Obama vs. McCain, it officially begins: Clusterfuck to the White House

bokmeow

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Neo Geo MVS said:
Right when I think your going to say something intelligent you go and fuk it up.

Only stupid people blame others for their misery because they live in a place with no opportunities.

Loopz your a dummy why dont you go troll around posting in every thread you can find in the forum to boost up your post count. :lolz:

Loopz's IQ = Your IQ x 1,000.

His statement needs some qualification, but nothing he has said needs correction.

The severity of the Iraqi refugee crisis is only surpassed by the Palestinian and Sudan refugee crisis.

Israel celebrates its 60th anniversary this year. 60 years is how long the Palestinians have been under occupation.
 

norton9478

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bokmeow said:
Loopz's IQ = Your IQ x 1,000.

His statement needs some qualification, but nothing he has said needs correction.

The severity of the Iraqi refugee crisis is only surpassed by the Palestinian and Sudan refugee crisis.

Israel celebrates its 60th anniversary this year. 60 years is how long the Palestinians have been under occupation.

If Canada ever Invaded us and killed my family, I'd suit up and blow my self up in a Tim Horton's or some shit.
 
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bokmeow said:
Loopz's IQ = Your IQ x 1,000.

His statement needs some qualification, but nothing he has said needs correction.

The severity of the Iraqi refugee crisis is only surpassed by the Palestinian and Sudan refugee crisis.

Israel celebrates its 60th anniversary this year. 60 years is how long the Palestinians have been under occupation.

While the Palestinians have been "occupied", the dispute over the Israeli land is more complex than that. The most workable solution remains the seperation of the Gaza Strip and West Bank, but the rest of Israel isn't worth calling an "occupation" anymore.
 

abasuto

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Israel's primary use in the world is to suck off our foreign aid. The smartest thing America could do is remove all aid and ties to them.
 

aria

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Abasuto said:
Israel's primary use in the world is to suck off our foreign aid. The smartest thing America could do is remove all aid and ties to them.

Well, realistically we only give a fraction of our budget to foreign military aid, and very very little goes to Israel --they've proven they can take care of themselves.
 

bokmeow

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jethrek said:
While the Palestinians have been "occupied", the dispute over the Israeli land is more complex than that. The most workable solution remains the seperation of the Gaza Strip and West Bank, but the rest of Israel isn't worth calling an "occupation" anymore.

The problem is complex, but Israel didn't commit to a 2 state solution until fairly recently. Gaza Strip only stopped being an occupation after Israel pulled out in 2005. Palestine and Palestinians were in serious danger of being wiped off the map until the Palestinian resistance led by Arafat, which for better or for worse, has been the aspirations of Palestinian statehood. Ironically, Hamas, once the offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood founded in Egypt, was doing Israel's bidding to sabotage the PLO.
 

Marek

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Abasuto said:
Israel's primary use in the world is to suck off our foreign aid. The smartest thing America could do is remove all aid and ties to them.

Yes but when the red calf is born and Jesus walks the Earth once again we dont want the Holy Land controlled by fucking Muslims do we? DO WE?!?
 

Segata_Sanshiro

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Nesagwa: Hadn't watched the video yet, no.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/opinion/25brooks.html

It appears Barack will need to make a serious misstep in order to avoid the nomination. After the Jeremiah Wright incident, I am worried, though. What else is going to be dredged up from his past? I'm guessing whatever dirt will be saved for August/September for another swiftboating.

McCain is pulling ahead in national polls. For the last seven years it's been 'Bush sucks,' Bush this and Bush that, and now if the democrats don't successfully paint McCain as running for a 'third Bush term,' they won't be able to cash in on the vitriol.
 

aria

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Another interesting article on foreign opinion on the US election, this time from the WSJ:

If Foreigners Could Vote in '08
Presidential Candidates Inspire Allegiances On Every Continent
By DAVID LUHNOW in Rio de Janeiro, JOHN W. MILLER in Brussels, and SARAH CHILDRESS in Nairobi
March 26, 2008; Page A5

NA-AP853_WOrldv_20080325184415.gif


For America's presidential candidates, the global electoral map is looking as divided as the domestic one.

When foreigners look at the three contenders, Sen. Barack Obama seems to have the lead among Europeans and Africans. Sen. Hillary Clinton is popular among Mexicans and Chinese. Sen. John McCain just returned from a campaign swing through the Middle East and Europe.

U.S. presidential contests often attract interest from foreign countries. The world's sole superpower has such an impact on the globe that, as a Belgian newspaper recently suggested, the rest of the world may feel it should be allowed to vote, too.

This time around, all three candidates have made restoring America's stature abroad a key part of their foreign-policy platforms, making overseas opinions of the U.S. of greater interest to American voters. And the fact that Sen. Obama -- a man with African and Muslim roots and an Arabic middle name, Hussein -- could become U.S. president has created buzz around the world. In Germany, the title of a recent book, "Obama: the Black Kennedy," echoes frequent newspaper headlines comparing Sen. Obama with Germany's favorite former U.S. president. In Kenya, the homeland of Sen. Obama's father, people order the local beer, Senator, by asking for an "Obama."

As in the U.S., however, some people elsewhere harbor doubts about both Sen. Obama's experience and his policies. In China and Mexico, two countries with economies that rely on exports to the U.S., people fret over the senator's antitrade rhetoric and largely back Sen. Clinton on the assumption she will follow her husband's free-trade agenda.

There also are concerns about Sen. Obama's mettle in places like Colombia and Israel, where security concerns trump other issues. In January, the former Israeli ambassador to the U.S., Danny Ayalon, wrote an article headlined "Who are you, Barack Obama?" raising concerns about his stand on the Israeli-Palestinian issue.

Sen. Clinton also gets higher marks outside Europe, especially in Mexico and China, where she benefits from her husband's popular presidency. In Mexico, listeners calling in to one Mexico City radio station picked Sen. Clinton over Sen. Obama, 65%-34%, mostly because of former President Bill Clinton's legacy in signing the North American Free Trade Agreement. Deng Jie, owner of a business in Beijing, said, "I don't know who Obama is. But I think I wish Hillary wins because during the eight years that her husband, Mr. Clinton, was in the position, the U.S. economy went well."

Sen. McCain's recent trip through Iraq, Israel, Jordan and Europe was designed to showcase himself as comfortable with world leaders, knowledgeable about world affairs and able to bolster foreign opinion of the U.S. He ran into embarrassing press coverage when he mistakenly said Iranians were training al Qaeda fighters and sending them back into Iraq. His visit was welcomed in France "because right now, he's seen as an adversary to [George W.] Bush and thus friendly," says Patrick Jarreau, a political reporter for French newspaper Le Monde.

For many Europeans, Sen. Obama's candidacy "is romantic," says Elmar Brok, a German member of the European Parliament and a member of the Parliament's committee on U.S. relations.

Part of Sen. Obama's appeal globally is that he spent part of his childhood in Indonesia and had a Kenyan father, making him particularly popular in Africa.

The western part of Kenya is the ancestral home of the Luo tribe to which Sen. Obama's father belonged. The senator's grandmother is alive and has grown accustomed to foreign journalists tramping to her village home in the area. The rise of a favorite son has been a welcome change from Kenya's own presidential election. The vote was marred by irregularities in late December, spiraling into open ethnic warfare that has killed hundreds. Raila Odinga, the opposition presidential candidate who recently made peace with the Kenya government over the vote, is also a Luo and has called Sen. Obama a "cousin" on the campaign trail.

Muslims across the Middle East have also been drawn into the race, partly because of Sen. Obama's Muslim roots. A practicing Christian, the senator has described his father as a nonpracticing Muslim. "What he has accomplished so far...is in itself an unprecedented U.S. social revolution," wrote leading Egyptian-American democracy activist Saad Eddin Ibrahim in a Cairo newspaper. "If he becomes the president of America, this 'revolution' will become a global one."

But the fascination with Sen. Obama's roots also is tinged with a deep skepticism over how much a fresh face in the White House might change American policy.

Hossein Karmun runs a small grocery store in an Arab-Turkish neighborhood in Brussels and supports Sen. Obama, but he doubts Americans will embrace him in the end. "His middle name is like my name; how is he going to win in America?"
 

Nesagwa

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Kazuki Dash said:
Has anybody heard news about the apparent lie/misleading account Clinton gave about her 1996 visit to Tuzla, Bosnia? I saw a quick mention about it this morning on TV but didn't get a full impression on what it was about. So I found something with more info:

link with embedded video

Personally, this raises serious doubts about the "experience" she keeps saying she has but I'm wondering if this will even get any kind of attention since the networks seem more concerned with maintaining the drama around Richardson's endorsement by constantly going back to that idiot James Carville's "Judas" reference. Way to disregard Richardson's message about discussing the actual issues that matter to Americans instead of feeding this friggin soap opera.

P.S. Remember Hillary's "3AM" ad? Casey Knowles does, and has her own response.

Follow up:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/03/i-was-sleep-dep.html

Clinton said she was "sleep-deprived" and "misspoke" when she said last week that she landed under sniper fire during a trip to Bosnia in 1996, when she was first lady.

She has claimed these things more than once and is back tracking pretty sloppily and hard right now.
 

Poonman

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LOL "democracy".

How many of you are asking for biometric national ID cards right now?
How many of you will have a say when they start tracking your movements with RFID chips?

GOP and Dems are playing good cop/bad cop with people....but both are looking to "arrest" you. Discussing bullshit like this only lends credence to this crooked assed system.
 

Nesagwa

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Sp0o/\/?! said:
LOL "democracy".

How many of you are asking for biometric national ID cards right now?
How many of you will have a say when they start tracking your movements with RFID chips?

GOP and Dems are playing good cop/bad cop with people....but both are looking to "arrest" you. Discussing bullshit like this only lends credence to this crooked assed system.

We have another thread for that.

Go argue with bobak for me.
 

bokmeow

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Bobak said:
Another interesting article on foreign opinion on the US election, this time from the WSJ:

It's interesting that the foreigners are all voting in the Democratic Party column.

Chalk France up for Obama too. I heard it on NPR Morning Edition that the country is currently in Obama Mania.
 

norton9478

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bokmeow said:
It's interesting that the foreigners are all voting in the Democratic Party column.

Chalk France up for Obama too. I heard it on NPR Morning Edition that the country is currently in Obama Mania.

I'm surprised that all of the Middle East hasn't scoffed at the idea of a Muslim's son becoming
a Christian...

Isn't that punishable by death in some circles?
 

evil wasabi

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Loopz said:
Not to mention the fact that terrorism had existed in every corner of the world before that, and numerous attacks on US interests/citizens in the 1980s (El-Al counter massacre in Rome, the Achille Lauro, Pan-Am bombing over Lockerbie, numerous other hijackings).

Do we pin those on the Reagan and Bush admins? Reagan pulled troops out of Lebanon after the bombing at the barracks killed over 240 US Marines.
Was that "cut and run"?

The bottom line here is that as long as there are pissed off, angry people in any corner of the globe who see an outside power as the cause for their misery, the potential for terror exists. It is a cheap way to score political points against an awesome military power like the US. It's far more cost-effective (not to mention the moral advantages) to address the root causes of terrorism by trying to bring the Israeli/Palestinian question to the table and battling poverty everywhere else.

You simply cannot make it a policy to kill everyone who hates you. It isn't morally or fiscally responsible in the least. You respond to direct actionable threats, you install the best security you can, and then you tackle the rest via diplomatic means and trying to win hearts and minds. The whole neo-conservative experiment in Iraq has been an unmitigated disaster and anyone who believes otherwise either isn't paying attention to reality or hates being wrong, or both.

Terror will always exist, especially in an age of such a lopsided military advantage.
We have become so powerful that we have basically made conventional military force obsolete. Think of it this way...if you were pissed off at Michael Jordan, and he insisted on kicking your ass playing one-on-one hoops...would you keep playing, or would you tell him to fuck off and try to get him to play air hockey?
Bush took the bait and put his quarter into a game he has no idea how to play.

I like this post, but I don't agree that simple poverty alone leads to terrorism. There needs to be a strong feeling of exploitation. We see terrorism, in its many shapes and faces, through those we exploit. These people live in poverty and when they work, the lions share goes to some guy in the G8. Not necessarily to you, or me, but just some player who probably didn't even need another euro.

Rather than fighting terrorism, the US should look to curtailing the exploitation committed by US expats. At least then the US won't be so hated. Arabs and Hispanics can turn on the real problem - the Brits.
 

norton9478

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What's the global Appeal of the only candidate born outside of the USA?
 
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After the disastrous (for Republicans) 2006 elections that overturned GOP control of both the Senate and House, it seems that state Republican parties are in piss-poor condition financially.

This could very well prove problematic for McCain, who will be facing a super-energized and cash-flush Democratic opponent... or maybe even Hillary Clinton.

;)
 

norton9478

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The real question for the GOP is:

Do we sink all of our resources into defending our congressional races (IN VERY SERIOUS TROUBLE) or John McCain?

I don't see them being able to do both...
 

norton9478

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I don't think that the pledged delegates will switch...

The convention is an awesome party... And they want to be able to go every 4 years...
 
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norton9478 said:
The real question for the GOP is:

Do we sink all of our resources into defending our congressional races (IN VERY SERIOUS TROUBLE) or John McCain?

I don't see them being able to do both...


This is a very real problem for the GOP. A lot of Republicans aren't even running again this year, and a lot of seats are going to be lost if some cash doesn't back them. The problem is that often congressional seats can swing by presidential coattails in a major election, so it might be easier to just focus on a McCain win and hope to preserve seats that way.
 

Nesagwa

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RUH ROH!

Experts Question Whether Clinton Campaign Finance Case Will Impact '08 Race

(CNSNews.com) - The legal and political implications of a Hollywood mogul's lawsuit against Democratic presidential frontrunner Hillary Clinton are not yet clear, but legal experts are not holding their breath.

In some ways, it's old news with a new twist. The alleged corruption in high places occurred in 2000, when the then-first lady was seeking her first term as a U.S. senator from New York. That's when Hollywood mainstay Peter Paul produced a fundraising event that he says amounted to a nearly $2 million in-kind campaign contribution.

Paul at the time was majority co-owner, with comic book icon Stan Lee, of a publicly-traded Internet company, Stan Lee Media. The company later collapsed -- as did Paul's relationship with Bill and Hillary Clinton.

What is new is the potentially incriminating videotape of Hillary Clinton speaking with Paul, Lee and director Aaron Tonkin in the summer of 2000 about the forthcoming fundraiser, which featured such celebrities as Cher, Diana Ross and Brad Pitt.

The star-studded August 2000 event was later deemed to be a violation of federal campaign finance laws: The Clinton campaign had to pay a $35,000 fine to the Federal Elections Committee. Clinton's campaign finance director David Rosen was accused of lying to the FEC, indicted, but eventually acquitted.

Throughout, Clinton's staff said she played no role in planning the fundraiser. Yet the tape depicts Clinton expressing enthusiasm about the event and telling Paul to contact her aide any time to further plan details.

If Clinton helped to plan the event, it could legally constitute a direct hard money donation to her Senate campaign, rather than to her joint fundraising committee, "New York Senate 2000." If that is the case, the donation from Paul would be more than a thousand times the legal limit for an individual donation. Knowingly soliciting a contribution of $25,000 or more is a felony punishable by up to five years in prison.

If a California appeals court allows the video as evidence in the case, it may have some consequences for next year's campaign.

(The California Court of Appeals, Second Appellate District, is considering a case brought by Paul, who is appealing a California Superior Court ruling dismissing Clinton from an earlier lawsuit on the grounds it was frivolous. In his original lawsuit, Paul is suing Hillary and Bill Clintons and others, claiming their actions cost him his multi-million dollar Internet venture. Paul contends that in exchange for producing the fundraising event, President Clinton agreed to work as a rainmaker for the company after leaving the White House. Paul says the former president reneged.)

The case presents the classic question of what Clinton knew and when she knew it, said election lawyer John Armor. He said the tape shows that Clinton allegedly committed at least four felonies pertaining to illegal campaign fundraising and obstructing subsequent federal investigations into the matter.

"Following on that question is how many people lied for her in how many venues and violated how many laws in order to keep anyone from finding out how much she knew, when she knew it and what she herself did wrong," said Armor. He is not directly involved in the Paul case, but was interviewed for the documentary on the case, produced by Paul.

But according to Paul Ryan, associate legal counsel for the Campaign Legal Center, the tape is not necessarily a slam dunk against Clinton or her 2000 Senate campaign. In-kind contributions can be especially difficult, said Ryan, who when he spoke to Cybercast News Service had not yet seen the video.

"The problem with soft money was loopholes," Ryan said. "Hard money is determined by who the check is written to. Knowledge is not the defining factor - it's control and benefit. The further away a candidate gets from direct control, the harder it is to prove a coordinated in-kind contribution."

'Historic'

At no point on the tape did Clinton suggest that the event and the Paul donation were not going directly to her campaign, and the other three in the conversation referenced it repeatedly. At one point, Tonkin said the celebrities are "coming out in full force knowing this is for your Senate race, it's unbelievable."

Clinton replied, "I'm just thrilled. I'll check in with you from time to time because I know that putting something like this together is challenging even when people are enthusiastic and looking forward to doing it."

Clinton also says on the tape that Paul and her chief campaign aide "talk all the time, so she'll be the person to convey whatever I need."

Paul calls the release of the five-minute taped conversation -- which he obtained in April after the U.S. attorney's office in New York released about 90 tapes -- historic.

"No presidential candidate was ever caught on videotape engaged in felony," Paul told Cybercast News Service. "No candidate [has ever been] engaged in major civil fraud suit [that] she was forced to testify in."

If Clinton is required to testify, as Paul hopes, it could be a major distraction during her campaign.

Neither Clinton's campaign office nor her attorney, David Kendall, responded to requests for comment on this story.

In a written declaration for the California court filed on April 7, 2006, Clinton said only that she did not remember discussions with Paul about the fundraiser.

"I have no recollection whatsoever of discussing any arrangement with him whereby he would support my campaign for the United States Senate in exchange for anything from me or then-President Clinton," Clinton wrote.

"I do not believe I would make such a statement because I believe I would remember such a discussion if it had occurred," she added.

The Clinton attorneys in recent briefs point out that Paul is a convicted felon. He pleaded guilty to manipulating his company's stock price in 2001 and pleaded guilty to a previous felony of defrauding the Cuban government in 1979.

Paul accuses the Clinton camp of bringing up his history in a bid to divert attention away from the facts of the case. "I was held accountable for what I did," he said. "When are they going to be held accountable?"

Even if Clinton is forced to testify under oath in 2008, and if Paul's assertions are proven true, some experts do not foresee significant political and legal ramifications.

From a political perspective, the public stopped caring about alleged misdeeds by either of the Clintons, said Gary Rose, political science professor at Sacred Heart University.

"When it comes to the Clintons, they are generally immune to public condemnation regarding ethical lapses and violations of the law," Rose told Cybercast News Service. "If this case continues into the general election, we'll see how it affects swing voters and independents, but it is not going to derail her bid for the nomination. I still remember Bill Clinton's polls, and two-thirds of voters said they didn't trust him but voted for him irrespective of his morality or ethics."

Even critics of Clinton don't think the case will harm her politically.

"She's going to hold the highest office in the country. She's got the money, the organization and the FBI files," James Nesfield, president of the Equal Justice Foundation of America (EJFA), said in an interview.

Nesfield, who helped the New York State Attorney General's office target corporate corruption, is not a disinterested party, having bought the troubled Stan Lee Media firm.

He said the EJFA's broad and longer-term aim is to inform government and corporate whistleblowers of their rights and encourage them to come forward, but its key focus for the immediate future will be educating the public about the Paul case.

If Clinton won't face justice, the public should at least know of her misdeeds, Nesfield said.

"I'm not anti-Hillary," he added. "I'm just anti-not following the law."

Pull the ole "I cant remember" defense.

Also:

"As expected, one of the two major Democratic candidates saw a downturn in the latest NBC/WSJ poll, but it's not the candidate that you think. Hillary Clinton is sporting the lowest personal ratings of the campaign. Moreover, her 37% positive rating is the lowest the NBC/WSJ poll has recorded since March 2001"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/26/hillarys-approval-rating_n_93614.html
 
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