PC Engine Super System3 RGB Tech Support.

MobiusStripTech

Mr. Big's Thug
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Posts
201
The easiest thing to do is open the scart head and see if there are any components on the sync line. In the pictures of the cheap cable earlier in the thread it was the yellow wire that had no components.

If there are components on that line then it's hooked up to the csync pin for sure. If it's not then you would need to use a multimeter to check for continuity between the SCART sync pin and the console side sync pin.

Just so people know I am not blowing smoke about TTL causing damage on those devices, superg has stated multiple times in the shmups thread that TTL will cause issues and damage the switch. The framemeister has it in the owners manual. I believe the OSSC has it in the source materials if I recall correctly.
 

turdkind

War Room Troll
Joined
Oct 4, 2001
Posts
1,565
The easiest thing to do is open the scart head and see if there are any components on the sync line. In the pictures of the cheap cable earlier in the thread it was the yellow wire that had no components.

If there are components on that line then it's hooked up to the csync pin for sure. If it's not then you would need to use a multimeter to check for continuity between the SCART sync pin and the console side sync pin.

Just so people know I am not blowing smoke about TTL causing damage on those devices, superg has stated multiple times in the shmups thread that TTL will cause issues and damage the switch. The framemeister has it in the owners manual. I believe the OSSC has it in the source materials if I recall correctly.

Just so I'm clear, the problem is with cheap cables that have no resistors/caps and are connected to the sync pin on the console side, correct? That will output raw TTL and cause problems with/damage to gscart, OSSC, etc. More expensive cables (should) have appropriate components in the cable to attenuate the signal coming from the sync pin and provide "clean" csync. I just took my Genesis 1 cable apart and found a 220 uF cap in there; I expect the same from the Genesis 2 cable I have on the way.

I appreciate everyone's willingness to discuss RGB 101 with us; I know this is old hat to many of you and possibly a bit annoying. I thought I had this stuff straight, but hearing that the wrong cable can damage a few hundred dollars' worth of equipment has me second-guessing my setup, even though it looks fantastic and I've had no problems.
 

Kez

Bashful Neophyte
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Posts
11
Yep, that is the cable I am using. it came from RetroGameAccessories (Retro-access). There are resistors in there but you can only see one in the photos. I guess they are installed directly on to the SCART cable pins based on that one's positioning. This cable works perfectly on my Genesis 2 which is what it was designed for originally.

The sync stripping occurring on the LCD is from the Framemeister. The BVM input is direct from the gscartsw lite.

Well, there should be 75 ohm resistors on the RGB lines - connected to the raised legs of the 3 capacitors. They are not in the picture but they could be connected at the DIN end (which would be better, really). You have a green PCB in there also, which is the other point I was referring to. This is not a "standard" Genesis 2 cable, although it may work. In the past retro access sold a "boosted sync" cable that had an amp on the csync line, so that might be what it is.
 

MobiusStripTech

Mr. Big's Thug
Joined
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Posts
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Well, there should be 75 ohm resistors on the RGB lines - connected to the raised legs of the 3 capacitors. They are not in the picture but they could be connected at the DIN end (which would be better, really). You have a green PCB in there also, which is the other point I was referring to. This is not a "standard" Genesis 2 cable, although it may work. In the past retro access sold a "boosted sync" cable that had an amp on the csync line, so that might be what it is.

Correct. The issue is if the sync line has no components it is putting out pure TTL which is 5v and the device is expecting ~1.8v. Basically you want to look for a 220uf cap and a 470ohm resistor on the sync line. RetroGamingCables uses SCART head PCBs instead of connecting wires to the pins or components to pins. Nothing wrong with this approach, just slightly more expensive in manufacturing, but faster to produce.

The "boosted" sync was an issue because both Retro-Access and RetroGamingCables were for a time using THS7314 chips to "boost" the sync signal. This was actually causing the voltage to increase. Both manufacturers stopped selling those types of cables more than a year ago. So you would have to have an older cable from either of them to potentially have that issue.

Also, ask questions. It's better to ask than to just assume and hope you were right.
 

Kez

Bashful Neophyte
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Posts
11
Also, ask questions. It's better to ask than to just assume and hope you were right.

I'm just going by the pictures of the cable that Eatitup posted a couple pages back, definitely looks like one of those old boosted sync cables to me.
 

MobiusStripTech

Mr. Big's Thug
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Posts
201
I just looked at that board and it might be the buffered sync. The number of pins on the chip match up to the buffered ones. Technically those are fine for the Genesis but I have no idea how they would react in this case.

The buffered sync cables use a logic buffer on the sync line whereas the boosted sync boards used video amplifiers like the ths7314.

Either way I would try a cable without the buffer and see if it makes a difference.
 

TuSecsy

War Room Troll
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Mar 26, 2016
Posts
50
To be fair, you do have a Patreon that you ask people to pledge to. That's asking for free money, isn't it?

He also gives away items he gets for free via begging to said Patreon. All while riding around on his alcohol-fueled high-horse. Why anyone would give him money for his garbage videos is beyond me. Maybe if he were doing videos on how to become morbidly obese in NYC. That is quite impressive.
 
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opt2not

Mature's Make-up Artist
Joined
May 25, 2011
Posts
1,352
He also gives away items he gets for free via begging to said Patreon. All while riding around on his alcohol-fueled high-horse. Why anyone would give him money for his garbage videos is beyond me. Maybe if he were doing videos on how to become morbidly obese in NYC. That is quite impressive.
You two faced bitch. You were talking mad shit on shmups on how garbage this place is, yet you are here trying your tirade on Bob. Funny I don't see you throwing stones at neosd as much as you're doing on shmups. You fucking pussy.

FWIW I was pointing out that was the one thing he does asks for free. So "never" is inaccurate.
I like Bob and his videos. Low-budget, yes. Alcohol-fueled, fuck yes. High-horse? No. Bob's pretty humble, more than I can say for a shit stain like you.
 

jamon1567

New Challenger
Joined
Jan 13, 2018
Posts
20
OH SHIT

Shots+Fired13.jpg
 

TuSecsy

War Room Troll
Joined
Mar 26, 2016
Posts
50
You two faced bitch. You were talking mad shit on shmups on how garbage this place is, yet you are here trying your tirade on Bob. Funny I don't see you throwing stones at neosd as much as you're doing on shmups. You fucking pussy.

FWIW I was pointing out that was the one thing he does asks for free. So "never" is inaccurate.
I like Bob and his videos. Low-budget, yes. Alcohol-fueled, fuck yes. High-horse? No. Bob's pretty humble, more than I can say for a shit stain like you.

Well I didn't think badmouthing the site I'm currently on would be such a great idea?

"Bob is humble" is definitely the laugh of the day though, so thanks for that. The fact that you're such a Bob dick suck is definitely not surprising.
 
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ChuChu Flamingo

We have purposely, trained him wrong, ...as a joke
Joined
Nov 23, 2010
Posts
2,301
The easiest thing to do is open the scart head and see if there are any components on the sync line. In the pictures of the cheap cable earlier in the thread it was the yellow wire that had no components.

If there are components on that line then it's hooked up to the csync pin for sure. If it's not then you would need to use a multimeter to check for continuity between the SCART sync pin and the console side sync pin.

Just so people know I am not blowing smoke about TTL causing damage on those devices, superg has stated multiple times in the shmups thread that TTL will cause issues and damage the switch. The framemeister has it in the owners manual. I believe the OSSC has it in the source materials if I recall correctly.

On my Gscart lite I am using CSYNC with SNES/Sega Saturn Model 2. You really just need to make sure the CSYNC is properly attenuated with the right resistor (470 ohm resistor and 220uF caps for Sega Saturn model 2 and 330 ohm resistor for NA SNES / JPN SFC iirc). Just make sure to double check on retrorgbs site to see what is needed.

As long as the CSYNC is properly attenuated with the correct resistor (which varies depending upon the console and sometimes even revision) you will be fine.

But yeah like you said you want to make sure your scart cable has the proper resistor/capacitors or even what type of sync it is using (luma/csync/composite video) then you will need to open it up and look at some diagrams. Very easy to test if you have the proper resistor with a multimeter. It is kind of a pain in the ass for SNES/N64 connectors since getting a probe in there is quite difficult.

In any case here is a video from RetroRGB on how to do it. Pretty easy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3sE3uk5kPU
 
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opt2not

Mature's Make-up Artist
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May 25, 2011
Posts
1,352
Well I didn't think badmouthing the site I'm currently on would be such a great idea?

"Bob is humble" is definitely the laugh of the day though, so thanks for that. The fact that you're such a Bob dick suck is definitely not surprising.
And now you’re pulling out that homo shit, the exact thing you were crying about on the shmups forum. Keep trying hard son.
 

Rot

Calvin & Hobbes, ,
Staff member
Joined
Jul 8, 2003
Posts
11,368
HEY lads... Here's something to think about....

We have some of the best tech fella's on the netz... they all believe in helping our community... so, this RGB cable thing will eventually be resolved...

This is why Neosd and his team like it here... we will help out if humanly possible...

Concerning, The Schmups thing... it's System11's website... and he's a nice site owner...

Inter forum spats are so 80's... fun tho they maybe... SO... what I'm trying to say is...

Let's focus on our website and our userbase... The tech lads will solve it and our userbase gets the benefits...

xROTx

PS. I've been known to funster... but when all is said and done... my MAIN priority is to the site and the community here...

With the exception of a few idiots of course... everyone gets looked after...
 

Rot

Calvin & Hobbes, ,
Staff member
Joined
Jul 8, 2003
Posts
11,368
Well I didn't think badmouthing the site I'm currently on would be such a great idea?

"Bob is humble" is definitely the laugh of the day though, so thanks for that. The fact that you're such a Bob dick suck is definitely not surprising.

I'm reading up Scmhups now... Mmhh... Seems you don't like the atmosphere at NG.com very much...

I appreciate NG.com aint everyones cup of tea... BUT if you're gonna bad mouth us... it may lead to a "strained" relationship...

I've also been reading that NG.com isn't the best place for Terraonion...

That's a decision for Neosd and his team... atm... he gets the benefits of our forum concerning...

1. Bandwidth...
2. Forum Space...
3. Customer tech support...

HOWEVER... if Alex and his team want to create their own dedicated web... that's also fine... I will simply just move the threads back to their relevant forums and delete this one...

Aint no biggie to me...

xROTx

PS. Concerning the mod'ding of this website... It is the way it is...

EDIT. If you wish new mods... then make a poll... see how it goes...
RE-EDIT. If you wish a mod removed... then make a poll... pretty sure there will be only one name on the poll for removal currently :)
 

pixeljunkie

Whilst Drunk., I Found God., Booze = Bad.,
Joined
Dec 12, 2003
Posts
5,782
I'm reading up Scmhups now... Mmhh... Seems you don't like the atmosphere at NG.com very much...

I appreciate NG.com aint everyones cup of tea... BUT if you're gonna bad mouth us... it may lead to a "strained" relationship...

I've also been reading that NG.com isn't the best place for Terraonion...

That's a decision for Neosd and his team... atm... he gets the benefits of our forum concerning...

1. Bandwidth...
2. Forum Space...
3. Customer tech support...

HOWEVER... if Alex and his team want to create their own dedicated web... that's also fine... I will simply just move the threads back to their relevant forums and delete this one...

Aint no biggie to me...

xROTx

PS. Concerning the mod'ding of this website... It is the way it is...

EDIT. If you wish new mods... then make a poll... see how it goes...
RE-EDIT. If you wish a mod removed... then make a poll... pretty sure there will be only one name on the poll for removal currently :)

Dealing with all this would give me heartburn - thanks for dealing with all of it.

Sidenote: All of this just leaves the worst taste in my mouth. The "scene" is shit now. Total shit. Everyone expects everything and they want it for nothing. This HAS to be the influx of the next generation of nerds getting into all this. Millennials? I don't know, I'm 40...how old are all the little bitches bitching about getting something that in my brain is literally magic?

I have a Jp21 pin RGB cable I bought for my Megadrive 2 years ago. Anxious to test it out when my system comes. But jesus...all this cry-baby bitching is so annoying. When dealing with indie projects like this, early adopters ARE the testing a lot of times. Goddammnnnn so annoying.

They all have zero gratitude.
 

greatfunky

Mr. Big's Thug
Joined
Apr 24, 2016
Posts
196
Dealing with all this would give me heartburn - thanks for dealing with all of it.

Sidenote: All of this just leaves the worst taste in my mouth. The "scene" is shit now. Total shit. Everyone expects everything and they want it for nothing. This HAS to be the influx of the next generation of nerds getting into all this. Millennials? I don't know, I'm 40...how old are all the little bitches bitching about getting something that in my brain is literally magic?

I have a Jp21 pin RGB cable I bought for my Megadrive 2 years ago. Anxious to test it out when my system comes. But jesus...all this cry-baby bitching is so annoying. When dealing with indie projects like this, early adopters ARE the testing a lot of times. Goddammnnnn so annoying.

They all have zero gratitude.

Same age and same opinion here
Wow-good-job-clap-clap-clap-GIF.gif
 

RAZO

Kyo's Flame
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Posts
8,445
Dealing with all this would give me heartburn - thanks for dealing with all of it.

Sidenote: All of this just leaves the worst taste in my mouth. The "scene" is shit now. Total shit. Everyone expects everything and they want it for nothing. This HAS to be the influx of the next generation of nerds getting into all this. Millennials? I don't know, I'm 40...how old are all the little bitches bitching about getting something that in my brain is literally magic?

I have a Jp21 pin RGB cable I bought for my Megadrive 2 years ago. Anxious to test it out when my system comes. But jesus...all this cry-baby bitching is so annoying. When dealing with indie projects like this, early adopters ARE the testing a lot of times. Goddammnnnn so annoying.

They all have zero gratitude.

I agree PJ. I guess it's a age thing. Not saying I don't want to see people happy and get this cable thing resolved but it seems like these new gamers now in days have a heart attack when things go wrong and someone can't get it resolved in one day.
 

pixeljunkie

Whilst Drunk., I Found God., Booze = Bad.,
Joined
Dec 12, 2003
Posts
5,782
I agree PJ. I guess it's a age thing. Not saying I don't want to see people happy and get this cable thing resolved but it seems like these new gamers now in days have a heart attack when things go wrong and someone can't get it resolved in one day.

It's like nobody knows the perils of early-adopting. So painfully annoying.
 

Jibbajaba

Ralfredacc's Worst Nightmare
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Posts
5,608
I agree. I hate it when kids bitch about the price of Everdrives, for instance. When I was a lad, I would have poured gasoline on my little sister and lit her on fire if it meant that I had a cartridge with fucking EVERY NES GAME EVER MADE on it. Same goes for this deal. I'm sorry that it isn't perfect in every single way, but have you tried collecting TG16/PCE games instead? :eyeroll:
 

RevQuixo

Rugal's Panther
20 Year Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2001
Posts
3,886
Well to play devil's advocate here..not getting the output right is a pretty big faux pas. One that could have probably been avoided with a few more beta, proto testers.
 

pixeljunkie

Whilst Drunk., I Found God., Booze = Bad.,
Joined
Dec 12, 2003
Posts
5,782
Well to play devil's advocate here..not getting the output right is a pretty big faux pas. One that could have probably been avoided with a few more beta, proto testers.

Again...EARLY ADOPTERS are the people who risk such things. There is no devil's advocate. The ONLY example that would warrant a bitchy response to Terraonion is if they:

A.) took money and ran
B.) delivered a product that didn't function [minutiae regarding RGB output doesn't count]
C.) delayed release for a year+
D.) Proven they don't care about fixing problems with previous products

I could go on...

edit: I agree with you btw, I just don't agree with the squeaky wheel bitches. I think it was indeed an error...but one I have zero worries about them figuring out given their track record so far, combined with the uncharted territory they are literally creating with such a device.

Point being, details like we are seeing now in terms of the problems people are having are being way blown out of proportion with ZERO consideration of all the factors involved. This is essentially homebrew hardware and to expect Terraonion to have the resources of a large company is laughable.
 
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