New to the fighters. Can someone take a newbie under his wing?

ManciGames

n00b
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Okay, I've had my Neo for about a year now and have just started getting into the fighting games in a big way.

Do you guys actually use all of these crazy moves? It seems like most of them take too long to pull off, but the computer is always using them.

Is there a way to use this stuff? Do I even need to? I'm tired of seeing my power bars maxed at 3, and I have no idea what to do with them.

Can anyone take a newbie under his wing and explain this stuff to me? I've tried FAQS, but most are written like I already know what these things are and how to use them. And the manuals are good for a laugh, but not for real direction...
 

racecar

Samurai Shodown Swordsmith
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..what game are you playing?? have to look @ the movelist??
 

TimeKillr

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Well, it's not too hard.

There are a few concepts to understand in 2D fighters (3D is a whole different ballgame, unless it's a pseudo-3D fighter ie the SFEX series).

The first and foremost to learn and master is how hits affect your opponent. I'm not talking about damage, but more about what happens then your hits land, what condition your opponent was in, etc. This will help you master the flow of the game, and how you can actually make up your own combos as you go along, which is part of the fun of fighting games.

Usually, what happens is one of the two following situations:
1- Your hit lands or
2- Your hit is blocked.

If your hit lands, your opponent gets into a state called hitstun. Hitstun is basically a small window where the character is "stunned" by the hit and is unable to act. This is the basis of combos: chaining hits together through hitstun. Most games allow for cancelling, which is the act of cancelling your attack's animation by another attack to exploit the hitstun state. In most KOF games, for example, you can cancel a normal standing strong attack (B or D button) by performing a command normal attack (ie usually forward + weak punch or kick). This forms a basic 2-hit combo. You can also usually cancel the strong attack by a special attack. You can also sometimes (this really depends on your character) cancel that same original strong attack with a super move. This is how you usually land your supers (Desperation Move or DM and Super Desperation Move, SDM). Other situations are possible, but usually shooting supers out of the blue is generally a bad idea, unless you know for certain that it will actually hit.

If your hit is blocked, well, you just have to handle it. In most fighting engines you can still do your combos on blocking opponents, although you should practice stopping before launching off any special or super move if your opponent is blocking your combo, as they usually have rather large windows at the end that leave you completely vulnerable.

What I would recommend is hitting up your favorite game's practice mode, pick a SINGLE character you would like to learn (most people around here can help you out with which character might be the easiest to start with), learn the timing of his/her attacks, practice your moves/supers and find ways to combo them. It's really important to pick a character and stick with it; you can then learn all the basics. When you'll try another character after mastering the basics you can then easily switch characters, learn their moves and be able to play them with relative ease.

It's not that hard, and you should get the hang of it relatively quickly. Remember that those long motion supers should take you less than a second to perform, so learn to do them quickly.
 

ManciGames

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TimeKillr said:
<snip>

It's not that hard, and you should get the hang of it relatively quickly. Remember that those long motion supers should take you less than a second to perform, so learn to do them quickly.

Thanks man. This is good stuff. See, part of my confusion is the terminology. I hear "cancel", and I'm thinking that it is a defensive term. I.E. "I canceled your atttack".

I think part of the problem is that I have jumped straight into SVC Chaos and KOF 2003, rather than working my way through the "chronology of fighting games". So, a lot of what you guys learned one game at a time, I'm trying to learn all at once. I was pretty good at SFII back in the day, but that was a pretty simple game by today's standards.

So, "cancel" is an offensive term. Good to know.
 

ManciGames

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Holy sh*t. I've been looking over the gameplay glossary... This remind me of how I played Magic for a while, got out of it, then got back in, and had to learn all of the new rules and techniques that had been introduced while I had been out.

Ah well...back to the reading.
 

alec

Hardcore Neoholic
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All this stuff is important to know to get skillful at these games. I hope you have some friends that are really good or at least 1 friend learning them with you though. You really can't get good without good competition. If you just fight your friends with your newly honed skills they will get burnt out on losing to you every single round, and get mad, call you names, threaten to murder you and generally not have fun. This happened with my friends a few years ago. I pretty much had to stop playing fighters for a year to dumb my skills down to their level. Now we have some pretty good matches LOL!

Do learn to do those DM commands, also do learn the Bread and Butter Combos for the characters you want to use or as many as you can. To do something serious, learn how to combo into your DM moves, these combos can scare people sometimes and take alot of practice to be able to do consitantly. Also, remember that normal moves are tons easier to use than specials and should make up the majority of your attacks with a few exceptions.

In his win quote in third stike, Ryu says something like, "Range, Speed, Priority, learn this if you want to stand a chance." IMO this is the best win quote in any fighting game ever because it is 100% true and applies to all games and characters. If you want to learn what moves have high priorities enter training mode and have 1p do one move and 2p do an other the move that connects has a higher priority than the move that the other characters move which he got hit out of.

Annother very important strategy to use in fighting games is called talking shit. Don't let your opponent know that you actually have no confidence in winning and then fuck them up for real. Some of the best competitors are also some of the best shit talkers. This can backfire though if you lose because you'll not only lose the match but also your pride as well as the right to talk shit. Only talk shit to your friends or people your close with. Getting shot over a video game is not worth it.

Good luck in your matches and train hard.
 

TimeKillr

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ManciGames said:
Thanks man. This is good stuff. See, part of my confusion is the terminology. I hear "cancel", and I'm thinking that it is a defensive term. I.E. "I canceled your atttack".

I think part of the problem is that I have jumped straight into SVC Chaos and KOF 2003, rather than working my way through the "chronology of fighting games". So, a lot of what you guys learned one game at a time, I'm trying to learn all at once. I was pretty good at SFII back in the day, but that was a pretty simple game by today's standards.

So, "cancel" is an offensive term. Good to know.

SVC is one of the worst games to start on. :)

A great game to start on that has all the basics covered is Street Fighter 3: Third Strike, simply because a LOT has been written about it's systems and very detailed information can be found within a few books (such as the SF Anniversary Collection game guide, strangely).
 

CarlosZ

Mickey's Coach
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yea chaos is pretty bad, you should try a kof because there are alot of techniques you could learn from these games that can be passed onto other ones as well. Counters, canceling, blah blah blah
 

firewolf

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thank the gods for this thread. this is exactly what i needed. i am am also a newb at fighting games. now i just need to read the guide.
 

ManciGames

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CarlosZ said:
yea chaos is pretty bad, you should try a kof because there are alot of techniques you could learn from these games that can be passed onto other ones as well. Counters, canceling, blah blah blah

Thanks for all of the hints everyone...

Okay, a couple of questions:

1) Is SVC a "bad game", or is it just "tough to learn"?

2) I've got KOF 2003. Good enough to start with, or should I really hunt down SF3: Third Strike?

3) Which version of Third Strike is the best? DC, PS2, XBOX?
 

TimeKillr

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ManciGames said:
1) Is SVC a "bad game", or is it just "tough to learn"?

It's both, actually. :)

ManciGames said:
2) I've got KOF 2003. Good enough to start with, or should I really hunt down SF3: Third Strike?

It's not bad to start with, but if you want to play the earlier KOFs it's really not your best bet since the controls are much more refined in 2k3 (the earlier ones require much more precise control).

ManciGames said:
3) Which version of Third Strike is the best? DC, PS2, XBOX?

Never DC, it's a bad port of the second arcade version.

PS2 or Xbox are both excellent.
 

CarlosZ

Mickey's Coach
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yea lol its tough to learn cuz its so bad. Nah the game itself is kinda :oh_no: because they butchered it.
 

El Capitan

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There is some good advice here.

Mine would be - start at the start. If you take up 3rd strike there are so many techniques you'll be lost - that really is the deep end.

I would say start on KoF94 or SSF2T to get some basics and then work up from there.

best of luck.
 

ManciGames

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El Capitan said:
There is some good advice here.

Mine would be - start at the start. If you take up 3rd strike there are so many techniques you'll be lost - that really is the deep end.

I would say start on KoF94 or SSF2T to get some basics and then work up from there.

best of luck.

I'll have to pick up KoF 94. SSF2T is sort of included on the anniversary disc I have for XBOX.

Speaking of that, I've got a question: Is it just me, or is the AI in SSF2T just plain relentless when compared to SFIII: Third Strike? I mean, I set the difficulty on SSF2 all the way down to "easiest", and I'm still getting my ass handed to me in the first round.

But in TS, I come pretty close to getting all the way through with no continues with the same characters (Chun Li and Ryu) and set on the medium setting.

It seems like four hits will take me out in SSF2, but I can absorb a ton more in TS. Not only that, but the AI in SSF2 seems to be based on MY inputs. For example, if I try a jump attack, I might as well be entering "dragon punch" for my adversary. They jumpt at the exact same time I do almost every time. This doesn't seem to happen in TS.
 

alec

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Capcom made a consious decision to make the AI way easier from Alpha 2 onward. SNK did the same a bit later. If you keep jumping in and getting dragon punched then you should stop jumping in so much. If the CPU is whupping your ass, imagine what a real player would do. Instead of jumping in randomly, hold your ground and play a poke game, advance by walking, or jump straight up. I'm always surprised how many people forget you can jump straight up in these games. Let your opponent walk forward and land on them with a MK HK HP or whatever.

If you want street fighter tips, I would recommend visiting www.shoryuken.com over asking for help here. They don't know jack about KOF though.

note: its been a minutes since I've visited SRK, there forums are cool from what I remember a few years ago, but things change.
 

ManciGames

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alec said:
Instead of jumping in randomly, hold your ground and play a poke game, advance by walking, or jump straight up.

Ya know, I started doing that and seeing that it was fairly effective, but from what I'm reading "poking" is on the same level as "turtling," and I was trying not to use either of those techniques.

So, the question is, are techniques like those *really* frowned upon, or are they just frowned upon by those who can't defeat players who use them?
 

alec

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poking is not the same as turtling. poking is using fast high priority attacks to break through someones defence, hopefully opening up a combo opportunity. turtling is ducking with a low block on ground attacks waiting for the opponent to do a random jump in and then flash kicking.personally I really don't frown on any techniques except techs that lose like random jump ins. If your having trouble winning, frown upon the technique your using and devise a new one that you can smile about. :)

have fun with these games
 

alec

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btw if your opponent is turtling use a move that can only be blocked high like kyo or iori's foward LK. Or in street fighter Kens forward MK or Ryus foward LP. Get that turtle out of its shell. mix these up with low attacks though so that they still have to block low. Thats what poking is.
 

ManciGames

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Well, I have come upon a couple of things that have helped me out big time, and I thought I would share with the other newbie watching this thread (and all newbies, or "scrubs", for generations to come):

1) Get one of the Prima or Bradygames guides for the game you are "training" on. I picked up the Bradygames guide for Street Fighter Anniversary as well as the guide for SVC Chaos.

In addition to getting detailed move lists and combo chains for each character, the guides have done a good job of explaining cancels, etc. with both a text explanation and an associated picture to show what they are talking about. The pictures help a TON.

2) Buy an arcade stick. I picked up the Nubytech SFII Anniversary stick and it is just amazing. Compatible with PS2 and XBOX and works like a dream on any stick based game.

There you have it...
 

SavagePencil

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Be careful with some of those guides. The SVC: Chaos one was nice (I was totally surprised I knew the writer), but in contrast, the Capcom Vs. SNK 2 book was awful. No pictures, and no real strategy.
 

alec

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If you want a really good strategy guide, the best one I've ever read was the Super Street Fighter II stategy guide from GamePro. It was written by Graham Wolfe, a real bay area Street Fighter champion. It has tons of great strats and combos as well as interview with all the best street fighter players of that time. I fought Graham Wolfe in CVS2 once, he whopped my ass. After I went home, I looked at the cover of that srat guide and realized he was the one who wrote it.

As far as Joysticks go, I just got a Hori Fighting Stick SS for Sega Saturn and I couldn't be happier with it. Not many other sticks are built with the same quality as that one. I also have 2 Mas sticks set up for Dreamcast play. They are awsome, but they are huge. I love them, but at the moment I'm having more fun with the Hori stick.

A funny fact, the packaging box for the hori stick I just got is next to my mas stick, and the Mas stick is bigger than the box the hori came in.
 
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