Graphical glitches on an AES Rental unit

[SKATERR]

Hello, good morning!

I bought a Neo Geo AES Rental unit (serial 3159) and I have two problems. Here is a photo of the board (aesthetically it looks very good: no dirt, rust, etc.):

PROBLEM 1: Horizontal lines appear in the image, specifically in the same areas where graphic elements are present. This is very noticeable against a black background with light-colored elements (such as white text); while the effect is less pronounced during actual gameplay, it still appears. It is particularly noticeable when connecting the AES using a shielded RGB cable from Retro Gaming Cables UK + Framemeister upscaler, and a Sony flat-screen display:


If I connect the AES directly to another TV using the original AV (composite) cable (without an upscaler), the effect seems to disappear on dark screens, though it persists, albeit much less noticeably:



Is it a problem with the capacitors?

PROBLEM 2:
I've tested the machine with three games; everything is fine with *Dunk Dream* and *Raguy*, but I've noticed this problem (lines of black dots) with *Sonic Wings 2*.



The issue only appears on certain screens during the intro; for instance, there is another sequence featuring tanks where no glitches occur. On the title screen, while it cycles through different gameplay previews, the glitch only appears in one of them (the last photo above, showing the B-2); the other two previews are glitch-free. I haven't seen these vertical lines of black dots during actual gameplay, either.

I’ve also noticed that if I leave the console on for about 10 minutes, the lines gradually disappear as the unit warms up (on the pilot screen, the lines vanish; on the aircraft screen, one line remains; and on the B-2 screen, about four lines remain).

I reflowed every pin on the LSPC-A0 chip and checked for continuity between each pin and its corresponding board pad using a multimeter; everything checked out. I found a reference to the same problem at (https://wiki.neogeodev.org/index.php/Graphic_glitches), but it doesn't explain how to fix it, it simply states: "If the dotted pattern doesn't cover the whole screen, either PRO-B0 or PRO-C0 may be dead.". Should I touch up the solder joints on the PRO-B0 and PRO-C0 chips?

Thanks!

 

[Dr. Jigglin]

Have you tried another power supply? Maybe get yourself one of the Triad AC adapters, they are good quality.

 

[SKATERR]

Have you tried another power supply? Maybe get yourself one of the Triad AC adapters, they are good quality.

Hi!

Currently, I only have a genuine 5V, 3-amp Pro-Pow power supply. The console came with a Pro-Pow3, but that outputs 11V and isn't the original unit it shipped with, so I haven't tested it for safety reasons.

Using a multimeter, I was able to verify that a stable 5V supply reaches the unit while the game is running (checking pin 8 on controller port 1).

 

[slugger_dan]

I had the same dot pattern on a newer revision and it was just a bad trace from LSPC to the B1 chip. Same issue with the pattern coming and going and not covering the whole screen. Pressing on a certain part of the board would get rid of the dots temporarily. There's group of 4 traces named WE1-4, CK1-4 and one of those was bad. The same groups of 4 are on the LSPC-A0 with slightly different names, maybe check if those traces are good to the other PRO chips.

Also, how's the condition of the shell on your system? I have a 3k serial one too, works fine but the top shell isn't holding up well. At some point 2 of the screw posts broke off and somehow a crack formed from the back towards the cart slot, and I've always been careful with handling it. Feels kind of cheap and brittle compared to my later consoles. The shell colour, font of the MEMORY CARD text and other details are different too. I don't know if there was a manufacturing change before it stopped being a rental only system but definitely seems different.

 

[SKATERR]

I had the same dot pattern on a newer revision and it was just a bad trace from LSPC to the B1 chip. Same issue with the pattern coming and going and not covering the whole screen. Pressing on a certain part of the board would get rid of the dots temporarily. There's group of 4 traces named WE1-4, CK1-4 and one of those was bad. The same groups of 4 are on the LSPC-A0 with slightly different names, maybe check if those traces are good to the other PRO chips.

Also, how's the condition of the shell on your system? I have a 3k serial one too, works fine but the top shell isn't holding up well. At some point 2 of the screw posts broke off and somehow a crack formed from the back towards the cart slot, and I've always been careful with handling it. Feels kind of cheap and brittle compared to my later consoles. The shell colour, font of the MEMORY CARD text and other details are different too. I don't know if there was a manufacturing change before it stopped being a rental only system but definitely seems different.

I’ll check the pins on the B0 chip, but I don't think it's the same issue in my case, since the black dots disappear after 10 minutes (without touching the board at all). I imagine that if it were a damaged trace, it wouldn't work even after several minutes had passed.

The exterior casing looks brand new; it’s seen very little use. I haven't seen anything cracked or broken on the inside, either.

 

[venchia3]

Might be then that the hypothetical damaged trace is kind of still holding on somehow and activates when the system generates some heat.

Is sonic wings 2 the only cart giving you issues also? Looks like it from your post…no issues with the other games in your possession?

 

[ShootTheCore]

The issues with the lines disappearing as the console warms up is likely a loose pin on one of the three surface mount ICs. Currently, a leg is disconnected from it's pad on the board, but as the chip heats up, it expands and pushes the leg into position on the pad. Reflowing the solder on the ICs should fix it.

The jailbars or brightness you see with your shielded cables are likely related to the capacitors in your console and AC adapter all being original and dried out. Recap them all.

 

[SKATERR]

Might be then that the hypothetical damaged trace is kind of still holding on somehow and activates when the system generates some heat.

Is sonic wings 2 the only cart giving you issues also? Looks like it from your post…no issues with the other games in your possession?

Yes, I’ve been able to test three games so far (*Raguy* and *Dunk Dream*), and I haven't seen any glitches in those two. As for *Sonic Wings 2*, I only noticed graphical glitches on the intro screens and—out of the three gameplay clips shown on the title screen—in just one of them.

The issues with the lines disappearing as the console warms up is likely a loose pin on one of the three surface mount ICs. Currently, a leg is disconnected from it's pad on the board, but as the chip heats up, it expands and pushes the leg into position on the pad. Reflowing the solder on the ICs should fix it.

The jailbars or brightness you see with your shielded cables are likely related to the capacitors in your console and AC adapter all being original and dried out. Recap them all.

PROBLEM 1:



I have gone over every pin of LTSC, PRO-B0, and PRO-C0 with the soldering iron:
View attachment IMG_6993.jpeg

Following the references from:

PRO-C0 - NeoGeo Development Wiki

wiki.neogeodev.org

PRO-B0 - NeoGeo Development Wiki

wiki.neogeodev.org

LSPC-A0 - NeoGeo Development Wiki

wiki.neogeodev.org

I have also checked the continuity between the three chips and the pins:

Signal	LSPC-A0​	PRO-B0​	PRO-C0​
CK1	133​	134​	105​
CK2	134​	122​	106​
CK3	135​	128​	107​
CK4	136​	116​	108​
LD1	115​	110​	109​
LD2	116​	109​	110​

and:

58BG1: LSPC 137 ↔ PRO-C0 123
58BG2: LSPC 138 ↔ PRO-C0 126
58CHG: LSPC 117 ↔ PRO-B0 108 ↔ PRO-C0 112

Everything is in order. If I leave the console running for about 10 minutes, the number of lines with black dots decreases:

1. On the fighter pilot's screen, they disappear completely.
2. On the screen showing the two fighters attacking the tank, only one line remains.
3. On the B2 gameplay screen, the lines on the right remain, while several on the left disappear.

I tried using a cold air gun on the PRO-B0 chip and the lines reappeared; if I repeat the process but aim only at the PRO-C0 chip, the same thing happens. I'm not sure what the next step would be...

PROBLEM 2:

I have replaced these capacitors:

- Composite connection, on a flat-screen TV without an upscaler:
1.- The black background remains correct, without lighter lines.
2.- The images now look good, without the horizontal lines that used to align with the "Game Over" text (see the images where I point out the problem with red arrows in the first post).

- Composite connection, on a flat-screen TV with a Framemeister:
1.- The black background looks correct, without lighter horizontal background lines.
2.- The images now look good.

- RGB connection, on a flat-screen TV with a Framemeister:
1.- The black background has improved, though some lighter background lines are still visible.
2.- The images now look good.

I am not sure if another capacitor needs replacing, or if this is an issue involving the interaction between this specific AES version, the upscaler, and the RGB signal.

Thanks!

 

[lampje]

Its some kind of distortion and since you don`t have the problems with composite.
I think you should look at the output stage of the RGB.
The 2 74ls273 under the resistors and the 74ls05 above the resistors are responsible for that.
But the reaction to heat and cold might indicate a break.
What happens when you touch the board in some places?.

 

[slugger_dan]

I tried using a cold air gun on the PRO-B0 chip and the lines reappeared; if I repeat the process but aim only at the PRO-C0 chip, the same thing happens. I'm not sure what the next step would be...

Is 58WE1/2/3/4 good too? In my case though every game had these dots, wasn't just one. Sounds like only Sonic Wings 2 has this issue for you. That cart works fine in your other consoles?

 

[SKATERR]

Hi!

I’ve been able to run some more tests:

1.- As I mentioned before, if I wait about 10 minutes, some lines disappear as it warms up (reaching approximately 35 degrees).
2.- If I isolate the PRO-B0 chip and apply cold air using a heat gun (on the cool setting), the lines reappear.
3.- If I bring a soldering iron close to the PRO-B0 chip, causing it to heat up, most of the lines disappear—and they do so faster than in step 1.
4.- I performed another reflow to ensure all the pins were properly soldered (there was no improvement; the fault remained the same).
5.- I checked for continuity on most of the chip's pins using a multimeter, and continuity is present.
6.- I tested *Raguy*, *Street Hope*, *Metal Slug 3*, *Baseball 2020*, and *Galaxy Fight*, and I didn't see the lines in any of those games. I only encountered the issue with *Sonic Wings 2*. This game works perfectly, as I tested it on another AES console (with a serial number above 200,000) and it showed no errors. I’ve only seen the black lines on the screens shown in my first post—specifically during the game's intro. I played for a while, and during actual gameplay, those glitches only appear when the "B2" screen shows up (which is the same screen that appears during the title sequence when various gameplay clips cycle through if you don't press Start).

Based on these tests, I assume the problem lies within the chip itself; are the internal traces damaged, and should I replace it with another one?.

The issue with the RGB signal was resolved by replacing the capacitors; I tested the console on a CRT TV using an RGB cable, and the background appears black, without any lighter horizontal lines (I imagine it's a compatibility issue between that AES version (with the factory RGB signal) and the Framemeister upscaler.).

 

[Neo Alec]

Double check all the traces in that area around the PRO-B0 chip. Otherwise, yeah, sounds like you need to replace the chip.

 

[lampje]

Like i said before what happens if you touch the board?.
If a trace is broken the signal is weak and it will pickup the signal that is coming from your body.
If you come close to the break the distortion should get worse.

 

[SKATERR]

Like i said before what happens if you touch the board?.
If a trace is broken the signal is weak and it will pickup the signal that is coming from your body.
If you come close to the break the distortion should get worse.

Sorry, but which parts should I press to check what you're describing? In any case, I assume that can't be the problem if the device starts working just by applying heat to the chip, right?

 

[lampje]

Sorry, but which parts should I press to check what you're describing? In any case, I assume that can't be the problem if the device starts working just by applying heat to the chip, right?

Just everywhere on the top of the board. If a trace is bad it will pick up the signal from your body.
The pro co and neo b0 hardly go bad from what i read.
Its more likely that its a logic chip or broken trace.
But if there is no response from touching the board and there are no logic chips there in between you could be right.
If its only one game i would think the game is the faulty than you have to look for the CR traces if a signal is weak or missing on the game itself.