I think i screwed up-IGS PGM DDP DOJ

tighecg

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I just recently acquired a PGM board and Dodonpachi DOJ. The cart was pretty scummy on the outside, so I decided to clean it up. When I took it apart I thought 'll just replace these caps in here, no big deal'. Well, it must be a big deal because it is not working now. It worked flawlessly before, now all the sprites are screwed up. The text and the backgrounds seem to be OK, but everything else is a scrambled block of crap. Is there a way to fix this, or am I hosed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsM3OA7XnCQ

Sorry for the shitty phone vid, I hope it gets the point across.
 

ChuChu Flamingo

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First things first, I would take a picture of the board all sides to show your soldering. Did you try putting the old capacitors back in?

Additionally when reassembling the cartridge you didn't put it in backwards right? On MVS it doesn't matter if you flip the boards inside the case, but on PGM I've read it is not the case. I think 5v and ground get switched around.

Hopefully you didn't do some damage via ESD. Maybe you'll get lucky and the capacitors are not soldered in the best or you made a bridge somewhere you shouldn't have.

Best of luck.
 
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tighecg

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Thanks Chu

Unfortunately, I did not save the old caps, they are long gone. I believe I did put it back together correctly, but the first pic in the link is how I have it together, top of the cart is on the left. The second pic is the boards flipped over in the same places.

I thought my soldering skills were acceptable, I have done some more difficult mods with no issues. Namely NeoVGA and GCVideo mods. However, looking at the pics, I'm not so impressed with my work. Pic 9 looks like I may have the iron too hot. But the vias are total through holes, not just surface pads, so I hope it will be ok. Should I try reflowing them? any other comments or suggestions?

https://imgur.com/a/5bk1Qae
 

pulstar

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My Ketsui cart looked a little like that first of all. I cleaned the cart edges, reseated the cart a couple of times and it's been perfect since.
 

tighecg

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I have cleaned it quite a few times so far, but I'll try again. I'll take a pink eraser to it this time. It seems like i have to press really hard on the cart to get it in the slot. Is that normal for PGM?
 

egg_sanwich

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These Chinese boots are pretty janky to begin with, make you you didn’t jostle any jumpers or anything like that
 

DaisyAge

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Have you double checked that all your new caps are in the right orientation? Also a quick reflow might be needed to get some of the solder to connect on top of the board underneath the caps. Some PCBs have a top and bottom trace to supply power to two different places.
 

ChuChu Flamingo

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I have cleaned it quite a few times so far, but I'll try again. I'll take a pink eraser to it this time. It seems like i have to press really hard on the cart to get it in the slot. Is that normal for PGM?

Mine is like that as well. Feels like you will break the thing.
 

_rm_

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These Chinese boots are pretty janky to begin with, make you you didn’t jostle any jumpers or anything like that

This!

Can you show a Picture of the parts side of the PCBs? I bet it's a hot mess...
 

tighecg

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Ok, I did a reflow and cleaned the edges. Then I decided to take a jewelers loupe and check pretty much everything. I found this

https://imgur.com/a/Dd2bs48

Without the loupe I probably would have never seen this. I assume this is a ceramic capacitor. The only two markings on it are '104' and '006'. the 104 is .1uF, but what is the 006 about? Can I replace this with any old ceramic cap, like a disk type? If not, what am I looking for when I search Digi-Key? And I guess the most important question, is this the actual cause of my problem? I haven't tested it yet, still at work, but I am expecting the same scrambled mess after finding this.

https://imgur.com/gallery/f32cVqf

_rm_, I think the pic you are looking for is in the link in the third post

DaisyAge, I did that too.

ChuChu, is it just the Cave conversions that feel that way? Are the legit carts just as tough to get in?

Thanks egg, good suggestion
 

ChuChu Flamingo

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Very good catch there

Yeah I have two official carts and they are both tight to put in. I haven't had much experience with ceramic capacitors but they usually have codes to signify their values.

http://www.robotoid.com/appnotes/electronics-capacitor-markings.html

If ordering from digikey/mouser grab a axial version for their footprint.

Not sure what the 006 means. It might just be a date code or a tolerance. Maybe someone else can chime in.
 

Neo Alec

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ChuChu, is it just the Cave conversions that feel that way? Are the legit carts just as tough to get in?

Thanks egg, good suggestion
Did you buy these from sheep_nova on ebay?

I just use Deoxit D5 to clean the edges on my carts.

Try watching Scarlet Sprites video about these conversions on Youtube. The video has shots of all the boards.
 
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egg_sanwich

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Yes, all carts are extremely snug to fit in. I’ve owned multiple mobos and carts and it’s always the same.

Also, there’s a lot of knowledge on these boot carts over on a certain forum that shall not be named... might be worth checking out.
 

DaisyAge

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Disregard the 006. If it's marked 104 then it is a 0.1uF capacitor and any ceramic capacitor at that rating will work. But if you're going for a proper replacement it looks like an axial MLCC, good luck
 

tighecg

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Did you buy these from sheep_nova on ebay?

I just use Deoxit D5 to clean the edges on my carts.

Try watching Scarlet Sprites video about these conversions on Youtube. The video has shots of all the boards.

I did get it from sheep_nova, he seems like a good guy. Great communication, he answered all my questions and requests. He got me what I asked for, and great shipping. I'm not sure of his rep, but I had a great experience with him.

I have watched Scarlet Sprites a number of times, decent content creator. My boards didn't match his exactly, I think I'm missing a few chips his had. But everything I do have matches his.

Also, there’s a lot of knowledge on these boot carts over on a certain forum that shall not be named... might be worth checking out.

I was gonna head over there if I couldn't work it out here, I just prefer to stay in one place. Like a battered wife who can't leave an abusive husband.

If I decide to dive deeper into Cave stuff I'll probably go over there, but I don't really see me doing that. I don't have much interest in the other two carts. I would really like to get Daifukkatsu, but I am not paying for that, emulation is fine.

Disregard the 006. If it's marked 104 then it is a 0.1uF capacitor and any ceramic capacitor at that rating will work. But if you're going for a proper replacement it looks like an axial MLCC, good luck

Thanks for this info, the only reason I brought up the disk type is because I have them readily available to me. I'm going to put one in tonight, and if it works, I'll order the proper parts tomorrow.
 

tighecg

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Well, the disk cap didn't change anything, but they are pretty old caps. I'll try ordering the MLCCs and see what happens.

I think I will be heading over to the unnamed site and plead with the natives for their wisdom as well.
 

awbacon

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Just for the hell of it, grab a fiber optic cleaning pen. I've had carts / pcb's where I swore up and down I'd cleaned the contacts perfectly. Isopropyl, pink eraser...you name it. Few passes of the fiber optic pen and magically they booted like new.

I'd never even heard of these things till my father in law told me about them. They are like magic. Just go easy...too much and you'll go clean through the contacts
 

tighecg

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Just for the hell of it, grab a fiber optic cleaning pen. I've had carts / pcb's where I swore up and down I'd cleaned the contacts perfectly. Isopropyl, pink eraser...you name it. Few passes of the fiber optic pen and magically they booted like new.

I'd never even heard of these things till my father in law told me about them. They are like magic. Just go easy...too much and you'll go clean through the contacts

I'll check that out, thanks. Over the last few days I have been reading a thread somewhere else that is super long, haven't found anything useful yet. A long time ago, a cap broke in my NES Gyruss cart, I tried replacing it, and that cart never worked again. I don't think I will be working on carts any more. WTF is the deal with these caps?
 

ChuChu Flamingo

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Hard to say if that was the only problem with that NES cart. Assuming everything else worked it should be as simple as making sure you solder it in right and making sure the cap replacement µF was the same, voltage same or higher.

One thing I don't see mentioned when replacing capacitors online is their ESR. Most of the time lower is better but sometimes circuits are built with certain resistances in mind. In 95% of applications doing this is fine. Switching mode power supplies and other certain key areas is where you really need these low ESR caps (these are usually ultra low ESR caps though).

But on standard stuff like arcade boards etc? It is hard to say the effects. You would need an oscilloscope and a lot of time to verify.Most of the time you'll be fine. But if you do a quick google on "replace capacitors with low esr" you'll get a few corner cases that will make you think otherwise.
 
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DaisyAge

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I'll check that out, thanks. Over the last few days I have been reading a thread somewhere else that is super long, haven't found anything useful yet. A long time ago, a cap broke in my NES Gyruss cart, I tried replacing it, and that cart never worked again. I don't think I will be working on carts any more. WTF is the deal with these caps?

I had a MK1 Gensis cart that wouldn't boot no matter what so I replaced the capacitor and no change. I took the cap out replaced it again and then it was fine. Same cap and everything.
 

tighecg

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I had a MK1 Gensis cart that wouldn't boot no matter what so I replaced the capacitor and no change. I took the cap out replaced it again and then it was fine. Same cap and everything.

That's strange, but I'll give it a shot. I ordered a different game to test the mobo also. I don't really think that is the issue, but it was bothering me. I'm starting to get the feeling I'm going to have to reprogram one of the roms. Just a gut feeling. I don't think i have the equipment for that, and i have never done it before. Would the programmer from the Nesmakers kit work?
 
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