Neo Diagnostics ROMs

ack

B. Jenet's Firstmate
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Is there any work around to get it to work on AES like pull it from the cart inserted, kinda like how the Unibios does?

I'm still a bit light on neo geo graphics but reading over the dev wiki and looking at open bios I think its likely unibios/openbios are using some trickery to get the bars on aes. They can use a single solid color tile (0x00) to render the bars by using the hblank/timer interrupt to change palettes colors multiple times mid frame. I'm not sure at this point if there was a specific reason smkdan didn't go that route.

There should be a somewhat simple workaround though. I assume you are using a diag cart, it should be possible to burn the sfix rom as the carts s1 rom, then I can give you a bios version that enables the bars test on aes. I dont have a working aes to test with, but this works in mame.
 

Mehunglo

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I have a couple of boards that I've been working on that play games fine, but have no game audio. They both have sound in hardware test without game, but not with game inserted.

The 2 slot I had in my dedicated cab, was working fine, turned it on one day, no audio. No battery leakage but still removed battery, cleaned all slots, replaced/socketed Z80A, YM2610, YM3016. Neo diagnostics audio test gives this error.
2-slot.png

The 4 slot, removed battery, cleaned slots, socketed Z80A. Neo diagnostics audio test gives this error, which is jumbled. 4-slot.png

I'm stuck here.
 

ack

B. Jenet's Firstmate
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I assume you are using the diag m1 cart and have verified its working as expected on a know working board?

On the 4 slot pic. Are graphics messed up in the diag bios if you don't do the Z80 tests?
 

Mehunglo

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I verified cart on working board. The jumbled letters are only with the audio part of the diagnostics. The hardware part is normal.
 

ack

B. Jenet's Firstmate
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The graphics issue to me looks like fix data might have stuck data bits. If its happening on all slots it might be an issue with the connection between the boards or one of the chips that handles switching between the slots on the slot board.

On your 2 slot board, the actual being 01, I think would be an indication the diag m1 is not running right. 01 would have been the last thing the sm1 rom sent to the 68k to indicate it was ready for the switch to the diag m1. So perhaps you have an issue with the data/address path to the m1 on the cart that causing it to crash/not function.

I would also suggest clearing your backup ram as it can sometime fix audio not working.
 

Mehunglo

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On the 4 slot I used an older diag. and no jumbled graphics and was able to see this error.
4sloterror.png.
This is my cart.
Diagcart.pngdiagcartback.png.
Tried it in 2 of the 4 slots, same error. Out of curiosity I removed the M1 eprom and still got the same error. Has my M1 been bad all this time? I've cleared the backup ram countless times hoping it would suddenly work. No such luck.
 
Last edited:

ack

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Its possible its bad or there is a connectivity issue between the z80 and m1 diag.
 

pnauts

Kuroko's Training Dummy
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I have a couple of boards that I've been working on that play games fine, but have no game audio. They both have sound in hardware test without game, but not with game inserted.

The 2 slot I had in my dedicated cab, was working fine, turned it on one day, no audio. No battery leakage but still removed battery, cleaned all slots, replaced/socketed Z80A, YM2610, YM3016. Neo diagnostics audio test gives this error.
View attachment 56633

I'm stuck here.

It was useless to change the YM3016.
You can have a Z80 successful test even without YM2610.
Is it a MV2F slot or MV2-01 ?
You problem can come from a defective SM1 Rom, RAM BR6116 (quite rare), NEO-D0, PRO-B0 for 1st gen slot (quite rare I think) or NEO-C1 if 2 slot from 2nd gen.
The NEO-257 can also have some trouble on the Sound Datas bus (SD 0..7)
 

Xian Xi

JammaNationX,
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When using the Diagnostic cart in a multislot, make sure you follow the instructions on the Diagnostic bios page as multis lots require you to press and hold a direction to test a certain slot.

Also, if you are using a Unibios 4.0, test audio only from slot 1 if using only 1 cart.
 

Mehunglo

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It was useless to change the YM3016.
You can have a Z80 successful test even without YM2610.
Is it a MV2F slot or MV2-01 ?
You problem can come from a defective SM1 Rom, RAM BR6116 (quite rare), NEO-D0, PRO-B0 for 1st gen slot (quite rare I think) or NEO-C1 if 2 slot from 2nd gen.
The NEO-257 can also have some trouble on the Sound Datas bus (SD 0..7)

It's a MV2F. I tried something that's not usually recommended, but I piggybacked the 3016 and got sound. I also tried it on the 4 slot(didn't work), went back to the 2F, didn't get sound the second time. Still replaced it (I have several 3016's), still no in-game sound. I've kind of given up for now. Time disappears when I get into troubleshooting the boards.
 

Mehunglo

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When using the Diagnostic cart in a multislot, make sure you follow the instructions on the Diagnostic bios page as multis lots require you to press and hold a direction to test a certain slot.

Also, if you are using a Unibios 4.0, test audio only from slot 1 if using only 1 cart.

I followed the directions exactly. The games boot fine (all slots), no glitches, look perfect to me, except no in-game sound. I'm pretty sure I've spent more money buying parts and tools to fix these boards than they're worth. The smart thing would have been to sell the boards as-is and be done with it, guess I'm not that smart!
 

DCrosby

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So when I test my 4 Slot, and I use Slot 1, I hold down button D, and Let go of Start P1 and Select Game, I get a white screen and the following sound:
What is this, the solid color screen is described as an error of some sort, but also Slot 1 is the default, and it's supposed to work, the bios without the debug cart, and just the bios reports no errors.
The board seems to work, with the exception of the Sound section, which I re-capped, but is very scratchy....
This is the sound of the diagnostic cart...
 

Attachments

  • NeoGeoTest.zip
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ack

B. Jenet's Firstmate
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When the diag cart/m1 is active it will produce that sound, run its tests and play that sound again to indicate its completed without error. If you get beep codes its an indication either the diag cart/m1 or the sp1 detected some issue.

When you activate the diag cart it also makes the S1 rom on the cart take over for the SFIX rom thats on the motherboard. Those roms are responsible for fix layer graphics (fonts). So there is likely some issue accessing the S1 rom on that diag cart.
 

DCrosby

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When the diag cart/m1 is active it will produce that sound, run its tests and play that sound again to indicate its completed without error. If you get beep codes its an indication either the diag cart/m1 or the sp1 detected some issue.

When you activate the diag cart it also makes the S1 rom on the cart take over for the SFIX rom thats on the motherboard. Those roms are responsible for fix layer graphics (fonts). So there is likely some issue accessing the S1 rom on that diag cart.
Interesting, I see some flashes on the screen, if I don't have the cart in it, I don't get the sounds and a blue screen.

Here I did a recording of KOF95 and this is what it sounds like, it seems like some sounds, possibly music FM syth are fine, yet Digitally sampled sounds are really crackl-y (It gets better twoards the middle / end, and then the NeoGeo startup sound is crystal again... and so it the sound test off the stock bios... I don't know where to look, if I need to take this into a seperate thread please let me know.
 

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  • KOF-95.zip
    9.1 MB · Views: 2

ack

B. Jenet's Firstmate
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was it sounding like that before you did the cap kit?
 

DCrosby

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Yes, I thought it was because the caps were bad, and were unable to filter AC noise, but I should have known, that that wasn't it, as it was clear during Neo-Geo opening. The only thing that changed I would say is I have more volume now than I had before...
 

ack

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Does the sound issue only happen in slot 1?
Have you tested with other games?
Have you tried cleaning the cart edge and cart slot(s)?
 

DCrosby

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No I was able to get it to have those issues no matter what slot I used.
I have I generally test with a 161 in one, as I don't care if the board fries that cart, but I had at one point to test it loaded it up with PuzzeBobble, Sidekicks 11, KOF99, and Arero Fighters2, it depends on what the game is asking of the sound section, but generally certain types of synthetic sounds are messed up while others sound fine.
I have cleaned it with 99% isopropyl alcohol on a paper towel for the slot, and a cotton swab for the cart, or any cart that came to me and didn't work consistently. I also have borrowed another 4 slot MV4 that has a "Low" sound output, and needs a new cap set, and plays just not as loud. I also have a 2 Slot, that's also not mine, that has good audio volume, and doesn't suffer from this.

I tried to re-flow solder on the bottom legs of the z80, and did some overall inspection, I found 1 gouge that severed two traces that I fixed with Kynar Wire, and restored 2 of the 4 slots which had been bad when I got the board. So I'm not shy as to debugging and testing, I have an O-Scope and a Logic probe and I was able to confirm I have signal coming from Pin 4 of the 3016, but that just confirmed that the Yamaha Chip is working, but not what it's sending, just that it's sending data.

So now I guess I'm wondering how I can diagnose this, I was thinking I might be able to see some kind of noise on the O-Scope, and see if I can see where it intrudes but for that I'd need to know what chips / pins to test.
 

ack

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No I was able to get it to have those issues no matter what slot I used.
I have I generally test with a 161 in one, as I don't care if the board fries that cart, but I had at one point to test it loaded it up with PuzzeBobble, Sidekicks 11, KOF99, and Arero Fighters2, it depends on what the game is asking of the sound section, but generally certain types of synthetic sounds are messed up while others sound fine.
I have cleaned it with 99% isopropyl alcohol on a paper towel for the slot, and a cotton swab for the cart, or any cart that came to me and didn't work consistently. I also have borrowed another 4 slot MV4 that has a "Low" sound output, and needs a new cap set, and plays just not as loud. I also have a 2 Slot, that's also not mine, that has good audio volume, and doesn't suffer from this.

I tried to re-flow solder on the bottom legs of the z80, and did some overall inspection, I found 1 gouge that severed two traces that I fixed with Kynar Wire, and restored 2 of the 4 slots which had been bad when I got the board. So I'm not shy as to debugging and testing, I have an O-Scope and a Logic probe and I was able to confirm I have signal coming from Pin 4 of the 3016, but that just confirmed that the Yamaha Chip is working, but not what it's sending, just that it's sending data.

So now I guess I'm wondering how I can diagnose this, I was thinking I might be able to see some kind of noise on the O-Scope, and see if I can see where it intrudes but for that I'd need to know what chips / pins to test.

I haven't heard sounds like that from your kof wave file before, so I'm not really sure were the issue could be. I think the first thing I would do is see if it also happens on the 4 pin headphone header. Its always possible the scratchiness is being caused by the volume slider.
 

DCrosby

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I do, I plugged in the front panel, and a set of headphones and the same thing....
 

DCrosby

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I've been chatting with GadgetUK 164 and he seems to think it's the Yamaha 2610 Chip, I just today took another board, and re-capped that as it had VERY low sound, but no crackling, and it came back to life. So I doubt I messed up on the caps, as both boards were identical 4 Slot MVS4's But We'll see I'll try and update it with the solution in case others have the same issue, interesting that the Diagnostic didn't find any issues with it, that is IF it's the culprit. Maybe because static isn't an error? :)

I'd take the Yamaha from the working board, but that's a friends and I don't want to mess his up as well, and even if it worked I'd have to put it back. I'm going to wait and see how long it takes to get a replacement.
 

DCrosby

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FIXED: I got a badly beaten doner 1 slot, which had the YM2610 Chip on it, for cheap, and was able to remove it, and solder it onto my 4 Slot, and it sounds great, no more distortion.
Thank you Ack for helping me narrow down the issue.
 
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