NG.com Gun Control Discussion

[StaticX]

I thought shit-stick Fresno was the poorest. Or whatever the hell county Stockton is in.

Wish it was, it's not though. I think Detroit wins in the country. San berdoo is The poorest.

 

[greedostick]

I thought shit-stick Fresno was the poorest. Or whatever the hell county Stockton is in.

Well they may have been in the ghetto, I'm not from there.. But their target was still the most defenseless target they could have picked. If they had went guns blazing in the streets maybe it would have went different.

I forgot all about titty censored Nam. So I stand corrected on my statement. But all that means is they had the opportunity to play some Neo and decided to take a path of real life murder.

Does that version have a radical Islam gunning down Americans? Probably not, which is why they never played it. Why the hell would they release Neo there anyway?

 

[oliverclaude]

They just needed a hobby other than shooting guns, and plotting mass attacks at the tender age of 8.

In the long term, pop-cultural trash, which already replaced religion together with God in the western world, can and will indeed solve this problem. Spending money on partying, sex, legal & illegal drugs and all sorts of useless commerce along the lines of video games is the strongest tool of control, next to mass media manipulation. Yet, there will always be violent, cruel and primitive resistance against this so called liberal concept of world order. It's inevitable.

 

[MySoberCompanion]

There are 330 million people in this country - in an area more than 2.5x larger than all of Europe. A country with 38% of the population representing a minority population. The crime in a nation with this many people, this size, this productive, with these racial / cultural / religious dynamics is ASTOUNDINGLY low. Comparing it to Luxembourg or whatever else might fit your argument is asinine.

Just a couple of thoughts:

Europe has 2x more people density than USA.
We love so much that we had 2 WW in our borders.
Talking about cultural/religious diversity, Europe has a very far larger Muslim community than USA and actually more first generation immigrants.

So, I wouldn't read the data as astoundingly low.

 

[Lee Gray]

These people are the scum of the earth and pathetic, I was actually shocked to see it was a Muslim this time, wont be long till we know the facts and motives.

 

[Craig]

Eh in the end, the saddest part of events like this are politicians using it as ammunition for their own agenda.

Maybe the second saddest?

With the dead being just a little bit sadder?

 

[Pasky]

Maybe the second saddest?

With the dead being just a little bit sadder?

Ya sorry, I didn't mean that. Of course the saddest part is a loss of innocent life. Pretty stupid thing for me to say, I guess I meant the aftermath of this.

 

[smokehouse]

LOL @ your tired old arguments. They simply do not hold up against the fact that your country has far, far more gun deaths per capita than any other civilised country.

If those guns used in San Bernadino had been sufficiently hard to come by, no one would have died.

You are doing the very thing that so many do when discussing mass-murders/shootings/whatever. You are moving from facts to opinions.

Need I remind you that the two most deadly public mass shooting to occur in the past 5-10+ years did NOT happen on US soil and were done in countries where firearms were heavily regulated? This isn't my opinion...this is a fact:

77 Dead:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik

130 dead:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks#Casualties

In the end, no feel-good firearm law prevented them from happening.

Every time this comes up, I mention that banning firearms isn't the solution. When I do this, so many of you resort to petty insults calling me some hick-shit "gun hugger" or something close to. So many of you are missing my point here...which is this:

What US citizens are crying for is even more erosion of this:

http://www.billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/bill-of-rights/

For decades now, our fuck-wit politicians have been passing an ocean of shady, technically illegal laws to circumvent the Bill of Rights. This happens when some horrible even happens and people want "something done". This doesn't simply involve firearms, it involves many of our constitutionally protected rights.

Every time this comes up, I try to take the focus off of firearms. Not because I'm protecting or defending them because that's not even close to my point. My point is Americans and the Bill of Rights...which absolutely needs to be defended. The cold-hard truth is...we cannot legislate our way out of crazy people being crazy...no country can. All that happens is that they pass more laws removing even more rights of the people in some pointless attempt to curb psychopaths killing other people. law abiding citizens get their civil rights eroded even more, crazy people gonna crazy. Things continue but we lose a small piece every time.

I'm not arguing for banning guns. I'm saying that people against gun control like to point at mental health as an answer, while simultaneously cutting funding for services and making mental and normal health care harder to get than a firearm.

I'll gladly admit that the US political system is completely out of control. They do one thing with the R hand, then do the opposite with the L. The cut massive amounts of social funding for the mentally ill, then try to pass some stupid law limiting firearm magazines to 10 rounds as some so of "prevention act" saying it will save lives.

The entire system is out of control...

We live in a time where so many think things like insanity and human nature can be controlled by laws...and the hard truth is, it simply cannot. It can be slightly curbed at best, but often the social cost is extremely high for tiny gains (again, if there is any change at all).

Look at illegal drugs for example. The fact is, people are going to use them no matter what. When one tragic event or another happens, people demand "action" and when the government does, it's disastrous. Want an example...here's one for some light reading:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Len_Bias

http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/len-bias-two-decades-of-destruction/

Cliff notes, big name, up-and-coming NBA star dies from a cocaine overdose. People demand action, government goes on a law making rampage that has effected millions of people, wrecking and costing lives, costing the tax payers millions (if not billions)...in the end, you can still get cocaine anywhere in the US. Mandatory minimum laws put countless people behind bars, the drug "wars" became even more bloody, and as a nation, we are still paying for all of this...and nothing changed.

Time and time and time again...this shit doesn't work, it just makes things worse and the cost to us as a nation is sky high.

I do not have an answer to any of this, but I do not think anyone does. Nothing we have ever done has ever impacted a thing...besides removing even more rights of people who have nothing to do with the problem in the first place.

 

[DNSDies]

Yeah because gun violence is a thing in Britain

Funny you should say that:
The levels spiked after the 96 ban, then settled recently back to the same 1996 levels.
Britain disarmed their public and the net result is nil.

 

[smokehouse]

...and you gotta love shit like this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-is-the-second-today-and-the-355th-this-year/

I log on to FB and keep seeing "we're having an epidemic of mass shootings!!!!"

So...if the data doesn't help you out...I guess we just manipulate it so it does. Not enough "mass" shootings to help your cause? Chang the definition. BOOM 355 mass shootings. Amazing.

Did 1 person out of 300,000,000+ die from a firearm that day? Call it a mass shooting...amazing!!!

 

[FilthyRear]

TL;DR = Gov't sucks donkey balls and does nothing, don't limit firearms just make the process to get them more involved, I don't want refugees, WWIII is inevitable in our lifetime.

Spoiler:

Our government will do nothing to get to the root problem of why so many people have now taken it upon themselves to walk into buildings and just start murdering people. They will bicker and fight to yet another stalemate and get nothing accomplished. They will then be re-elected and remain in power.

Our government will do nothing to get to the root problem of why religious zealots have now taken it upon themselves to flood the streets of other countries killing those who don't believe what they believe. they will bicker and fight to yet another stalemate and get nothing accomplished. They will then be re-elected and remain in power.

Our government is useless. They do nothing to keep it's citizens secure and safe in their own homes. They find its better to hand out tax credits and bailouts, and bicker and fight over what to do about guns because they're afraid of "upsetting" the gun lobby. I want guns in the hands of responsible citizens. EVERYONE that wants to buy a gun, regardless of state or where they buy their gun (gun show or store), should be subject to a psychological examination and detailed criminal background check. Don't limit firearms, just make the process to procure them legally a lengthy one. This should force any red flags in someone's background to come up, and a decision can then be made if they can be trusted to be responsible to own a firearm.

I want my police to not be a death-squad against minorities. However, old habits are tough to break. Many of the "problem" cops have been on the force for years, and most likely have come from a place of bigotry and prejudice long before they joined the force. Maybe this has to do with training, maybe it has to do with just how they perceive other ethnicities, maybe its the leadership. Chicago is the perfect example: That cop had a lot of complaints against him which got "pushed under the rug", they sat on the dashcam video for 13 months, yet the mayor - who was conveniently up for re-election that year, was relatively quiet about it. He then fired the chief of police, because that would take much of the heat off of him. Ol' Rahm should have stepped down himself - stepping down would have done a world of good. Yet, nothing more will get done, people will still die by the hands of cops, and the world will keep on spinning.

I'm very far to the left, yet I don't want refugees in this country. This is not a human rights issue anymore, this is turning into a security issue. We shouldnt be taking any refugees, especially when THIS is the state of things in this country. Many of these people are fleeing persecution, yet coming into this country will just invite MORE of it.

I've always said that it will just take one terrorism attack post-9/11 to start the inevitable witchhunt of mooslims and ignite a race/holy war.

I'm out of steam on this.

 

[norton9478]

[

...and you gotta love shit like this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-is-the-second-today-and-the-355th-this-year/

I log on to FB and keep seeing "we're having an epidemic of mass shootings!!!!"

So...if the data doesn't help you out...I guess we just manipulate it so it does. Not enough "mass" shootings to help your cause? Chang the definition. BOOM 355 mass shootings. Amazing.

Did 1 person out of 300,000,000+ die from a firearm that day? Call it a mass shooting...amazing!!!

I would say that 4 people injured or killed in a single event should be considered a mass shooting.

I think y'all will see this portrayed tomorrow as a disgruntled ex-employee who just "happens" to be a devout Muslim that has gone to Saudi Arabia in the past year that shot up the county facility without any religious motivation. It'll be portrayed as work place violence executed by the suspect with his wife and brother. nothing to see here, nothing to talk about, and if you do, you're probably part of the uninformed politically incorrect masses that had a preconceived racial/religious bias. Shame on you for thinking about anything except this needing to be about gun control.

We should just call it what it is:
Right Wing Extremism.

 

[DNSDies]

Oh Norton. Always taking the high road.
You're like the son Obama never had.

Gang Violence =/= Mass Shooting

also:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/02/san-bernadino-mass-shooting/

JESUS CHRIST. This was preventable.

A man who has been working in the area said he noticed a half-dozen Middle Eastern men in the area in recent weeks, but decided not to report anything since he did not wish to racially profile those people.

“We sat around lunch thinking, ‘What war they doing around the neighborhood?’” he said. “We’d see them leave where they’re raiding the apartment.”

This was planned.

Fox News reports that the suspects’ apartment was a “bomb-making factory,” with improvised explosive devices (IED) and remote-controlled cars for delivering explosives to their targets.

Also, I just now found out this was a Regional Center for DD Adults, and not a school.

 

[greedostick]

You are doing the very thing that so many do when discussing mass-murders/shootings/whatever. You are moving from facts to opinions.

Need I remind you that the two most deadly public mass shooting to occur in the past 5-10+ years did NOT happen on US soil and were done in countries where firearms were heavily regulated? This isn't my opinion...this is a fact:

77 Dead:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik

130 dead:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks#Casualties

In the end, no feel-good firearm law prevented them from happening.

Every time this comes up, I mention that banning firearms isn't the solution. When I do this, so many of you resort to petty insults calling me some hick-shit "gun hugger" or something close to. So many of you are missing my point here...which is this:

What US citizens are crying for is even more erosion of this:

http://www.billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/bill-of-rights/

For decades now, our fuck-wit politicians have been passing an ocean of shady, technically illegal laws to circumvent the Bill of Rights. This happens when some horrible even happens and people want "something done". This doesn't simply involve firearms, it involves many of our constitutionally protected rights.

Every time this comes up, I try to take the focus off of firearms. Not because I'm protecting or defending them because that's not even close to my point. My point is Americans and the Bill of Rights...which absolutely needs to be defended. The cold-hard truth is...we cannot legislate our way out of crazy people being crazy...no country can. All that happens is that they pass more laws removing even more rights of the people in some pointless attempt to curb psychopaths killing other people. law abiding citizens get their civil rights eroded even more, crazy people gonna crazy. Things continue but we lose a small piece every time.



I'll gladly admit that the US political system is completely out of control. They do one thing with the R hand, then do the opposite with the L. The cut massive amounts of social funding for the mentally ill, then try to pass some stupid law limiting firearm magazines to 10 rounds as some so of "prevention act" saying it will save lives.

The entire system is out of control...

We live in a time where so many think things like insanity and human nature can be controlled by laws...and the hard truth is, it simply cannot. It can be slightly curbed at best, but often the social cost is extremely high for tiny gains (again, if there is any change at all).

Look at illegal drugs for example. The fact is, people are going to use them no matter what. When one tragic event or another happens, people demand "action" and when the government does, it's disastrous. Want an example...here's one for some light reading:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Len_Bias

http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/len-bias-two-decades-of-destruction/

Cliff notes, big name, up-and-coming NBA star dies from a cocaine overdose. People demand action, government goes on a law making rampage that has effected millions of people, wrecking and costing lives, costing the tax payers millions (if not billions)...in the end, you can still get cocaine anywhere in the US. Mandatory minimum laws put countless people behind bars, the drug "wars" became even more bloody, and as a nation, we are still paying for all of this...and nothing changed.

Time and time and time again...this shit doesn't work, it just makes things worse and the cost to us as a nation is sky high.

I do not have an answer to any of this, but I do not think anyone does. Nothing we have ever done has ever impacted a thing...besides removing even more rights of people who have nothing to do with the problem in the first place.

Smokehouse, you're my new favorite member.

Also, slightly irrelevant, I want to mention one thing that surprised my.

I was talking with a friend on fb a few weeks back, who use to be in the airforce, and he mentioned he receives emails all the time that isis compromised government computers, and stole thousands of addresses and phone numbers of active and retired military personnel. I confirmed this by asking a lot of fellas at work in various branches of the military. Learned there's a isis military hit list on Texas.

 

[smokehouse]

I would say that 4 people injured or killed in a single event should be considered a mass shooting.

Mass:

2.
the majority of.
"the great mass of the population had little interest in the project"
synonyms: majority, greater part/number, best/better part, major part, bulk, main body, lion's share; most
"the mass of our students are licensed drivers"
adjective

1.
relating to, done by, or affecting large numbers of people or things.
"the movie has mass appeal"

4:300,000,000 is not, in any way, shape, or form..."mass" (let alone the fact that the article is calling a 1 person shooting, "mass"). If that's your definition...great. I feel pretty safe saying that if I had 300 million marbles in a hue bin and I puled out even 100...that no one would call that a "mass" amount of the whole.

We should just call it what it is:
Right Wing Extremism.

HUH?

So...white washing a terrorist act in the media is "right wing extremism"? Since when does the right wing control anything in the media?

I would simply call it our media and government not calling a spade a spade. This has zip to do with right or left wing...

 

[smokehouse]

Smokehouse, you're my new favorite member.

Also, slightly irrelevant, I want to mention one thing that surprised my.

I was talking with a friend on fb a few weeks back, who use to be in the airforce, and he mentioned he receives emails all the time that isis compromised government computers, and stole thousands of addresses and phone numbers of active and retired military personnel. I confirmed this by asking a lot of fellas at work in various branches of the military. Learned there's a isis military hit list on Texas.

Yeah...and I'm one of them. I got my letter in the mail Sat. Apparently, my military records have been compromised. Wonderful.

 

[cat]

I also like the points that smokehouse raise's, i think that too much control is a bad thing and knee jerk laws only compound the problem, the patriot act is a good example with law abiding people's civil liberties compromised.

 

[FilthyRear]

Yeah...and I'm one of them. I got my letter in the mail Sat. Apparently, my military records have been compromised. Wonderful.

Now's the perfect time to start full embracing it and start wearing women's clothing... They'd never be looking for a woman.

Spoiler:

For realz, tho, I respect you. Just jokes.

 

[smokehouse]

Now's the perfect time to start full embracing it and start wearing women's clothing... They'd never be looking for a woman.

Spoiler:

For realz, tho, I respect you. Just jokes.

Always love between you and I...I have pretty thick skin concerning that one. You should hear my wife bust my chops about it. This morning she mentioned that she wondered if we were going to go through menopause together figuring we have our periods at the same time...LOL...

 

[evil wasabi]

LOL @ your tired old arguments. They simply do not hold up against the fact that your country has far, far more gun deaths per capita than any other civilised country.

If those guns used in San Bernadino had been sufficiently hard to come by, no one would have died.

I always laugh when the outsider tries to chime in on what America does wrong.

 

[norton9478]

Mass:

2.
the majority of.
"the great mass of the population had little interest in the project"
synonyms: majority, greater part/number, best/better part, major part, bulk, main body, lion's share; most
"the mass of our students are licensed drivers"
adjective

1.
relating to, done by, or affecting large numbers of people or things.
"the movie has mass appeal"

4:300,000,000 is not, in any way, shape, or form..."mass" (let alone the fact that the article is calling a 1 person shooting, "mass"). If that's your definition...great. I feel pretty safe saying that if I had 300 million marbles in a hue bin and I puled out even 100...that no one would call that a "mass" amount of the whole.

Since you don't like the nomenclature (for whatever reason), what would you call it?

HUH?..

Islamic Radicals are Right Wingers.
-Simple as that.

If you ask me it sounds like these shooters were a bunch of people clinging to their guns and religion.

 

[ki_atsushi]

Islamic Radicals are Right Wingers.
-Simple as that.

If you ask me it sounds like these shooters were a bunch of people clinging to their guns and religion.

Right wingers that overwhelmingly vote Democrat. Ok.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/guess-who-u-s-muslims-are-voting-for/

 

[Marek]

Ya sorry, I didn't mean that. Of course the saddest part is a loss of innocent life. Pretty stupid thing for me to say, I guess I meant the aftermath of this.

I still understood what you meant. Politicians using this incident in a detached way to further some bullshit agenda is a true insult to those who died, and in a way makes their deaths even worse.

Right wingers that overwhelmingly vote Democrat. Ok.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/guess-who-u-s-muslims-are-voting-for/

Well of course they'd vote for the party that is more tolerant of their existence. Yeah Im sure they watch fox news and think "Hey! These people really care about us!"

Also, look at Europe, Muslims there overwhelmingly vote for the most socialist party thats running for whatever/wherever, and are frequently on the dole.

 

[Marek]

Since when does the right wing control anything in the media?

This has got to be a joke.

Have you even watched CNN lately? Shit is foxnews lite.

 

[norton9478]

http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/guess-who-u-s-muslims-are-voting-for/

If you believe an ethically challenged pollster who is taking money from World Net Daily.

Since you don't like the nomenclature (for whatever reason), what would you call it?




Islamic Radicals are Right Wingers.
-Simple as that.

If you ask me it sounds like these shooters were a bunch of people clinging to their guns and religion.

Actually, I should revise that.
Islamic Radicals are not "Right Wingers", They are "Right Wing Conservatives".