KoF NeoWave discussion (review added)

[Takumaji]

Had a bit of vs-CPU fun tonight... when I first fought Geese a few days ago, I thought he would be quite strong but this impression wore off today after I managed to cheap him out with Iori and Kensou - back out to the corner behind you and start throwing projectiles, it's best to mix up A and C versions, then when Mr. H approaches, wait for his stupid move barrage to end and low-sweep him, repeat, dead.... Geese must be getting old, eh.

You just have to be careful not to get caught in one of his super-prio super-damage close attacks, so keep him away from you and you'll have no problem. I even caught him with Kensou's kick DM a couple of times. Heat-mode sweeps are helpful as well.

After you've hit him with two or three projectiles, he will start throwing out Repukkens like mad which do heavy tick damage, it's best to dodge them with vertical jumps and wait for him to close in since jumping at him is a bit risky.

Non-projectile charas require a bit of planning but it's not as hard as it may look at first. Basically, the same keepaway + sweeps tactic works here as well, you just have to be slightly more careful and find a good poking move for your chara to keep Geese at bay.

I was playing on 8 of course.

 

[Devil_Gans]

For me, i just spam ralf's hcf+D charging attack. It has unbelievable auto-guard properties and it blocks geese's ground attacks and hits him most of the time. I still play safe at the same time, avoiding his DP+C/A, which he loves to use as a cross-over. When i have 3 stocks, I will FC into his b,f+C and then SC into his qcf,hcb+AC SDM.

To me, Ralf is the most effective.

 

[Empyrian]

Hehe, just wait at the corner and wait for him! ;p

I was told, command grabs and slams can beat his ranbu and SDM although I had never tried that before... :X

Btw, since O.Yashiro's template is based on Goro, this means that Goro's Hcb, Fwd Kick (the running grab.) should be cancellable too.

Although I do wonder if it is comboable...

 

[LWK]

Taken from Tel's THE KING OF FIGHTERS NEOWAVE MOVELIST/GUIDE ver 1.6b:


" Here are some differences between the boss and selectable version of Geese:

- The playable version of Geese's far C is NOT cancelable and none of his (C) attacks have autoguard.

- Geese has no Free and Super Cancels in SC Mode.

- His special moves' damage is MUCH weaker. Pathetic, in fact.

- His Upper has no autoguard and less priority, but still ia fairly effective against jump-ins. It has pretty good vertical range and can hit an opponent who's higher than his fist.

- His Sliding Kick has slower recovery, and has no autoguard. It can combo from light attacks.

- The (A) Reppu Ken has a small hit area and will miss low hopping opponents even if opponent seems to be touching the top of the projectile. If it hits from outside his sweep distance, you can followup while opponent is still stunned: the Sliding Kick works well.

- The (C) Reppu Ken does far less damage, and has long startup time and no invincibility. It can still negate normal projectiles. It may be possible to followup after it hits in the corner. The projectile travels slower than the CPU's version.

- The (A) Hishou Nichirin Zan does 2 hits on a standing opponent, while the C version does one hit. The move is slower and you can't followup with the Sliding Kick after it hits.

- The Explosion Ball is slower, and does very little damage. It retains its ability to hit an opponent above Geese's fist level.

- The Deadly Rave is blockable. The old alternate Rising Storm command (hcb,hcb,df+P) will get you this instead. The move still retains its invincibility. For some reason, it's pretty hard to chain into this move: your timing has to be right or the Deadly Rave won't launch at all.

- The Rising Storm's command requires precise motioning or the Deadly Rave will launch instead. The move is a short-ranged throw. If it misses, there is no startup flash, but your gauge will still drain. It still juggles a hit opponent but the damage is downright pathetic for an SDM. "


So, Geese is playable but they took most of the boss cheese away.... by reading this, one doesn't get the impression of him being top tier, eh...

Thanks a bunch for explaining this!

 

[Fran]

why were you complaining about "selectable geese" if you didn't know he's different from the cpu version ?

 

[LWK]

why were you complaining about "selectable geese" if you didn't know he's different from the cpu version ?

Thats exactly why I complained. CPU version is over powered. If I had known he was weakened I wouldnt complain..

 

[JHendrix]

Just started to get back into playing KOF again (2k3 really), but I went ahead and ordered the import of Neowave. Hope to put some of the stuff I read in here to use when I get it.

 

[YO-YO-Boy]

did they change iori punch combo or somthing? i can do all of kyo punches but i can only get the 1st rep?!?

god this game is as stiff as 02! =(

 

[JHendrix]

Alright, I'm a wee bit bored at work and I realized I didn't post up my new impressions of the game yet.

I got to play against my friends on Sunday, but it was just a messing around kind of thing with no serious play since one of my friends loves KOF but doesn't get to play often, so we didn't want to be harsh against him.

This worked out great since it let me experiment a bit with different characters and modes, especially since my best guy (Kim) is still locked due to me not playing the single player yet.

Just defend seems pretty good but I don't like the other limitations of the groove, or I should say that I just really like Super Cancel mode, since it seems like they made cancels much easier to pull off than in other KOF’s. Combo timing seems stricter than 2k3, but that’s expected, 2k3 is so forgiving it’s made me lazy, especially with me not playing fighters for a few months before jumping into Neowave.

However while playing it’s become blatantly obvious that this was based off 2k2’s gameplay however as someone who’s put a ton of time into 2k2, you notice the differences almost immediately. My friend plays Billy, Athena, Yuri, and Mai in every KOF, and those characters can be really annoying in 2k2, however playing against hem in NW just showed how much they fixed things from 2k2 almost immediately. Seeing Billy’s f+A and being able to do something about it almost brought a tear to my eye.

I really think I need to get Kim unlocked to gauge how strict the combos and everything are for this game since I kind of use him as my benchmark for playing this stuff. Guess I’m going to have to find a way to quickly get through the unlocking process soon.

The only problem I see coming up is that KOF2k2/2k3 comes out for XBox tomorrow and I’ll probably end up throwing a ton of time into that since it has Live play, thus taking away from my Neowave time. We’ll see though, with our luck SNKP might turn that into a lag fest and I’ll be back in Neowave land unlocking Kim and Angel.

 

[Takumaji]

I've more or less stopped playing 2k2 since NW came out for PS2. Except for 2k1, I rarely play anything else these days, kof-wise. SC free cancels do it for me, as well as MAX2, the most-shunned mode of the three. Try it out with a grappler or one of the big charas (Chang, etc.) sometime, it's really nice.

After spending about a dozen or so hours in practice mode alone, I think I can safely say that NW's SC mode and 2k2 BC mode are equally effective. A Free Cancel eats a power stock, but since there's no scaling like in 2k2 where a BC-only combo does very little damage, this isn't much of a drawback, even more as there are some new cancel options which adds to the overall depth of the game.

Now, there seem to be more combo/setup options in 2k2 BC at first, but damage scaling makes most of those nifty BC combos useless compared to a normal jD -> sC -> f+A -> special b'n'b combo, that is as long as we rule out quick-BC cancels which are harder to pull off but can be used to land some monster combos + super-cancel. Thing is tho, many character only have one or maybe two three really hard-hitting quick-BCs and they're risky, chances are you fumble in the middle of your fabulous BC combo and get countered.

Yeah, it's all about practice, but I don't particularly enjoy practising 2k2 quick-BC combos... dunno why, some of them are nice and useful (Joe, Kensou, Tak, Andy, K', etc.), but others (Yama... ugh...) piss me off. Tedious to learn, risky to use.

In short, I'm happy that SNKP came up with this revised Free Cancel system, it may not be as demanding as 2k2 BC but it flows much better than 2k2.

 

[JHendrix]

Supercancel mode can get annoying.

Doing Yashiro's QCF+C, QCF+C xx QCFx2+P super combo, you know like his BnB stuff. I must have canceled the thing into his uppercut instead of the super like 5 times yesterday.

Really annoying since I have no probs doing it in 2k2. This happens with a bunch of other things too, I may have to move on and try another style. I think I may like the JD style a bit more anyway.

 

[Takumaji]

Yeah, some SC combos need very precise timing, but still, SC is the best mode of the three. Guard Break mode is quite nice, that is I really dig the universal qcf+CD wire juggle starter, but IMO NW's version of JD is more annoying than accidentally triggering free cancels. I sort of changed my mind about the addition of JD to the game, it was interesting at first but there definitely is abuse potential.

I had this problem you describe before, but after adjusting my input speed to NW it went away. NW is slightly slower than 2k2, so if your quick super-cancel comes out as a dp you're definitely too fast, reduce your speed by about 10% and you're set.

 

[Empyrian]

JD's Qcf CD seemed pretty useless.

You have to activate heat mode and do a super to actually deal some damage.

And you just used up 2 stocks.

 

[Rengoku]

JD's Qcf CD seemed pretty useless.

You have to activate heat mode and do a super to actually deal some damage.

And you just used up 2 stocks.

ok man try this with terry:

qcfCD (run a little if necessary) qcfE~C (press E a bit before C) qcbC

do you need 2 stocks?qcfCD is still useless?

 

[Takumaji]

JD's Qcf CD seemed pretty useless.

You have to activate heat mode and do a super to actually deal some damage.

And you just used up 2 stocks.

There are a lot of cool follow-ups to the qcf+CD wire attack, most dp's and projectiles will work, as well as many (S)DMs.

Sometimes gaining initiative with a well-placed wire is more worth than raw damage, even if you use it alone without any follow-ups. The cost of a stock is okay IMO, NW would've turned into juggle hell if it would be free to use.

 

[LWK]

Well, I played Neowave at my boy Juans pad. (Hes on this forum now)

The game just bores me to death, it lacks that KOF feel. I can't explain it. 98 and 2002 are so much better then this its ridiculous. I'd rather deal with Athena, Choi and Mai in 2002 then play this snore-fest.

I'm QUITE amazed this game has gotten so much praise. Its really a mediocre KOF over all. Theres no reason to play this when you got 2002, which just has a much cleaner play style. Plus no JD crud.

 

[Takumaji]

Well, I played Neowave at my boy Juans pad. (Hes on this forum now)

The game just bores me to death, it lacks that KOF feel. I can't explain it. 98 and 2002 are so much better then this its ridiculous. I'd rather deal with Athena, Choi and Mai in 2002 then play this snore-fest.

I'm QUITE amazed this game has gotten so much praise. Its really a mediocre KOF over all. Theres no reason to play this when you got 2002, which just has a much cleaner play style. Plus no JD crud.

Dunno man, I like it more than 2k2, it's simply more fun to me due to some more intuitive engine features.

Perhaps you should stop playing the game with a crappy pad and use a decent stick instead.

 

[Dark_Geese]

The best NW thread yet

I've search and search and search and I must say this is the best NW thread I've found period..

I cannot go back to 2k2 after playing this game thats just how I feel. The controls and everything else is easier to do

Guys Geese may seem meh but he's top tier in this game still even after being toned down from the boss incarnation. Ever watch the SBO3 vids? Whats the major team consist of?

Geese, Choi, Jhun...your top tiers and Saisyu, the last of the top tiers.

I use Geese exclusively, so I know how to combo Deadly Rave and many of those other things.

With Geese you can make people fear you easily.
And about O. Rugal, he is in this game as well(2k2 version), nerfed down to make him tournament eligible...I like that they are doing this...


Keep putting and adding your two cents of info about this game...

Geese though is best in SC Mode (Why? Bc he has access to three supers..ALWAYS USE FOR DR) Has some wicked GB setups that I use as well...

JD-ing is a plus and know that it DOES NOT give you back ANY HEALTH at all..
I love the learning curve JD gives in this game...

 

[SpaceMarine17]

I am really liking this game. It could be solely b/c it has Young Geese but I'd like to think that there is more to it than that heh. I wish I could add more to this discussion than basic Geese combos (i havent had too much time to sit and try out everything) and this lame question. But I cannot. (I'll hold off on the combos for ya)

How do you d othe Raising Storm in this game? Everytime I do it I either do a Deadly Rave or He does a Punch/Grab that always goes through my opponent. Is it a counter? if so then I must be off with the timing b/c I set the CPU to attack on Practice mode and try to time it w/ the CPU's attack.

Well thanks for the info, and keep playing.

-a.