Playstation 4 / Orbis discussion and speculation

cannonball

Master Brewer, Genzai Sake Co.
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In my humble legal opinion, I believe this would violate the Sherman Act. It would satisfy the "3 points" and if you found the "right" judge or jury... or if all of the VG companies sign up with this.. you could definitely pursue it. If you consider the second hand game market in competition with the new game market, it would certainly restrict trade and unreasonably choke the market.

I'd be interested in your opinion.

According to the article it appears that Sony is trying to standardize the "online pass" system, so that it relieves the publishers/developers of the burden. The used games will still be sold in stores like Gamestop, but that would need to be activated to be fully unlocked on a new system.

There is absolutely nothing illegal about any of this.
 

Yodd

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Has anyone actually articulated what the "threat" of second hand game sales to the video game industry really is?

Because I just don't buy it.


Personally I believe the two can live side by side. As evidenced by the last 30+ fucking years of video games sales, rentals and second hand markets.

Up until the last couple years where digital distribution has really caught on, I can't think of any point since the Atari 2600 that rental or used game sales have really ever been on the radar of game developers. I know in Japan things are a little different, but thats a different culture with its own series of problems.

Far as I am concerned, if I buy something, I should have the right to later turn around and sell it 2nd hand. Providing I turn over any license associated with it to the new owner and remove any installed copies that I have. While by most EULA's I don't actually own the software, I certainly bought a license to use it and when I sell a used 360 game or whatever, the license automatically goes along with the disc since the two are one and the same. Autodesk lost a case a few years ago based around second hand sales of their software.

"A person who buys a home is nonetheless restricted in his use and subsequent transfer of the home by property laws, zoning ordinances, and fair housing statutes," Judge Richard Jones wrote in his ruling. "No one would characterize the person's possession, however, as something other than ownership. Similarly, the court cannot characterize Autodesk's decision to let its licensees retain possession of the software forever as something other than a transfer of ownership, despite numerous restrictions on that ownership."
 

Renmauzo

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I typically buy new, but my concern with all this online pass stuff and required link to a publisher/developer's server is what will happen years from now when servers are shuttered? This proves to be a problem for DLC especially as I've gone to play games, that, when the server is down or access to 'online' is down, none of the DLC is recognized. My concern now is for games like ME3 where you are required to sign in or you can't even play single player; what happens in the future when I want to replay the series in say 10 years like I often do with SNES games or just older console games in general? Will I not be able to play my game anymore when the servers are closed for good?
 

CrackerMessiah

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Has anyone actually articulated what the "threat" of second hand game sales to the video game industry really is?

Because I just don't buy it.

I'll give it a shot. But a little exposition, perhaps useless, but fun nonetheless.

The first - and only - round of money made is per pressing. Print runs and the like. Developers put together a game, and they agree to sell it in X quantity to a publisher. The publisher, who will press it and package it, will sell those copies to retail outlets.

The retailer gets it, then sells it to you and me. The retailer gets cash. That's cash the retailer made to recoup the price they paid for the physical game. That cash, now with the publisher, is recouped cost for paying the developer.

That first point of sale is final money-making opportunity for the developer and publisher.

You and I play it for a while, then we decide to get rid of it. We could put it up on Craigslist for sale Or we could trade it to a friend. Or we can sell it back to a retailer, like Gamestop. Somehow, that game changes hands to another player who (presumably) hasn't already paid for a new copy of the game before.

Note that last part. When the game changes hands from person to person, there's no money being recouped by the publisher like in the initial transaction.

Gamestop and other used game retailers take the trading aspect and have turned into a business; a business - at least with respect to used games - that devs and publishers don't get a dime from.

That's why digital distribution is seen as "solving" the "problem." You can't trade a download, especially if it's through a proprietary network like PSN or Xbox Live. They're doing the same things with movies and music, and it's annoying as fuck.

This was typed with the aid of beer, but I hope it helps.
 

BIG BEAR

SHOCKbox Developer,
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The only MOFOS that can get away with this sh8t is OPEC.. Somebody @ SONY got dropped on their fckin' head.
* No backwards compatibility with PS3 games (How large is the library??? Are we really missing much here.NOt a real problem but should be easy to incorporate)
* Lockout of used game titles (STOP PLAYIN' SONY.I'll leave it at that.)
* All games locked to a single PSN account (Hackers are going to steal more CC infos.Can you say MASSIVE identity theft?)
* User must be connected to PSN to boot up game, no offline startup (BIG Br..I mean PSN is going to babysit me too?)
AND I foot the bill for all of it???
GO STRAIGHT TO HELL SONY,STRAIGHT TO HELL!!!!
BB
 

smokehouse

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I can easily say I am extremely glad I'm growing bored/tired of modern video games. The current gen has done a pretty good job of squashing what little hope I had for modern gaming. Shitty hardware, dlc issues/prices, games glitches...I just don't care anymore.

Shit like this only fortifies the fact that I don't give a shit about modern games. Let me see, I'll drop a large amount of $$ on hardware that's guaranteed to die an early death, be forced to download lengthy system updates that will crash shit 40% of the time, wait years for expensive software to come out and when they finally do come out, I'm treated to online fees, downloading tons of crap and game crashes...

No thanks, I'll stick to my retro games that still run on a 20 year old system and require no extras to make them work.
 

Castor Troy

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I'm not going to jump on the rumor wagon just yet. But if it is true, then I'll also bail out on the next gen.
 

Renmauzo

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To smokehouse and Big Bear's points, it sounds like in 20 years when PSN doesn't exist anymore (more likely than not), despite the investment, the games will just be a bunch of coasters since you won't be able to play them with no service to log onto. *sigh* I'm glad that my attention has shifted towards arcade gaming.
 

smokehouse

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To smokehouse and Big Bear's points, it sounds like in 20 years when PSN doesn't exist anymore (more likely than not), despite the investment, the games will just be a bunch of coasters since you won't be able to play them with no service to log onto. *sigh* I'm glad that my attention has shifted towards arcade gaming.

I've wondered this myself...

Will no/ending support render such systems bricks?

I'm guessing that given enough time, "retro" gaming will die as well? There will be no games to swap/sell.

I've said for years that in a rather short amount of time, a working 360 will become nearly impossible to find. And before anyone says "why would you want one?" think of the fact someone once said that about the consoles many here collect...
 

HeavyMachineGoob

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If these rumors are true, those who actually buy into the PS4 would have to rely on hackers to prevent the system and games from becoming bricks. Boy, isn't it nice to have hackers around?
 

X

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If these rumors are true, those who actually buy into the PS4 would have to rely on hackers to prevent the system and games from becoming bricks. Boy, isn't it nice to have hackers around?

I was just about to say the same thing. This is why we need to have backups of the ISOS/ROMS and hacked consoles or emulators. Im not into piracy but sometimes hacking has some positive benefits that gives us some control over the stuff we "own".
 

SNKNostalgia

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Let us hope that people go viral on the internet (like some Kony 2012 shit before the guy went crazy) boycotting the systems on launch date. Hit them right in the balls (money).

I never think about it, but Bionic Commando Rearmed 2 requires you to be online to play the game. Luckily I always have an internet connection, but shit man. What other games are doing this BTW?
 

Fritz

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And it looks like I won't be jumping on the PS4 train, or the new Xbox train if they also pull this bullshit.

"I've heard from one reliable industry source that Microsoft intends to incorporate some sort of anti-used game system as part of their so-called Xbox 720. - Kotaku"

It's all speculation right now, Kotaku doesn't have the best rep at times for its 'rumors'.
 

smokehouse

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Rumors or no, this kind of rumor makes sense. Games companies have long shown great disdain for the used market...many have been quoted as comparing it to lost $$. Didn't Sony actually patent some kind of system/mating software or technology some time ago?

This kind of lock-out/up is on the tracks. It may not be this next gen but soon games will no longer come on discs (like the wii VC) and the used gaming market will disappear, there will simply be nothing to trade/sell...it will be virtual purchases only...
 

Yodd

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There is plenty of older games to keep us all busy for the rest of our lifetimes. No need to support these pricks and their bullshit.


Next time you plan to drop $60 on a new game, instead pick up a NES or Genesis and a couple used games. Guaranteed more enjoyable experience and you no longer need to worry about the man trying to keep you down.
 

terry.330

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My biggest concern is the whole being connected to PSN in order to play anything. I know some of the DL 360 games have this feature already.

My internet goes out quite frequently and that usually drives me to pop in a game I've been neglecting. So yeah, fuck that.
 

NeoSneth

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Online connectivity for playing single player games is the future for consoles. It's already integrated into many PC games.....also already cracked.
Get over it.

PS3 backwards compatibility will be near impossible unless they want to go with another shitty CPU like they did with the PS3. It's not going to be that easy.
Get over it


The Next Gen consoles are going to use even more shitty hand waving technology. It's gonna suck.
Get over it
 

Renmauzo

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Let us hope that people go viral on the internet (like some Kony 2012 shit before the guy went crazy) boycotting the systems on launch date. Hit them right in the balls (money).

I never think about it, but Bionic Commando Rearmed 2 requires you to be online to play the game. Luckily I always have an internet connection, but shit man. What other games are doing this BTW?

Final Fight needs the connection too, and I believe there are a few other Capcom ones from what I read. When the PSN was down from that hack job nearly a year ago, I tried to play it and couldn't, checked online, and Capcom caught a lot of flack for making you have an active connection to the PSN in order to play.
 

SonGohan

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Online connectivity for playing single player games is the future for consoles. It's already integrated into many PC games.....also already cracked.
Get over it.

PS3 backwards compatibility will be near impossible unless they want to go with another shitty CPU like they did with the PS3. It's not going to be that easy.
Get over it


The Next Gen consoles are going to use even more shitty hand waving technology. It's gonna suck.
Get over it

People aren't going to get over it.
Get over it.
 

Marek

Banned
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Online connectivity for playing single player games is the future for consoles. It's already integrated into many PC games.....also already cracked.
Get over it.

PS3 backwards compatibility will be near impossible unless they want to go with another shitty CPU like they did with the PS3. It's not going to be that easy.
Get over it


The Next Gen consoles are going to use even more shitty hand waving technology. It's gonna suck.
Get over it

RAGE
 
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