics and sound samples even if the eproms for the program roms have been altered. I've had a seller try to hustle me a bootleg by calling it a phoenixed board and then later a phoenixed conversion to cover his tracks. Get your money back asap if you bought it already.

 

[Tyranix95]

Most CPS2 converters do not pass the original roms along with the board because they want the board to have the value of the new converted title (and not the old title). So, it's very possible that the seller doesn't know.

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Yeah, very common mistake with guys new to CAPCOM stuff.

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The interesting thing is that Capcom did make a Battery, Blue all eprom Progear board. And released it here in the US. But, it's not a Phoenixed Ed. board. And it does not look like the one in your listing pic.

 

[Sean3614]

Well,
I told the seller I am going to pass on buying the game.
I am glad I did not pay the guy for the board yet.

 

[Sean3614]

Most CPS2 converters do not pass the original roms along with the board because they want the board to have the value of the new converted title (and not the old title). So, it's very possible that the seller doesn't know.

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Yeah, very common mistake with guys new to CAPCOM stuff.

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The interesting thing is that Capcom did make a Battery, Blue all eprom Progear board. And released it here in the US. But, it's not a Phoenixed Ed. board. And it does not look like the one in your listing pic.

IF, the guy had the pictures in the listing I would have passed before i bid on it.
I know most cps eproms have the capcom sticker on them so, I wanted to make 100% sure before I bought the game

 

[Tyranix95]

Ballpark numbers for a Phoenixed-Conversion Progear board around here:

About $125 (payapl, shipped), for a B board. And,
About $150~$165 (payapl, shipped), for both A&B boards.

And deals can be found if you are patient and shop around.

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eBay has a no-boot policy.

You have options.

 

[_rm_]

You can even tell by the first picture that it's a boot!
The original label has "rounded" edges

 

[jonnyturbo]

It is a conversion, not a bootleg. It didn't start life as a Progear but it has been converted using original Capcom hardware and will play the exact same as any phoenixed cps2 board.
I would ask around, they pop up every now and then.
GL.

 

[Kid Panda]

It is a conversion, not a bootleg. It didn't start life as a Progear but it has been converted using original Capcom hardware and will play the exact same as any phoenixed cps2 board.
I would ask around, they pop up every now and then.
GL.

Conversions don't use the original mask roms. They are burned roms. So they are boots.

 

[skinny503]

stupid question: Can a board be Phoenixed, but still be the original game and not a conversion? IIRC once the battery runs out the board is junk unless Phoenixed and all that does is put a new battery and some code back in that was lost when the original battery when tits up?

 

[jonnyturbo]

Conversions don't use the original mask roms. They are burned roms. So they are boots.

Aye but not boots in the sense of the terrible cps1 ones, that aren't running on original hardware, like the Punisher one with the looped soundtrack or the glitchy old boots. Progear is essentially the same game, fraction of the price.

 

[skate323k137]

stupid question: Can a board be Phoenixed, but still be the original game and not a conversion?

That's really the point of phoenixing, to restore the original game that was "lost" when the battery died.

IIRC once the battery runs out the board is junk unless Phoenixed and all that does is put a new battery and some code back in that was lost when the original battery when tits up?

Basically. It doesn't lose code, it loses the encryption keys for the code. Phoneixing just burns unencrypted code to those roms to "fix" the game and remove the need for the battery powered decryption circuit.

If a game is phoenixed as a repair method and is still the same game, it's not a conversion, and nowadays it's basically the same value to most people as a battery board.

 

[Kid Panda]

If a game is phoenixed as a repair method and is still the same game, it's not a conversion, and nowadays it's basically the same value to most people as a battery board.

This, if its a conversion, it's a boot. Wait till you have to pay 200 bucks for a marvel vs capcom or xmen vs sf.

 

[shadowkn55]

Aye but not boots in the sense of the terrible cps1 ones, that aren't running on original hardware, like the Punisher one with the looped soundtrack or the glitchy old boots. Progear is essentially the same game, fraction of the price.

That's the same kind of logic these sellers are using when they call their bootlegs conversions. Just because it uses original boards doesn't give it any form of legitimacy. If you extend that thinking to mvs, I've been needlessly repurposing the many puzzle bobble conversions I come across. Nobody in the neo geo community thinks puzzle bobble boots are conversions because they use snk boards. Generally speaking, no mask roms = bootleg.

 

[jonnyturbo]

That's the same kind of logic these sellers are using when they call their bootlegs conversions. Just because it uses original boards doesn't give it any form of legitimacy. If you extend that thinking to mvs, I've been needlessly repurposing the many puzzle bobble conversions I come across. Nobody in the neo geo community thinks puzzle bobble boots are conversions because they use snk boards. Generally speaking, no mask roms = bootleg.

I'm not a seller, just someone who has owned a converted Progear because I couldn't afford an original. I'm not an advocate of re-purposing boards, I just think that the Cps2 "bootlegs" are decent alternatives if you find one that's already been done.
I'm not trying to change anybodies perceptions on re-purposing original hardware or argue semantics. In this case it's whether you want the original as a collector or the exact same game to play for much cheaper.

 

[ebinsugewa]

This thread seems to have a different interpretation of the word 'boot' or 'bootleg' than the arcade hobby at large. A bootleg generally refers to a game that does not run on its original hardware, like SF2 Rainbow etc. This is a bootleg board: compared to the actual board:

Another reason I refer to this board in particular is that Street Fighter 2: Champion Edition and Hyper Fighting both use the same board. In this thread's parlance, Hyper Fighting is a bootleg, a 4 or 6 ROM (I forget) swap that alters Champion Edition. But clearly it's an official game, the ROM conversion kit is from Capcom, the code was released by Capcom USA. Why is there a distinction between getting the official kit 20 years ago and a collector burning the HF roms and replacing them on his CE board? If the checksum/whatever is right when you burn the ROMs, there's literally no difference between the two. It's the exact code.

I'm not advocating for shady dealings, converting a Street Fighter Alpha to a Progear say and selling it without mentioning that fact, or repairing/altering a board in some way and trying to hide that. I just don't understand the life and death difference this seems to make.

 

[ne7]

It's pretty simple - if the cart/board does not have any of the original roms for the game in question on it, it is clearly a bootleg and it's not a 'repair' or 'conversion'

The reason people get confused about this is that on the Neogeo home system certain folks would bung the REAL maskroms from a MVS cart onto original home system boards (and sometimes take the AES roms and xfer them back to the sacrificed MVS board) in order to create a home cart+MVS cart conversion using original SNK parts.

There were numerous instances at least in the UK of people 'upgrading' original SFII CE boards to hacks like Blackbelt Edition/Red Wave/Rainbow and obviously the official Capcom SFII Turbo (which was available from Capcom officially as a drop in upgrade iirc because of all the unofficial hacks) with a 4 to 6 rom swap - these would obv. not be bootlegs as the board was still chock-full of original Capcom mask-roms...

To phoenix a cps2 game if the battery has failed you only swap 1 to 4 eproms, the rest (of the original MASKROMS and original Eproms) are left where they are - to make a Progear boot you remove ALL roms and replace entirely with your own burnt Eproms.

It's also real easy to spot dimahoo/progear boots as the original games used bloody massive extra sim based boards to host game code/gfx...